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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
On July 22 2012 09:51 Sprite825 wrote: 1 rax fe is for learning macro as a <master player, that doesn't mean that every terran 1 rax fe, i know many T meching against P. Yet still either open the like, two accepted stable openings...1rax fe or 1-1-1 | ||
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Sianos
580 Posts
On July 22 2012 06:46 JonIrenicus wrote: I wonder why so many of our Terran openings were cut out, to the point that 1 rax Fe is the only new-affirmed and "stable" strategy for all three matchup. We had variety, one time, being a Terran meant having lot of options. Not strange that I don't wanna play anymore this game. But I guess they are probably ruining starcraft 2 for Terran so people will buy Hots as soon as it goes out.. Sure the most openers got nerfed away like cloak banshee in tvp (because of faster buildtime for observer), reactor hellion expand in tvz(queen range increase), but you can still do variations if you want to for example you can still open marrauder expand in tvp or reaper expand in tvz for micro usage in the early game or you can do the 1-1-1 into marine-hellion-medivac in both matchups. 2 rax in tvz can still be strong, because zerg tend to be really greedy in the early game. However the choice is to either micro a hell lot in the early game to not fall behind or just do the 1 rax fe. It´s obvious that most people just go with the 1 rax fe because it´s easier to use. | ||
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uzushould
Austria122 Posts
this is a very short question, how do i block the high ground/low ground canonrush on antiga as terra? He simply places a pylon on the high ground right next to my gasgeysir and as soon as it finishes he places canons + additional pylons on the lowground so he can fire on my mineral line....to spot the highground he steals my gas. I didn t found a thread about how to block exactly this type of canonrush on the search funktion. This canonrush is getting more and more popular i faced it several times the last days, and i have absolutely no idea how to block it......if i attack the pylong on the highground he will place 2 canons + additional pylon on the lowground and i wont be able to kill them with scvs and the one marine i get out in this time please help | ||
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sc2terran
United States61 Posts
On July 22 2012 06:46 JonIrenicus wrote: I wonder why so many of our Terran openings were cut out, to the point that 1 rax Fe is the only new-affirmed and "stable" strategy for all three matchup. We had variety, one time, being a Terran meant having lot of options. Not strange that I don't wanna play anymore this game. But I guess they are probably ruining starcraft 2 for Terran so people will buy Hots as soon as it goes out.. bingo... User was warned for this post | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
Hey, good job. Now get out of here. This isn't some whine thread. | ||
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Toastie.NL
Netherlands232 Posts
I'm trying to learn how to mech. Things I did wrong: -Scouting for Zergs T2, even though I hardly took any damage, I knew way to late what unit was coming. -To inactive with my Hellions. I did 2 runby's which both did good damage, I should do more of those. -Expand to a third quite late, and get it denied a couple of times. -Not expand during my Hive Timing 'doom push'. -Not adding appropriate infrastructure in time. -Deciding I needed a Starport and doing pretty much nothing with it. -Having no idea of Army control. -Getting my first attempted third killed by my own Siege Tanks (Tanks doing more damage to my CC than to the lings attacking them is retarded btw). I'm very unfamiliar with mech. Recently, I changed hotkey setup, got a new laptop + new mouse, started playing Random and dropped a league doing so, causing me to play slow and kinda sloppy. I'm sorry about the language in the end, I felt extremely frustrated that I lost to a Zerg whom I feel was inferior (losing tons of mutas for no damage, letting me kill a lot of drones with runby's, NOT EVEN SCOUTING TO CHECK MY RACE, going 3 macrohatch before queens it felt like, and did nothing but 1a his broodlords and roaches... Any help would be appreciated, especially on the macro front  Kind Regards | ||
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Toastie.NL
Netherlands232 Posts
On July 22 2012 23:46 uzushould wrote: Hi this is a very short question, how do i block the high ground/low ground canonrush on antiga as terra? He simply places a pylon on the high ground right next to my gasgeysir and as soon as it finishes he places canons + additional pylons on the lowground so he can fire on my mineral line....to spot the highground he steals my gas. I didn t found a thread about how to block exactly this type of canonrush on the search funktion. This canonrush is getting more and more popular i faced it several times the last days, and i have absolutely no idea how to block it......if i attack the pylong on the highground he will place 2 canons + additional pylon on the lowground and i wont be able to kill them with scvs and the one marine i get out in this time please help You have Day9 and Gauldi to blame. If you notice they cannonrush, IMMEDIATLY start building the refinary at the Gas towards the ramp. It's a highly abusive, lame cheese on that map. | ||
