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On September 27 2011 14:11 NATO wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 11:25 Adrenalinz wrote:On September 27 2011 08:52 NATO wrote:
How do you deal with 3gate immortal allin? And don't say 1/1/1, because I don't want to change my opening just assuming the worst. Bunkers + marines are always a safe bet. You can never hurt yourself by making too many marines, and you can make them from whatever build you prefer (unless it is something completely unorthodox). Beauty of bunkers is that not only do they become invincible with 6 scvs repairing per bunker, but you can always refund them. This is only true for early game, as 6 scvs may not be able to repair a bunker fast enough later on. If you have managed to wall off your natural with 3 bunkers + a couple of depos, you'll be in good shape, at least up to plat (which is where I am). See if this helps you. Bunkers are made of holy granite, they are great at holding most all-ins. Random tip: Your first marine can be used to run around the map, looking for stuff. As you get more marines, you can create a small squad of 4 guys just running around and clearing towers to grant you vision. Early game scouting parties like these are not only effective (at least for scouting all ins) but they are also fun to use. Just be careful. You don't want to lose those guys. 1) Force field - so no scv repair 2) I'm not talking about 4gate. I'm talking immortal allin. As in 50 instant damage. Immortals kill bunkers so fast. I do a 1 rax marauder expand, which is much safer to scout/get vision/clean up early stuff since stalkers won't kill everything.
I would advise always getting 3 bunkers if Protoss is delaying expanding, or not expanding at all. He will not have that many forcefields if he is getting a robo and immortals so realistically he will not be able to forcefield everything + guardian shield except for maybe really tight chokes. If he blows all his forcefields to break the bunkers pull what you can back and pull SCVs to buffer. Assuming you started researching stim early (which you should) marine & marauder with a bunch of SCVs in front will at least be able to drive him off and with conc. shells probably pick several units off. I would not hedge my bets on defending this without stim
Target marines on immortals when possible and have SCVs on or moving to your bunkers before he is attacking them (so SCOUT where his units are as often as possible). Remember to stim the units you have in bunkers. Scout and kill super aggressive pylons if you can
This is general stuff, in the absence of a replay
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Are you guys still going 12 rax 13 gas 15 oc after the patch?I've tested 11 rax 13 gas 16 oc and apparently the oc starts at the same time but the marine pops out a couple seconds earlier. I don't know if i'm missing something or now its just better.
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Blazinghand
United States25559 Posts
On September 28 2011 01:58 maskseller wrote:
Are you guys still going 12 rax 13 gas 15 oc after the patch?I've tested 11 rax 13 gas 16 oc and apparently the oc starts at the same time but the marine pops out a couple seconds earlier. I don't know if i'm missing something or now its just better.
11 rax is sub-optimal because you need to cut an scv to get your rax out on 11. I'd recommend 12 rax 13 gas 16 OC or 12 rax 13 gas 15 OC (cuts half an scv to get 15 OC).
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My TvT needs help... i thought my TvP was bad but this... it's just terrible, could someone take a look a my most recent TvT and tell me the good and the bad thing i did. Here a link to the replay.
http://sc2rep.com/replays/(T)Dilheisha_vs_(T)DarthVapor/13966
When i took the banshee down i was happy and i told myself i was now ahead ... maybe that where it started.
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Not sure if this is the best place to put this,
I am very new to SC2 and the fourms, so Hi 
Anyway, i was looking around for a good TvX build and found the 3rax,
Is this still the best TvX build, and what is the optimal build order for it?
Thanks
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Blazinghand
United States25559 Posts
On September 28 2011 04:25 Bladin407 wrote:Not sure if this is the best place to put this, I am very new to SC2 and the fourms, so Hi Anyway, i was looking around for a good TvX build and found the 3rax, Is this still the best TvX build, and what is the optimal build order for it? Thanks
3 rax stim allin is sub-optimal TvX due to the lack of followup, and the weakness of this build against: bunkers/tank rush in TvT, lots of ling/bane in TvZ, and forcefields in TvP. You want a build that has a solid mid-game plan.
