EPTBut, what if the baneling bust aggression is constant? I have often survived the first bust, maybe 2nd, but...they just keep streaming zerglings and banelings....what on earth can I do to stop them? It is a constant aggression....1st bust, break wall, then they keep sending ling bling. What would oyu do vs this?
The Terran Help Me Thread - Page 294
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dynwar7
1983 Posts
But, what if the baneling bust aggression is constant? I have often survived the first bust, maybe 2nd, but...they just keep streaming zerglings and banelings....what on earth can I do to stop them? It is a constant aggression....1st bust, break wall, then they keep sending ling bling. What would oyu do vs this? | ||
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Account252508
3454 Posts
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{ToT}ColmA
Japan3260 Posts
am at the point where i just leave when zerg pops up, sad thing is, everyone and their mother plays the retarded race | ||
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xrapture
United States1644 Posts
On July 08 2012 21:25 {ToT}ColmA wrote: gone 1-22 vs zerg on my new account, am masterleague, cant win vs zerg, need help, give replays of games with 20+ minutes where u win vs master league zerg, thanks am at the point where i just leave when zerg pops up, sad thing is, everyone and their mother plays the retarded race wow calm down man, id edit your post before you get banned. hold on I'll find you some replays-- top 8 M Terran here. Yea, Z is very difficult and frustrating but you can't call it a "retarded race" man. Grow up. | ||
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Bwall
Sweden145 Posts
On July 08 2012 21:25 {ToT}ColmA wrote: gone 1-22 vs zerg on my new account, am masterleague, cant win vs zerg, need help, give replays of games with 20+ minutes where u win vs master league zerg, thanks am at the point where i just leave when zerg pops up, sad thing is, everyone and their mother plays the retarded race If u're at <5% winrate I doubt it's a balance issue. Look around for pro-builds(replays) you like and copy one/a few. | ||
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Sianos
580 Posts
On July 08 2012 21:25 {ToT}ColmA wrote: gone 1-22 vs zerg on my new account, am masterleague, cant win vs zerg, need help, give replays of games with 20+ minutes where u win vs master league zerg, thanks am at the point where i just leave when zerg pops up, sad thing is, everyone and their mother plays the retarded race If your winrate is < 5% it has to be a problem with your mindset. If you are that frustrated about a matchup you will play horrible and you will not find the big flaws in your play. Even with the new patch and the difficulty of lategame TvZ you should be able to have a winrate between 40- 50 %. The first advice i would give you is to clear your mind. Don´t thing about how much you hate that matchup but about things you can improve on. The first thing would be is your macro ok? Do you hit the 50 SCV benchmark at 10 minutes? Do you have a 3 rd base running at 13-14 minutes? Do you float a lot of ressources? (Until 13-15 minutes your minerals should almost allways be below 500!) If yes, is it because you have too less production, or is it because you skip building units sometimes or is it because you get supply blocked countless times? Do you stop producing scvs at the correct time?Then you can ask yourself how good are your upgrades in comparision towards your opponent´s are you ahead or behind and why? If you have fixed the issues in your macro you can go into your attacking and matchup specific details. Do you only attack when an important upgrade finishes +2 attack for bio, +1 attack for tanks? Do safe scans before you are moving out to kill creep? Do you know where your opponent´s army is? Where do you attack? (Aggainst Zerg you only want to attack his expandtions, NEVER towards his main) During battlles: Are your tanks sidged up or do you allways get attacked unsiedged? How good is your splitting aggainst banleings/infestors? Ask yourself all those simple questions while watching your replays and tr to improve them step by step. Even if you are unable to win in the lategame you will found yourself in way better positions if you practise your early-midgame well, where you will be able to even win lategame situations aggainst zerg. The key really is the mindset. If you can´t get over with it you will never be able to improve. | ||
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dynwar7
1983 Posts
On July 08 2012 20:42 monkybone wrote: It all depends on how cost-effective the Zerg can be once it has busted the wall. You just need to micro and keep producing units, and try to get bunkers up asap. Thank you monkybone. Any other terrans want to help with on this? | ||
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Sianos
580 Posts
