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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
On September 16 2011 20:34 KenDM wrote:
Hey Blazinghand what's up, sleep tight!
On another (Dutch) forum people are being annoying telling me I need to work on my macro a lot more. My arguments to continue learning more about scouting and enemy unit composition were:
As my mathematics teacher once said: It takes 20% of your time to understand 80% of your work, and 80% of the time to perfect that last 20%.
In other words, I don't think I'm losing a lot of games because of a bad macro anymore. I think (might not actually be true) that my macro is on par with the rest of my league. So I was thinking of having practice partners point out builds of the opponent and how to react to those.
You've seen a couple of my replays now haven't you, what do you think? I know that my macro always needs heavy attention since I keep forgetting to produce during battles, or during late-game or positioning of my army. I intend to making those steps better as I go, because my "perfect" macro could be thrown off by a surprise attack, but if I anticipate that attack, I'd be better prepared macro-wise as well.
What are your thoughts on what to focus on?
Personally I when I switched over to Terran I just did one build order every matchup and played like a robot to up my mechanics. However I already had a decent understand of the game so this might not be optimal. Just look at your replays after each game and try pinpoint any common errors. Those are the ones you want to focus on first. After that it's up to you.
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Blazinghand
United States25553 Posts
On September 16 2011 20:34 KenDM wrote:
Hey Blazinghand what's up, sleep tight!
On another (Dutch) forum people are being annoying telling me I need to work on my macro a lot more. My arguments to continue learning more about scouting and enemy unit composition were:
As my mathematics teacher once said: It takes 20% of your time to understand 80% of your work, and 80% of the time to perfect that last 20%.
In other words, I don't think I'm losing a lot of games because of a bad macro anymore. I think (might not actually be true) that my macro is on par with the rest of my league. So I was thinking of having practice partners point out builds of the opponent and how to react to those.
You've seen a couple of my replays now haven't you, what do you think? I know that my macro always needs heavy attention since I keep forgetting to produce during battles, or during late-game or positioning of my army. I intend to making those steps better as I go, because my "perfect" macro could be thrown off by a surprise attack, but if I anticipate that attack, I'd be better prepared macro-wise as well.
What are your thoughts on what to focus on?
I think that at almost any point in your Sc2 career before you hit Master League, about half of your attention on "what to improve" should be on your macro.
For those at the low or medium level of play, macro is the most important skill to develop in Starcraft 2. Other skills like strategy, game sense and micro are all vital as well, but are contingent on a certain baseline level of macro to back it up, and without this level of macro you cannot win. However, pure macro alone will not win you all your games; you need a basic level of anticheese, and an understanding of how to control your units (ie, being sieged up, how to kill creep tumors and defend from mutas, etc). That being said, all skill levels being equal, macro is what you want to improve.
Macro shows, in broad strokes, where you are, and other skills only slightly refine that point. Macro is the 10s column on your speedometer and Micro is the 1s column; they can both make a difference but we all know which one is important. In this extended metaphor, I guess crisis management/anticheese is the clutch you use to start the car without stalling.
Any time you see a macro problem in your replay, make a note so you can fix it next time. Strive to have good macro in every game. Learn the other stuff, too-- but also learn Macro.
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On September 17 2011 00:13 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 20:34 KenDM wrote:
Hey Blazinghand what's up, sleep tight!
On another (Dutch) forum people are being annoying telling me I need to work on my macro a lot more. My arguments to continue learning more about scouting and enemy unit composition were:
As my mathematics teacher once said: It takes 20% of your time to understand 80% of your work, and 80% of the time to perfect that last 20%.
In other words, I don't think I'm losing a lot of games because of a bad macro anymore. I think (might not actually be true) that my macro is on par with the rest of my league. So I was thinking of having practice partners point out builds of the opponent and how to react to those.
You've seen a couple of my replays now haven't you, what do you think? I know that my macro always needs heavy attention since I keep forgetting to produce during battles, or during late-game or positioning of my army. I intend to making those steps better as I go, because my "perfect" macro could be thrown off by a surprise attack, but if I anticipate that attack, I'd be better prepared macro-wise as well.
