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On July 07 2012 14:25 SC2John wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2012 05:21 Inquisitor1323 wrote:
first, what is the maximum amount of scvs you want in game? Is it 70?
Second, when taking a third in TvZ, should you always make it an orbital? The optimal number of SCVs should always be 65-70, or 2.5-3 fully saturated bases. You should reach this number by about 10:30 every game if you are macroing properly, 50 SCVs at 9:00 on 2 bases. In any matchup, you should always endeavor to make your first 3 bases orbitals. If it's a really open 3rd that's hard to defend or your opponent is going really heavy on aggression, you MIGHT decide to get a planetary, but I would really only make an orbital at your 3rd unless it's a very special occasion. Another OC vs PF rule to throw in there: In TvT, after 3 bases, always PF against bio, always OC against mech.
Gotta disagree about PF in TvT. I've seen so many TvTs in the GSL where one player went with PFs at their expos and simply got out-marined by a bio player not engaging at the PFs. Terran has too many ranged units for PFs to be effective. Defensively speaking, you're better off with either a CC or Orbital that you can float to repair.
The only use PFs have in TvT are proxy PFs to zone space against pure bio players, imo.
PF has a place in lategame TvP for making bases DT/Zealot-proof. And in TvZ for helping against ling/bling runbys. But thats pretty much it. Any smart player is going to hold position a Marine/Stalker/Roach behind a mineral line but out of range of PF in order to deny mining.
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Losing expo and workers to one drop sounds really silly tbh
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How can terran players stop Cannons rushes i always get cannon rushed by protoss and it doesn't let me expand or he pylons in my base
Anyway to stop it?
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I can't hold a 2base ling baneling allin to save my life while going 1 rax fe into mech. Any sim cityies I can use to hold this?
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rush4wild July 08 2012 00:55. Posts 5 PM Profile Report Quote #
How can terran players stop Cannons rushes i always get cannon rushed by protoss and it doesn't let me expand or he pylons in my base
Anyway to stop it?
I searched around TL for a minute but didnt find any nice blueprint, refering to cannonrush defence, to help you out with.
so here is my personal opinion on what to do:
1. cannonrushes only work on maps with fixed spawn locations or if your opponents scouts you the fastest way possible.
so you really don't need to worry about it at all on most maps.
2. the probe is crucial. get the probe and the rush is stopped. if you cant get it, atleast make him micro it and chase with 2 scvs
3. check exactly where his pylons are. if they are far away (so that the cannons cannot be placed within range of your supplydepots/mineralline/oc) or close (in range of the aforementioned). if its far off, you might be able to sit it out and defend with bunker marauder while macroing up or preparing a push. If the pylons are close they are probably exposed to your scvs. In this case you need to let the pylon finish (it will often just be a fake rush anyway) and try to deny the cannons from going up.
the worst case scenario: he snuck his probe in and we didn't notice until there already are 2 cannons in between our neat walloff and mineraline. in this case it s probably best to pull all scvs, lift your oc to 3rd, lift your rax to a safe production place, and go with the scv train immediately.
so in short, chase probe deny cannons, dont forget to macro.
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Hi, i really love going mech because of my slow APM (i'm gold and i didn't play much lately).
1° - Is it viable to going Mech against Protoss ?
2° - Is there a standard BuildOrder to going mech safely ? (1 rax expo ? Facto before CC ? ...)
3° - How many Factory i must have on 3 base ?
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Hey guys, gold here and i was just wondering what are some standard openings against z now that reactor hellion is kinda weak now. Thanks in advanced!
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On July 08 2012 02:00 Naytup wrote:
Hi, i really love going mech because of my slow APM (i'm gold and i didn't play much lately).
1° - Is it viable to going Mech against Protoss ?
2° - Is there a standard BuildOrder to going mech safely ? (1 rax expo ? Facto before CC ? ...)
3° - How many Factory i must have on 3 base ?
1. Yes, but it only works on 2-3 of the laddermaps, namely Daybreak, Cloud Kingdom and Entombed Valley. All other maps mech gets hardcountered by blink/collo or just blink harass in general.
2. In TvT and TvZ you can go mech with any opening, 1rax FE, 1-1-1 etc. In TvP the only safe way to go mech is to open 1-1-1 and expand behind either banshee harass or marine/hellion harass. If you go 1rax FE in TvP and see that your opponent also went FE you can go mech pretty safe, but if your opponent didn't FE you need to go bio.
3. It really depends on the matchup and what your opponent is doing, so it's hard to say, but between 4-6 or so.
Edit: I should add that you need ghosts in TvP, so it's ghost-mech, not pure mech. I also get ghosts in TvZ mech, but it's not a necessity.
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On July 08 2012 00:55 rush4wild wrote:
How can terran players stop Cannons rushes i always get cannon rushed by protoss and it doesn't let me expand or he pylons in my base
Anyway to stop it?
I actually got cannon rushed by GM gaulzi 2 games in a row and I'm still wondering what I could have done differently. Since I knew who he was and what he did, I 11/11 rax the first game and still lost. The next game I walled the bottom of my ramp and was able to stop his probe from entering. It's amazing how good such an easy to execute strategy is
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What time should I scout my own base and should I do it against every race?