On July 08 2012 22:15 dynwar7 wrote: Thank you monkybone. Any other terrans want to help with on this? Do you talk about a marine heavy opener like 1 rax fe into 3 rax or some sort of 1-1-1? With 1-1-1 i don´t have much experience, but i can give you good tips defending baneling bust with marines only. The key is the spread of your marines AND buildings like bunker and depots. If you just double or tripple your wall your buildings won´t be cost effective and your marines behind the wall are in dagnger. So you have to create a lot of different places where your marines can hide behind buildings. Then as soon as your medivacs are out start dropping him. This will distract him from attacking or force him to a base trade, where you have the better position. I don´t know if you can do the same concept with 1-1-1 because your moneyussage is very thin and you don´t want your important tech buildings to be part of the wall. | ||
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Firlefanz
Germany245 Posts
I play zerg in diamond league but want to switch to terran. I don't want to leave games so i will just start playing terran (yeah, i realize that i will lose a lot in the beginning). Do you have any advice what to focus on in the games that i most likely will lose? Should i just 1 Rax FE and then play by instinct? I have some knowledge about terran play, but obviously thats very basic - I think I'm able to copy the openings but i have no idea when to start stim, combat shield (aka tech-lab "timing") and that kind of stuff. Are there any guides you can recommend? Thanks in advance! | ||
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dynwar7
1983 Posts
On July 08 2012 23:09 Sianos wrote: Do you talk about a marine heavy opener like 1 rax fe into 3 rax or some sort of 1-1-1? With 1-1-1 i don´t have much experience, but i can give you good tips defending baneling bust with marines only. The key is the spread of your marines AND buildings like bunker and depots. If you just double or tripple your wall your buildings won´t be cost effective and your marines behind the wall are in dagnger. So you have to create a lot of different places where your marines can hide behind buildings. Then as soon as your medivacs are out start dropping him. This will distract him from attacking or force him to a base trade, where you have the better position. I don´t know if you can do the same concept with 1-1-1 because your moneyussage is very thin and you don´t want your important tech buildings to be part of the wall. Thank you for the reply Sianos But, may I ask why it is not good to make a wall? When I saw a bling bust coming I made 3 ebays and the bust was held off so well, so what did you mean by the buildings won't be cost effective? And as for marines being able to hide behind buildings, I think it is kind of hard to do it because you don't purposefully place buildings just so you can hide marines there. So I guess ebays are good right? And like you said, after medivacs pop out, start dropping? | ||
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Sianos
580 Posts
On July 09 2012 00:00 Firlefanz wrote: Hi guys! I play zerg in diamond league but want to switch to terran. I don't want to leave games so i will just start playing terran (yeah, i realize that i will lose a lot in the beginning). Do you have any advice what to focus on in the games that i most likely will lose? Should i just 1 Rax FE and then play by instinct? I have some knowledge about terran play, but obviously thats very basic - I think I'm able to copy the openings but i have no idea when to start stim, combat shield (aka tech-lab "timing") and that kind of stuff. Are there any guides you can recommend? Thanks in advance! 1) Never play by instinct! Pick up a build for each matchup and practise it. You need a specific build order for each matchup to tell whether you can hit the benchmarks or not, but you don´t want to follow your build by supply counts. Follow your build with buildings groups like CC then depot then 2 rax then 2 gas then techlab -> ressearching stim then factory + ebay + 3rd gas etc. With this you will easily be able to get back on track when something is disrupting you like cheese or allins. 2) Pick up a macro oriented build like 1 rax fe and have different follow ups for it for each matchup. For this try to copy a solid pro build or try to create your own one. 3) Make a solid hotkey setup for your army and production. Then practise your macro cycle and hotkeys. An easy macro cycle can be like this: - make scvs - make units - make depots - follow build - add your new units/buildings to hotkeys For this try to get benchmarks for your build, where it was executed perfectly. A typical benchmark for example for 1 rax fe is 50 scvs and 100 supply at 10 minutes. 4) Start spamming apm. Playing as terran means to have a good amount of apm like 130+ at least 100 depending on your style. The concept is to make your finger´s use to fast speed and then you want to increase your effectivness with each click. You don´t need much talent to play with high apm, but you really need them if you want to play constantly good. You need to do stuff like macro, attacking, dropping, micro etc. 5) Practise your attacking pattern and matchup specific things like killing creep/overlords in tvz, scanning observers in tvp. Focus your attacks on expandtions and wait for your upgrades to kick in. 6) Practise the matchup specific micro and lategame. Search for Filter´s From Bronze to Master´s guide for builds and benchmarks if ou can´t find them elsewhere. GLHF @ dynwar: I didn´t say to not make a wall i said to make simple wall and create little walls for your marines. The thing with only one wall is that your opponent´s army can attack your marines as soon as they are in. If you use your supply depots and the terrain of your natrual you can create more walls so that your marines will stay alive. With this the number of marines will raise by every attack your opponent will do and you can put some into medivac´s to force your opponent to either end the game or pull back. | ||