What are your thoughts on what to focus on? I think that at almost any point in your Sc2 career before you hit Master League, about half of your attention on "what to improve" should be on your macro. For those at the low or medium level of play, macro is the most important skill to develop in Starcraft 2. Other skills like strategy, game sense and micro are all vital as well, but are contingent on a certain baseline level of macro to back it up, and without this level of macro you cannot win. However, pure macro alone will not win you all your games; you need a basic level of anticheese, and an understanding of how to control your units (ie, being sieged up, how to kill creep tumors and defend from mutas, etc). That being said, all skill levels being equal, macro is what you want to improve. Macro shows, in broad strokes, where you are, and other skills only slightly refine that point. Macro is the 10s column on your speedometer and Micro is the 1s column; they can both make a difference but we all know which one is important. In this extended metaphor, I guess crisis management/anticheese is the clutch you use to start the car without stalling. Any time you see a macro problem in your replay, make a note so you can fix it next time. Strive to have good macro in every game. Learn the other stuff, too-- but also learn Macro.
In the light of our previous posts I represent you a 9 minute replay of me getting warp prism raped @8 minutes 
I had higher production etc... but he had me. I need a better anti-cheese sense. I'm so hopeless...
http://drop.sc/35085
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Blazinghand
United States25553 Posts
On September 17 2011 00:21 KenDM wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2011 00:13 Blazinghand wrote:On September 16 2011 20:34 KenDM wrote:
Hey Blazinghand what's up, sleep tight!
On another (Dutch) forum people are being annoying telling me I need to work on my macro a lot more. My arguments to continue learning more about scouting and enemy unit composition were:
As my mathematics teacher once said: It takes 20% of your time to understand 80% of your work, and 80% of the time to perfect that last 20%.
In other words, I don't think I'm losing a lot of games because of a bad macro anymore. I think (might not actually be true) that my macro is on par with the rest of my league. So I was thinking of having practice partners point out builds of the opponent and how to react to those.
You've seen a couple of my replays now haven't you, what do you think? I know that my macro always needs heavy attention since I keep forgetting to produce during battles, or during late-game or positioning of my army. I intend to making those steps better as I go, because my "perfect" macro could be thrown off by a surprise attack, but if I anticipate that attack, I'd be better prepared macro-wise as well.
What are your thoughts on what to focus on? I think that at almost any point in your Sc2 career before you hit Master League, about half of your attention on "what to improve" should be on your macro. For those at the low or medium level of play, macro is the most important skill to develop in Starcraft 2. Other skills like strategy, game sense and micro are all vital as well, but are contingent on a certain baseline level of macro to back it up, and without this level of macro you cannot win. However, pure macro alone will not win you all your games; you need a basic level of anticheese, and an understanding of how to control your units (ie, being sieged up, how to kill creep tumors and defend from mutas, etc). That being said, all skill levels being equal, macro is what you want to improve. Macro shows, in broad strokes, where you are, and other skills only slightly refine that point. Macro is the 10s column on your speedometer and Micro is the 1s column; they can both make a difference but we all know which one is important. In this extended metaphor, I guess crisis management/anticheese is the clutch you use to start the car without stalling. Any time you see a macro problem in your replay, make a note so you can fix it next time. Strive to have good macro in every game. Learn the other stuff, too-- but also learn Macro. In the light of our previous posts I represent you a 9 minute replay of me getting warp prism raped @8 minutes I had higher production etc... but he had me. I need a better anti-cheese sense. I'm so hopeless... http://drop.sc/35085
Ok I got it, the best learning analogy. If playing is like making a good noodle soup, Macro is like the broth, and the other skills are like noodles and chicken and carrots and stuff. All of these need to be good, but if they're all pretty decent usually it's the broth that really can add flavor and goodness to the soup, and a bad broth can make the rest of the soup bad.