I'd consider the "best" TvX build to be something that gets a fast expand and plenty of static defenses. This will let you enter the mid-game with a solid economy and plenty of units to defend aggression. Let me recommend you:
The 2 Rax 3 Bunker FE
Developed here by Synystyr: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=185963
Build order:
10 Depot
12 Barracks
14 Barracks (2)
16 Depot
15 Orbital Command
~22-24 Command Center -> Orbital when finished
25 Refinery x2
25 Depot (cut marines at ~24-25 until depot is finished. Should have 7 at this point.)
27 Bunker x3
Video Tutorial
In this video, I go over the basics of how to learn a build order, in this case, 2 rax 3 bunker FE.
On twitch.tv: http://www.twitch.tv/blazinghand/b/294524697
Embedded video (youtube)
+ Show Spoiler +
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On September 28 2011 04:25 Bladin407 wrote:Not sure if this is the best place to put this, I am very new to SC2 and the fourms, so Hi Anyway, i was looking around for a good TvX build and found the 3rax, Is this still the best TvX build, and what is the optimal build order for it? Thanks
Hey, welcome! 
Hmm, I'm not so sure about the 3 rax. It was a strong build 6 months ago but things have changed. If you mean the 3 rax where you push out with stim and grab an expansion at the same time I don't think it's something to really rely on. Stimpack takes alot longer to research now, building time on Barracks have been changed and people have gotten alot better just in general.
I don't play this strat myself so I don't know for sure, maybe someone else have tried?
I would suggest to try out these strats and really practice them so you can them flawless:
TvZ:
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Reactor_Hellion_Expand_(vs._Zerg)
TvT:
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/1Rax_1Fact_1Port
TvP:
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/1_Rax_FE
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awesome! Thanks so much
People like you really help us newbies out, its nice
I will be trying these builds out tonight
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@ Blazinghand, what should I go into after this opening?
Thanks fer all the help
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Blazinghand
United States25559 Posts
On September 28 2011 04:50 Bladin407 wrote:
@ Blazinghand, what should I go into after this opening?
Thanks fer all the help
In TvT, and TvZ, get up to 3 rax (2 reactors, 1 tech lab), 1 factory with tech lab, and 1 reactor starport. Make marines, tanks, and medivac/vikings. In TvT you'll want more vikings and just a few medivacs, in TvZ you'll want mostly medivacs unless you see broodlords. Add more 2 more rax and 1 more factory every time you take a new base.
In TvP, get up to 4 rax (3 tech lab, 1 reactor), and 1 reactor starport (factory is idle). Make marines, marauders/ghosts, and medivacs/vikings. Make mostly marauders and medivacs, but make vikings if you see colossus, or ghosts if you see high templars, archons, or immortals. Add on several rax every time you take a new base.
In all matchups, get 2 engineering bays and double-upgrade your infantry, and get an armory at some point to get more infantry upgrades. In TvT and TvZ, vehicle weapons can help. In TvP, getting 1 or 2 Air Weapons is useful if your opponent is going colossus- it'll give your vikings an extra punch.
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On September 28 2011 02:09 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2011 01:58 maskseller wrote:
Are you guys still going 12 rax 13 gas 15 oc after the patch?I've tested 11 rax 13 gas 16 oc and apparently the oc starts at the same time but the marine pops out a couple seconds earlier. I don't know if i'm missing something or now its just better. 11 rax is sub-optimal because you need to cut an scv to get your rax out on 11. I'd recommend 12 rax 13 gas 16 OC or 12 rax 13 gas 15 OC (cuts half an scv to get 15 OC).
You recover that scv before you start the oc. You only lose some seconds. This are the resulting times:
11rax 1:27
12 gas 1:44
15 marine 2:32
16 oc 2:43
o
12 rax 1:34
13 gas 1:49
15-16 marine 2:39
15-16 oc 2:39
I guess working on mineral splitting these timings could improve. The oc is delayed 4 seconds (before the 1.4 it would have been 9 right?) asuming you dont cut any scvs but you get faster gas and a 7 second's faster marine.
That faster marine obviously leads to a quite earlier reaper.
Am i doing something wrong?
ps: why do you need to cut a scv to do a 12-13-15oc?