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Firlefanz
Germany245 Posts
 I have two following questions: 1. Do you refer to 100/130 APM or EAPM? I have 135 EAPM with zerg, but thats because of the race mechanics (I'm slower with terran). 2. I'm really bad at seeing observers. I can see DTs/Banshees pretty easy, but somehow I always miss observers. Any advice for that? | ||
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Sianos
580 Posts
On July 09 2012 00:48 Firlefanz wrote: Thanks for your answer Sianos. I think i already do most things on your list. That doesn't seem too hard, but I'm very afraid of the micro necessary to play terran. I have two following questions: 1. Do you refer to 100/130 APM or EAPM? I have 135 EAPM with zerg, but thats because of the race mechanics (I'm slower with terran). 2. I'm really bad at seeing observers. I can see DTs/Banshees pretty easy, but somehow I always miss observers. Any advice for that? 1. Between 100 and 130 EAPM is fine if you don´t do a very agressive and micro intensive style. I play high diamond aggainst master player and have ~ 130 EAPM which is enough for my standard play. 2. Setting your graphic settings to low can help a bit, but you need some time between your macro cycle to carefully look for those. Often they have 1 on your army or in front of your base so that they can see when you move out. These are points where you can carefully look around, but no moving observers are hard to see. You don´t need to be that afraid of the micro part. The necessary actions are not hard to execute, but you really need to know what actions are important aggainst different unit compositions. The mistakes i see a lot of terrans below master doing is to stim too often and to move too often. | ||
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Starshaped
Sweden575 Posts
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deeshoo
United States319 Posts
On July 09 2012 00:48 Firlefanz wrote: Thanks for your answer Sianos. I think i already do most things on your list. That doesn't seem too hard, but I'm very afraid of the micro necessary to play terran. I have two following questions: 1. Do you refer to 100/130 APM or EAPM? I have 135 EAPM with zerg, but thats because of the race mechanics (I'm slower with terran). 2. I'm really bad at seeing observers. I can see DTs/Banshees pretty easy, but somehow I always miss observers. Any advice for that? Another piece of advice is to practice your bio army splits. If you search marine split on a custom game, you can find it and start practicing. This is an incredibly important skill against banelings, infestors, colossi, high templars, and siege tanks (basically all the big bad aoe'ers that can just decimate an entire army of marines in seconds) | ||
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Fencar
United States2694 Posts
On July 09 2012 01:47 deeshoo wrote: Another piece of advice is to practice your bio army splits. If you search marine split on a custom game, you can find it and start practicing. This is an incredibly important skill against banelings, infestors, colossi, high templars, and siege tanks (basically all the big bad aoe'ers that can just decimate an entire army of marines in seconds) You have to practice in a unit tester against HT's and Infestors since they're different from splitting against Banelings, and you can't practice against Colossus since they splash in such a small area, you would have to be Flash to split against that. There is also a very good micro trainer that you can play to practice your Marine/Marauder busts against both Siege lines and Banelings. It's called 'Darglien's Micro Trainer' and is published on EU and AM servers. You can also practice Marine/Tank/Medivac against Muta/Ling/Bane engagements, as well as many other scenarios. Relevant thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=237869 | ||
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ntrz
United States57 Posts
On July 08 2012 02:00 Naytup wrote: Hi, i really love going mech because of my slow APM (i'm gold and i didn't play much lately). 1° - Is it viable to going Mech against Protoss ? 2° - Is there a standard BuildOrder to going mech safely ? (1 rax expo ? Facto before CC ? ...) 