Crisis management is successfully microwaving it without burning yourself. If you lack this skill, you won't be able to enjoy your soup, but not because it was bad-- just due to related reasons.
I'll take a look at the replay in uh... 8 hours 
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Hi, Mid-Low Diamond here
need help in my recent losses
the 1st one being against Z
i know i lost the big engagement near the end of the game
two question is
1. how to prevent more miss positioning like that
2. given the supply count, i shouldnt lost that hard in the last encounter, but as a matter of fact i am, what went wrong at that last encounter ?
[url blocked]
the 2nd one is against a P
i have supply lead before the 1st big engagement both worker and army
but why cant i break his death ball given the supply lead
my army seems to melt so easily
what went wrong in the engagemeng
did i dont produce enough vikings ?
[url blocked]
im really frustrated by losing streak this week
maybe work just took my gaming sense a lot
i hope u guys can download drom megaupload
cause sc2replayed keep rejecting my replays and replayfu has unlimited load time
as other 2 web, im just too lazy to register
thx very much
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Blazinghand
United States25553 Posts
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Hi fellow terrans!
I love the race because it so easy to pull off great 1 base all-ins, especially vs zerg. I'm not very good but I often win vs zergs 2 leagues above me. I do scv marine rushes 50% of my zvt's. Also, maurauder/helion push is great. 2-port banshee is nice, but takes more time.
What's the most effective 1-base all-in that terran can do?
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In TvP, if your oponent is going for gate, cyber, robotics for fast immortales and u have a barrack and a factory with some tanks. You scan and you see the robotics with 3 immortals, what is the best way to transition? Swap factory for another rax and get stim and get more marines?
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On September 17 2011 05:37 GuiRao wrote:
In TvP, if your oponent is going for gate, cyber, robotics for fast immortales and u have a barrack and a factory with some tanks. You scan and you see the robotics with 3 immortals, what is the best way to transition? Swap factory for another rax and get stim and get more marines?
That situation seems very unlikely. In fact feels like pure theory crafting. I can't imagine a situation where he will have 3 immortals 1 base and you have "some tanks".
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Blazinghand
United States25553 Posts
On September 17 2011 05:37 GuiRao wrote:
In TvP, if your oponent is going for gate, cyber, robotics for fast immortales and u have a barrack and a factory with some tanks. You scan and you see the robotics with 3 immortals, what is the best way to transition? Swap factory for another rax and get stim and get more marines?
This sounds pretty vague. What time? Who's expoed? How does he have 3 immortals? Why are you going tanks in TvP?
If you upload the replay where this happened I can provide some help.
On September 17 2011 05:23 Hetz wrote:
Hi fellow terrans!
I love the race because it so easy to pull off great 1 base all-ins, especially vs zerg. I'm not very good but I often win vs zergs 2 leagues above me. I do scv marine rushes 50% of my zvt's. Also, maurauder/helion push is great. 2-port banshee is nice, but takes more time.
What's the most effective 1-base all-in that terran can do?
If you want to improve, you'll need to do something other than 1-base allins. However, the 1 base all-in that works in every matchup up to GM league is the 3 rax marine scv allin.
[G] (T) 3 racks : Cheesing your way to GM league
By Geiko
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=223517
This works in every match-up on every map except for Tal'Darim Altar. It is with great trepidation that I recommend it to you-- go learn the 2 rax 3 bunker expo if you truly want to get better:
The 2 Rax 3 Bunker FE
by Synystyr
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=185963
Build order:
10 Depot
12 Barracks
14 Barracks (2)
16 Depot
15 Orbital Command
~22-24 Command Center -> Orbital when finished
25 Refinery x2
25 Depot (cut marines at ~24-25 until depot is finished. Should have 7 at this point.)
27 Bunker x3
Video Tutorial
In this video, I go over the basics of how to learn a build order, in this case, 2 rax 3 bunker FE.