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Blazinghand
United States25559 Posts
On September 28 2011 05:22 maskseller wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2011 02:09 Blazinghand wrote:On September 28 2011 01:58 maskseller wrote:
Are you guys still going 12 rax 13 gas 15 oc after the patch?I've tested 11 rax 13 gas 16 oc and apparently the oc starts at the same time but the marine pops out a couple seconds earlier. I don't know if i'm missing something or now its just better. 11 rax is sub-optimal because you need to cut an scv to get your rax out on 11. I'd recommend 12 rax 13 gas 16 OC or 12 rax 13 gas 15 OC (cuts half an scv to get 15 OC). You recover that scv before you start the oc. You only lose some seconds. This are the resulting times: 11rax 1:27 12 gas 1:44 15 marine 2:32 16 oc 2:43 o 12 rax 1:34 13 gas 1:49 15-16 marine 2:39 15-16 oc 2:39 I guess working on mineral splitting these timings could improve. The oc is delayed 4 seconds (before the 1.4 it would have been 9 right?) asuming you dont cut any scvs but you get faster gas and a 7 second's faster marine. That faster marine obviously leads to a quite earlier reaper. Am i doing something wrong? ps: why do you need to cut a scv to do a 12-13-15oc?
Any time you're ever not making scvs out of your CC/OC (aside from the transforming time) I consider to be cutting scvs. You never "make back" a cut scv-- so I try to avoid these at all times. If you make an 11 rax, you have to briefly halt scv production while at 11 supply to save up for a rax. Unless you're doing an 11/11 2-rax attack, this is generally inadvisable. As a general rule, baring specific circumstances, try to always be making scvs, and thereby cut no scvs.
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Blazinghand
United States25559 Posts
Okay, I've got to go to the gym and run some general life errands, but in about 3 hours I'll take a look at that and making a video and write up some notes for you and the others who've posted replays since yesterday.
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Thanks Blazinghand... your too good to the community lol.
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Blazinghand
United States25559 Posts
Coaching Notepad 9/27/2011
Today: tommyyy, Dilheisha, IMOrchid.
On September 28 2011 02:23 Dilheisha wrote:My TvT needs help... i thought my TvP was bad but this... it's just terrible, could someone take a look a my most recent TvT and tell me the good and the bad thing i did. Here a link to the replay. http://sc2rep.com/replays/(T)Dilheisha_vs_(T)DarthVapor/13966When i took the banshee down i was happy and i told myself i was now ahead ... maybe that where it started.
Hi Dilheisha,
I took a look at your replay and made a Coaching VoD:
http://www.twitch.tv/blazinghand/b/296152176
Some non-comprehensive written notes:
1) make more than 1 marine at start for safety against scouting reapers and to deny scv scouts
2) keep vikings in airspace rather than at front, so that they can be useful early on
3) when moving your army around on the map, make sure to keep on macroing. You let your opponent catch up on food while controlling your army, cutting probably 3-4 production cycles of starport and factory units.
On September 27 2011 13:51 IMOrchid wrote:Hey guys, I was playing a TvP against a Masters player... I'm gold so don't expect me to be great, but how could I have improved my play? In the final engagement, I had 185/200 with ghosts coming out right at the end of the battle and he was maxed with 4 collosi standard deathball.... idk what to do 
Hi IMOrchid,
I took a look at your replay and made a Coaching VoD:
http://www.twitch.tv/blazinghand/b/296152735
Some non-comprehensive written notes:
1) 2 rax presssure expo is a good build
2) I like to wait until after 3 marines to make reactor (for safety) but on cross positions this is ok
3) when you see 1 gate expo, you can go kill him, but you sort of hung out for a bit and didn't push quickly enough; his warpgates had been fairly finished by the time you arrived.
4) against a greedy 1 gate expo it is acceptable to pull scvs
5) don't go so close to his ramp when attacking
6) he won the game due to economic advantage from a faster expo and from not having to make units after your army died.
Tommyyy wrote:
@ the one i played against the protoss, he had such a weird BO that i thought hes just gonna go 2 gate zealot push, put didnt happend^^ so i messed up my BO abit.
storms are crashing me, i should've get more ghosts out but i dont know, i didnt even won one game with terran :/
Hi Tommyyy,
I took a look at your replays and made a Coaching VoD:
http://www.twitch.tv/blazinghand/b/296154239
Some non-comprehensive written notes:
TvP:
1) zealots can't catch scvs, leave your scout in there if it's just zealot
2) dropship flew past your tower, you have to catch that
3) use medivacs to drop for map control
3.5) take your third earlier, and saturate it earlier by transferring scvs
4) after you won the big fight at 20:00, that's your cue to take more bases.