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uzushould
Austria122 Posts
On July 23 2012 00:36 Toastie.NL wrote: You have Day9 and Gauldi to blame. If you notice they cannonrush, IMMEDIATLY start building the refinary at the Gas towards the ramp. It's a highly abusive, lame cheese on that map. what if he just places another pylon instead of the refinery to spot the highground? i mean thats just 25 minerals more and has basicly the same amount of hp.... | ||
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Toastie.NL
Netherlands232 Posts
You can more easilly force a Pylon down than an Assimilator because of this. | ||
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Kluey
Canada1197 Posts
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ValM
India408 Posts
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larse
1611 Posts
This is a Terran late-game composition that I came up with today. It is an extension of the current TvP opener where Terran uses hellion and banshee to harass Protoss economy. You may see this in ByuN vs Seed in Code S recently. My change is to replace viking with 7-8 banshees. It can be either bio or mech build, but the only new thing here is to replace viking with banshee. **The test here does not include spell caster in both side, since its effect is less predictable in unit tester.** I found the Terran late-game composition with banshee rather than viking can kill all anti-air units in many common Protoss late-game composition such as chargelot/stalker/archon/collossus The banshee composition is cheaper than most Protoss late-game composition and it mostly wins direct engagement in the unit tester and will have over 10-20 supply units left. With vikings, the unit tester mostly shows Protoss winning the engagement or it's a pretty even trade. The completely converse results of replacing viking with banshee is really unexpected to me. From near 40 times of timing of I found some interesting patterns in the engagement. If Protoss goes to a stalker heavy build to deal with your early banshee/hellion harassment, then the stalkers will be easily destroyed by banshee in that engagement. I tried control stalkers to target firing at banshee, but stalkers still die too fast. If Protoss goes to a chargelot heavy build (which is really powerful against tank+marine comp), they got killed pretty fast by banshee as well. And Protoss will have no anti-air left after banshee and tank quickly kill the 5 or 10 stalkers. The banshee's targeting priority is really helping out here. The priority is archon > stalker > zealot > immortal. So whether Protoss goes for stalker heavy or zealot heavy build is not that important, since the important anti-air units will be quickly killed by banshee and the ground army. Feedback is a concern here, but clocking is pretty handy to use in advance to dry up the energy. But it seems like few people replace viking with banshee in real games. I wonder what are the drawbacks and weaknesses of using this composition in TvP so few people use it? Or it's something that few people experimented yet? | ||
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Pais
United States11 Posts
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SKDN
Sweden243 Posts
On July 23 2012 09:11 Pais wrote: hello guys. still pais here and still lost in tvz. I am actively trying to keep good mechanics. but i seem unabl to do any damage to the zerg at all. can anyone advise me on something like what my goals are in tvz? deny the third? turtle up?the pros play so fast it is hard to emulate them and even understand them. thanks before hand Try to keep zerg on same amount of bases that you are on is a good start. | ||
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
On July 23 2012 08:34 ValM wrote: Hey all! I have been trying to find the TvT reaper hellion medivac opening build order but have been unsuccessful till now. Could someone please enlighten me regarding the build and how it works? Does it counter 1 rax FE and thorzain TvT opening? Thanks. from my notes 12rax13gas reaper fast 2nd gas -> factory reaper speed+ starport make: reapers, hellions, and 1 medivacs techlab@starport: (expo or +2 rax), banshee+cloak IF Expo: +2 rax double techlab@rax 3rd gas make tanks & transition back to a normal game the +2rax noted there is the all-in variant that I have noted down as for if it counters.... I guess. maybe softcounters? not sure, I haven't played around too much with it (it does become a micro battle though) | ||
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SKDN
Sweden243 Posts