On twitch.tv: http://www.twitch.tv/blazinghand/b/294524697
Embedded video (youtube)
+ Show Spoiler +
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Blazinghand
United States25553 Posts
Alright I'm gonna grab some dinner then go to the gym then I'm totally gonna get all up on this replay, and the others posted here today.
Here's the problem with tanks:
Tanks are slow, and in siege mode they're very slow. They're good against Stalkers, Sentries, and High Templars, but bad against Chargelots, Immortals, and just OK against colossi. They are also vulnerable to air units and drops.
Terran when playing against Protoss relies on Marines and Marauders, who use a combination of stimpack and medivac to be mobile around the map and cause damage quickly. Usually the splash damage a Terran player gets is in the form of Ghosts, not Tanks, since ghosts are better able to keep up and don't deal friendly fire (which is liberally applied due to chargelot charge).
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On September 17 2011 07:00 Blazinghand wrote:Alright I'm gonna grab some dinner then go to the gym then I'm totally gonna get all up on this replay, and the others posted here today. Here's the problem with tanks: Tanks are slow, and in siege mode they're very slow. They're good against Stalkers, Sentries, and High Templars, but bad against Chargelots, Immortals, and just OK against colossi. They are also vulnerable to air units and drops. Terran when playing against Protoss relies on Marines and Marauders, who use a combination of stimpack and medivac to be mobile around the map and cause damage quickly. Usually the splash damage a Terran player gets is in the form of Ghosts, not Tanks, since ghosts are better able to keep up and don't deal friendly fire (which is liberally applied due to chargelot charge).
I just played against a protoss and win with marine tank. I don't think they are bad if the protoss is going gateway units right?
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Blazinghand
United States25553 Posts
On September 17 2011 07:13 GuiRao wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2011 07:00 Blazinghand wrote:Alright I'm gonna grab some dinner then go to the gym then I'm totally gonna get all up on this replay, and the others posted here today. Here's the problem with tanks: Tanks are slow, and in siege mode they're very slow. They're good against Stalkers, Sentries, and High Templars, but bad against Chargelots, Immortals, and just OK against colossi. They are also vulnerable to air units and drops. Terran when playing against Protoss relies on Marines and Marauders, who use a combination of stimpack and medivac to be mobile around the map and cause damage quickly. Usually the splash damage a Terran player gets is in the form of Ghosts, not Tanks, since ghosts are better able to keep up and don't deal friendly fire (which is liberally applied due to chargelot charge). I just played against a protoss and win with marine tank. I don't think they are bad if the protoss is going gateway units right?
Against a protoss player with just gateway units, Tanks are EXCELLENT. In fact, marine/tank is so strong against protoss with gateway units that the marine/tank/banshee 1 base all in is considered by many (but not me) to be too strong. However, most protoss players either get charge for their zealots, a robotics facility for immortals and colossi, or air units by the time they're on 2 bases, making tanks substantially harder to use.
There ARE ways to use tanks against Protoss, and some very skilled players (WannaBe comes to mind) do so at a professional level. I think that using bio units is easier and less map-dependent, but that's a personal opinion.
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I'd say siege tanks can be good up until around 10 minutes, then their value drops dramatically (colossi, larger amounts of immortals, chargelots, archons, etc).
Oh, and I'm having an issue with TvT again ;/ almost regardless of the exact opener, I'm having some issues with dumping my minerals when going for early siege tanks - you can only dump so much minerals with 1 rax 1 factory 1 starport, if you're going for siege tank production, and you donät really have the gas to put up more factories early on.... I'm just asking if a mineral float of 300-500 is acceptable or terrible when doing this kind of build, since my production is basically limited by my gas income at that point in one way or another...and once I do get 3-4 factories up and running, I can dump it decently quickly.
I just don't feel safe enough when opening with hellions, which causes this problem to arise - I'm going for mech so adding any raxes would be quite counter intuitive.
Edit: Maybe I'll just open hellions and work on my scouting/reaction...
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Blazinghand
United States25553 Posts
On September 17 2011 07:29 Maxie wrote:
I'd say siege tanks can be good up until around 10 minutes, then their value drops dramatically (colossi, larger amounts of immortals, chargelots, archons, etc).