5) at 22:30 you should be winning, but you're banking 3k minerals. use additional expos and barracks to deal with this
6) at 27:00 you were gonna be a little behind anyways, but you're super behind because you're banking 6000 minerals
TvT:
you reasonably think it's banshee due to 2x gas, quick factory
however, it's tank rush. how do we tell this apart? usually I use 3rd mule as scan instead of 2nd mule, scanning around 6:30 ish, when it's clear what's going on.
you manage to scout it later
your opponent gets close and sieges up, and his army is too big.
heres a good rule for holding off this sort of thing: after hellion #6 or so, try to focus on tanks and marines, and try to takes gasses 3 and 4 ASAP so you can get a few tanks up.
furthermore, keep on making units, hellions and vespene geysers, etc at home while doing your drop or microing your units-- your money climbed quite a bit during your (pretty effective) hellion harass
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Recently, i've seen alot of pro's go for the really early 3rd CC/orbital. Its before all production is up and running of course, but does anybody know which builds are good to open with to get that fast 3rd? Also, whats a good timing to drop the third CC? Before the 3rd/4th gas at the natural? Or is there a build where you could drop it after your first gas?
To add to this, what ladder maps do you think a fast third CC/orbital would be viable on? I'm thinking Antiga is obvious, but do the rocks on Taldarim hinder the speed too much? Of course, there are other maps but those two strike me as fast third maps.
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@Kenkou, which matchup? All of them?
@Blazinghand, I was planning to take a closer look at my TvZ but my latest TvZ games have the same problem: I'm winning, and I'm winning because my opponent plays terribly (high diamond zerg that I use as my practice partner... he doesn't play that well when he has played 25 ladder games earlier the same day and is sick, lol).
What's your opinion of analyzing your victories? I see a ton of bad things even in the games I win, so... I feel like it's a decent idea.
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On September 28 2011 18:52 Maxie wrote:
@Kenkou, which matchup? All of them?
@Blazinghand, I was planning to take a closer look at my TvZ but my latest TvZ games have the same problem: I'm winning, and I'm winning because my opponent plays terribly (high diamond zerg that I use as my practice partner... he doesn't play that well when he has played 25 ladder games earlier the same day and is sick, lol).
What's your opinion of analyzing your victories? I see a ton of bad things even in the games I win, so... I feel like it's a decent idea.
Oh, forgot to include the matchup sorry. It would be TvZ.
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On September 28 2011 19:01 kenkou wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2011 18:52 Maxie wrote:
@Kenkou, which matchup? All of them?
@Blazinghand, I was planning to take a closer look at my TvZ but my latest TvZ games have the same problem: I'm winning, and I'm winning because my opponent plays terribly (high diamond zerg that I use as my practice partner... he doesn't play that well when he has played 25 ladder games earlier the same day and is sick, lol).
What's your opinion of analyzing your victories? I see a ton of bad things even in the games I win, so... I feel like it's a decent idea. Oh, forgot to include the matchup sorry. It would be TvZ.
Well, what I've seen Thorzain do is reactor hellion expand into double CC into sick spoon terran macro style with lots of upgrades. You're weak to early roach attacks by doing so, though... but if you react properly to that and then go into marine/tank/medivac 2base -> claim third -> macro like hell, you should be pretty strong in the midgame.
I wouldn't do it on small maps, maps with hard to defend thirds, or possibly not on maps with a rock blocking the third (depends on how fast you want to claim the third).
Just make sure that you have the army to take and hold that expansion though, no point in claiming it if you can't defend it.
I'll try finding a sample match, don't know if its one of the free to watch ones though.
Edit: http://www.gomtv.net/2011gstls1/vod/66016#loginPopFoucs
I'm not 100% certain if its that game since I watched it during the two days you could watch everything for free... but it's a Thorzain TvZ on Antiga Shipyard where Thorzain spawns bottom left and the zerg either top right or top left.
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EPT