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On July 23 2012 09:11 Pais wrote: hello guys. still pais here and still lost in tvz. I am actively trying to keep good mechanics. but i seem unabl to do any damage to the zerg at all. can anyone advise me on something like what my goals are in tvz? deny the third? turtle up?the pros play so fast it is hard to emulate them and even understand them. thanks before hand The general rules of TvZ are: 1) After a battle/army trade, there is a 20-47 second timing window when you can attack and do damage. It's counter-intuitive, but if you have anything left, including drops, you need to run directly toward the zerg base IMMEDIATELY after the confrontation. You have 20-47 seconds to deny creep, kill queens, kill drones, maybe even kill bases during this time period. 2) Zerg can be in a lot of places at once, but it's quite difficult for zerg to defend against a drop at the main, a drop at the 3rd, and an army moving out on the middle of the map, especially before they get a chance to put down large numbers of spine crawlers. In addition, zerg has to pull almost everything to defend a strong terran army in the middle of the map, leaving their flanks open to drops. That being said, you can use constant multi-pronged attacks to pull the zerg around. Drops let the army get in position, and the army allows drops to be effective. 3) You really can't let zerg go unchecked for the first 10 minutes of the game. It's important to do some kind of pressure/harass/attack before 10:00 in order to keep the zerg from reaching drone saturation. Zerg's goal for the first 10 minutes is to get out 70 drones so that they can continually macro and make attacking units from that point on; the more you interfere and interrupt with that droning process, the later the saturation occurs and the longer zerg will be vulnerable. In addition with this harass, having constant macro and using MULES will catch you up in economy so that you can reach saturation at about the same time as zerg. If you visit my guide, I lay out a fairly simple macro strategy based on these rules. Perhaps reading through it might help you with your playstyle: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=353517 I hope this helps! OH, and don't let APM keep you from trying certain strategies! Just do what you want to do, make sure your thinking and reasoning is correct, and the skills will catch up to you! | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On July 23 2012 08:34 ValM wrote: Hey all! I have been trying to find the TvT reaper hellion medivac opening build order but have been unsuccessful till now. Could someone please enlighten me regarding the build and how it works? Does it counter 1 rax FE and thorzain TvT opening? Thanks. I think someone wrote down the build order for this already, and somebody hinted that it was marine/hellion/medivac with tech lab (good observation), but I can give some insight into the second question. 1rax FE is such an open build...that term literally covers up to 19 food/3:20 of gameplay. There are a million different ways to go from there, including 1-1-1 variations, opening reactor hellions + vikings, opening mass rax, etc. The Thorzain variant is a hybrid mass rax/gas followup that allows players to get 3 rax producing 5 marines at a time + a really fast combat shield. The Thorzain build is by far the best optimization of a marine opening in TvT, and honestly, pretty much completely safe. The reaper/hellion/medivac push comes when the thorzain player has about 8 marines with CS and 5 more at a time on the way. Unless you pull off some ungodly micro tricks, the thorzain player should be able to hold with little effort. | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
On July 23 2012 08:34 ValM wrote: Hey all! I have been trying to find the TvT reaper hellion medivac opening build order but have been unsuccessful till now. Could someone please enlighten me regarding the build and how it works? Does it counter 1 rax FE and thorzain TvT opening? Thanks. This is how I do it, and I do it all the time. Either 2 rax all in, or 1-1-1 style. All games from last season http://drop.sc/202074 vs 900 pt master http://drop.sc/202075 vs 1200 pt master http://drop.sc/202079 vs 1100 pt master http://drop.sc/188861 vs 500 pt master I'll rough out the BO if it's any different than the one zhurai typed out a few posts ago. Reps for now, though. | ||
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Toastie.NL
Netherlands232 Posts
On July 23 2012 00:35 Toastie.NL wrote: http://drop.sc/226146 I'm trying to learn how to mech. Things I did wrong: -Scouting for Zergs T2, even though I hardly took any damage, I knew way to late what unit was coming. -To inactive with my Hellions. I did 2 runby's which both did good damage, I should do more of those. -Expand to a third quite late, and get it denied a couple of times. -Not expand during my Hive Timing 'doom push'. -Not adding appropriate infrastructure in time. -Deciding I needed a Starport and doing pretty much nothing with it. -Having no idea of Army control. -Getting my first attempted third killed by my own Siege Tanks (Tanks doing more damage to my CC than to the lings attacking them is retarded btw). I'm very unfamiliar with mech. Recently, I changed hotkey setup, got a new laptop + new mouse, started playing Random and dropped a league doing so, causing me to play slow and kinda sloppy. I'm sorry about the language in the end, I felt extremely frustrated that I lost to a Zerg whom I feel was inferior (losing tons of mutas for no damage, letting me kill a lot of drones with runby's, NOT EVEN SCOUTING TO CHECK MY RACE, going 3 macrohatch before queens it felt like, and did nothing but 1a his broodlords and roaches... Any help would be appreciated, especially on the macro front Kind Regards | ||
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