3° - How many Factory i must have on 3 base ? Mech is viable against P, especially in your league because a lot of people just expect to go chargelot/archon/storm vs bio and faceroll to victory. Banshee harass is particularly viable vs P in mech, they will be your primary harass unit, alongside blueflame hellions. If you can find a way to keep them on 2 bases due to harass then you should be able to win 100% of your games. I would suggest trying to pull it off on maps with smaller chokes (daybreak, cloud kingdom) I personally don't use tanks very often in TvP mech, I try to get a combo of thor/banshee/hellion/ghost. But I think that just stems from my dislike of tanks. The only time I will use these is if they are going standard colossus/chargelot/stalker balls because if you get a critical mass of tanks, you can wipe out nearly all of their stalker/colossus with 2-3 volleys (which most gold players don't micro their stalkers out of). I had a LOT of success going mech in TvP, just make sure you keep active scouting up so they don't do something weird like carrier switch in the late game (you can keep the scouting up by keeping the hellion runby's and cloak banshee pushes on any possible expo's). You want direct engagements. You will win direct fights with mech in TvP if he goes immortal/HT you HAVE TO LAND EMP's. Those two units are the only thing that can stop mech cold. | ||
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OCWTO
Scotland5 Posts
Initially with my scout (after rax) i though he went 1 gate fe and did the nexus before cybercore. I didnt manage to get another scv in later due to sentries at his ramp. Im curious how i should have reacted and if it was just a loss due to bad scouting and a bad engagement. The protoss push just totally rolled over my army. I was trying to do the bomber tvp style, pushing out at almost 11min with 4 medivac, +1 stim and combat shield while taking my 3rd. REPLAY: http://drop.sc/217080 | ||
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xertion
Sweden52 Posts
With the bunker I hold most early pressure. I just played vs Master Zerg and lost 1 SCV (50 minerals) vs 20 speedlings. In other games they do Baneling Busts which usually kill the bunker, but with 6 marines coming out at a time and proper splitting, I can usually turn it around into a counter-push and win. Now my question is that I'm thinking of combining this build with an enginering bay block on the Zerg hatchery. I've seen some Terrans do this in other builds and I wonder what you think about it, and if it's worth it. I feel that combined with an early game push, forcing the Zerg to either delay his hatch by A LONG time, or to take his expansion in a more vulnerable position; it could be quite strong. However the cons about this is that you delay your command center, first racks, marine and bunker. This means that the build is even more vulnerable to early lings running pass the Engineering Bay straight for the Terran base. From what I see, most Zerg Natural expansions go down 02:08. On what map can you send your Supply Depot SCV and still get to the base at 02:08? Or do you send a mineral-line SCV to do it? | ||
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xertion
Sweden52 Posts
On July 09 2012 03:53 OCWTO wrote: I just played a tvp where the protoss went nexus first into gate->robo-> double forge before additional gates then a robo bay. It works out into a 11min push with 2 colossus, stalkers,sentries, zealots and an immortal with 1/1/0. The protoss cut probes at 47 so perfect 2 base saturation. Initially with my scout (after rax) i though he went 1 gate fe and did the nexus before cybercore. I didnt manage to get another scv in later due to sentries at his ramp. Im curious how i should have reacted and if it was just a loss due to bad scouting and a bad engagement. The protoss push just totally rolled over my army. I was trying to do the bomber tvp style, pushing out at almost 11min with 4 medivac, +1 stim and combat shield while taking my 3rd. REPLAY: http://drop.sc/217080 This I would adjust: - Send SCV after Supply Depot. You will arrive to his natural about 02:10. He puts down his Nexus at 02:35. This would give you 25 seconds to block his nexus with an engineering bay. Ofcourse it's easy to say when you see replay. If you don't see gate on a 2-player map, maybe you suspect 2 gates and don't want to waste money on engineering block. However, he build his pylon at his ramp. If you see his pylon at his ramp at 02:10 without any gates, you know he doesnt have hidden pylon/2-gate on hidden place and you can go ahead and block. This would delay his build SOOO much since he would have to build gateway, zealot and probably a cyber-core aswell. - You build second bunker at 07:45. I'm not 100% sure, but I think this is too late for a early 2-base all in warp-gate push. Please correct me if wrong, however I always try to start build my second bunker earlier than that. (about 6min) - When you see his push 11:15 you should run right click you army at base, build 2 bunkers, lift up 1 reactor racks and build a second starport on that reactor and build a new reactor with that barrack. You than hold the push with 4 bunkers, repair and wait until you get enough vikings out. I would also have cancled the third and rebuild it in base instead. Even if you have 2-4 vikings, you can still position them on your bunkers, or on the high ground next to your ramp; and it's very difficult for the Protoss to push up vs repair and high ground vikings. IF I see Collossus in base when I do that Bomber-push, I load up and drop him while I go for my third. Just to keep him in base, however I do the same thing with lifting racks, building second starport. After that you just need to scout for tech-switch into HT. | ||
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