Oh, and I'm having an issue with TvT again ;/ almost regardless of the exact opener, I'm having some issues with dumping my minerals when going for early siege tanks - you can only dump so much minerals with 1 rax 1 factory 1 starport, if you're going for siege tank production, and you donät really have the gas to put up more factories early on.... I'm just asking if a mineral float of 300-500 is acceptable or terrible when doing this kind of build, since my production is basically limited by my gas income at that point in one way or another...and once I do get 3-4 factories up and running, I can dump it decently quickly.
I just don't feel safe enough when opening with hellions, which causes this problem to arise - I'm going for mech so adding any raxes would be quite counter intuitive.
Edit: Maybe I'll just open hellions and work on my scouting/reaction...
I usually don't make tanks unless I need tanks, and use hellions to scout until my natural is up and i have access to more than 2 gasses. Try to start your 2nd gas as soon as you start your expo, so you can start spending that money. This will give you the gas you need (hopefully) for more factories and tech units.
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On September 17 2011 07:13 GuiRao wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2011 07:00 Blazinghand wrote:Alright I'm gonna grab some dinner then go to the gym then I'm totally gonna get all up on this replay, and the others posted here today. Here's the problem with tanks: Tanks are slow, and in siege mode they're very slow. They're good against Stalkers, Sentries, and High Templars, but bad against Chargelots, Immortals, and just OK against colossi. They are also vulnerable to air units and drops. Terran when playing against Protoss relies on Marines and Marauders, who use a combination of stimpack and medivac to be mobile around the map and cause damage quickly. Usually the splash damage a Terran player gets is in the form of Ghosts, not Tanks, since ghosts are better able to keep up and don't deal friendly fire (which is liberally applied due to chargelot charge). I just played against a protoss and win with marine tank. I don't think they are bad if the protoss is going gateway units right?
I use Marine/Tank against Protoss all the time. Tanks are still really good in TvP because the majority of the Protoss army is ground-based [armored]. You just need to be vigilant watching your army, and focus fire your Tanks on non-Zealots. Sure its risky because if they attack while you're looking somewhere else, your tanks will blow up all your Marines. And of course if they catch you unsieged you lose...but that's true in every matchup. Warp Prisms give me hell, but they're not that popular on the ladder...yet.
Tanks are actually pretty good vs Immortals if you micro them properly. Yeah hardened shield sucks, but with tank splash the outermost ring only deals 12 damage anyway. So again, the key is to focus fire...except in this instance, target the units NEXT to the Immortals. That way you get the full 35/50 on some other unit while splashing the 12 on the immortal. I think this tactic will actually get stronger after the +1 range in the next patch because I think Protoss will be more inclined to keep their immortals back for DPS instead of sending them ahead of their army.
I don't think tanks are as good as marauders in the matchup, but they're still a workable substitute. Especially on maps like Tal'Darim, Backwater, and Shakuras where you can cliff-abuse the enemy's natural gasses with siege mode.
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@Blazinghand, that's basically what I'm doing (or did, before I lost to an early siege tank attack and blamed the build instead of my lack of scouting and reaction, after all I was 10 seconds away from being in a perfect spot to defend it...), and if I claim my natural the very moment it finishes, I'll end up with a decent balance between gas and minerals for siege tank production... but it's not always safe to claim it right away (you might want to be able to use your ramp in some cases).
I'll just open hellions, scout better and follow the rule of "if he gets tanks, get tanks" better, and get them out faster. Maybe try to catch the generic marine/tank force while it's moving out with my hellions to reduce the marine count/stall it until I get my own siege tanks up.
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I recently switched from zerg to terran and I've been doing 1 rax fast expand vs protoss,
I was wondering how do you transition out of it.
When do you build startport, additional barracks (past the first three) and ghosts?
Also, I'd be interested in any good guides for TvP that are for BO or just directions past the point of the initial opener.
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EPT