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On July 08 2012 11:50 metcw wrote:
What time should I scout my own base and should I do it against every race?
Well if you plan to wall you don't really need to do that early on. Later just place a few depots at black spots and you'll be fine .
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United States4883 Posts
On July 08 2012 01:51 TheLaw wrote:
I can't hold a 2base ling baneling allin to save my life while going 1 rax fe into mech. Any sim cityies I can use to hold this?
If you scout an early gas and suspect some kind of a bust, I would suggest delaying the tech switch to mech. The key here is to wall off both your natural and your main with 1-2 bunkers.
If you're going for a fast tank build, just make sure you're tank is on the high ground behind 2 walls. All you need to do is pull SCVs and liftoff when they break into your natural. The tank + a handful of hellions behind your second wall SHOULD be enough to hold it off. To stop any followup pressure, just continue making tanks and hellions and wall off your natural asap.
If you're going for the standard reactor hellion opener into tanks or banshees, consider delaying the tanks or banshees and getting a handful of marauders out before swapping add-ons. This is the standard way to stop a baneling bust or a roach bust. Just make sure you have 2-3 bunkers spread out and a full walloff at your natural.
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United States4883 Posts
On July 08 2012 06:29 Dutchysmoke wrote:
Hey guys, gold here and i was just wondering what are some standard openings against z now that reactor hellion is kinda weak now. Thanks in advanced!
This is a common question. The most common build nowadays is 1rax expand, add 2 gas, get reactor hellions, then start harassing with MASS hellions/banshees. Unlike the old builds that called for 2-4 hellions, then swapping add-ons for faster tanks, we're seeing players just continue making hellions up to 10-16 with 2-3 cloaked banshees for support. Behind this, you can add a bunch of rax and go bio or biomech, or you can add 2-3 factories and start going for a mech composition. This opening is kind of known as the "Forgg opening", so look that up.
Additionally, you can do a mass rax play. The idea is to get 3-4 rax up really early do an early marine push to punish zergs that go for a fast 3rd before gas. This usually transitions into a very heavy bio midgame. Generally, either do a 1rax FE into 3-4 rax or do some kind of 2rax pressure (12/14 rax or 11/11) into an expand.
Another build that's becoming popularized is a special biomech build emphasizing marine/hellion to do early aggression. If you check out MVP vs. Golden from the recent Homestory Cup, you can see a game where he did this build. It's basically 2 rax aggression into mass marines with combat shield + mass hellions with blue flame. To follow up, he adds thors to tank damage.
Hope this helps!
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United States4883 Posts
On July 08 2012 11:50 metcw wrote:
What time should I scout my own base and should I do it against every race?
Learn the all-ins of each race. The only reason why you would need to scout in your own base is some kind of proxy. Short list of proxy all-ins: cannon rush, proxy 2-gate, proxy 1-gate/cannon, proxy barracks, proxy hatchery (REALLY uncommon).
From this list, it can be concluded that protoss gives us the most trouble. We can assume that 99% of the time, zerg won't do anything really wonky. Terrans will sometimes do proxies, but generally you can scout if a 2rax or proxy marauder/reaper attack is coming by seeing what's in the terran's main base. Therefore, most of the time, we just need to make sure to scout our base against protoss.
What I usually do is ALWAYS build my first depot by my ramp; this gives me vision of the ramp and, on most maps, will catch a worker coming to proxy just in time. After that, I just make sure I scout the outskirts of my base and stop by common proxy spots on the way out to scout. This additional scout time is nominal, and it keeps you safe from obvious all-ins like proxy 2-gate.
Hope this helps!
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How do you deal with 2 base infestors, or any infestors in general? ghosts aren't worth making and it seems incredibly hard to manage fighting them unless im going full mech. IT's tank incredibly well. I know most of it is splitting bio, scouting ahead of tanks, and being ready, but it still feels crazy hard.
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On July 08 2012 14:30 Kenshi235 wrote:
How do you deal with 2 base infestors, or any infestors in general? ghosts aren't worth making and it seems incredibly hard to manage fighting them unless im going full mech. IT's tank incredibly well. I know most of it is splitting bio, scouting ahead of tanks, and being ready, but it still feels crazy hard.
Dont position your marines infront of your tanks, Spread out your tanks, but always have 1-2 tanks in front of your marines, so you leapfrog your tanks, not run wild with your marines. Atleast that is how I do it.
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On July 08 2012 14:30 Kenshi235 wrote:
How do you deal with 2 base infestors, or any infestors in general? ghosts aren't worth making and it seems incredibly hard to manage fighting them unless im going full mech. IT's tank incredibly well. I know most of it is splitting bio, scouting ahead of tanks, and being ready, but it still feels crazy hard.
Tanks are really good aggainst infestor play, so when you see your opponent is going for infestors just produce tanks out of 2 or 3 factories and you will be fine. You can also add some marrauder to walk in front of your tanks before siedging up, but you need to keep your maines behind your tanks at any cost.
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Gold Terran Problem in TvZ
I lose to this all the time. Zergs who just make a million lings, take 3 bases drones up. If I try to leave on foot I just get surrounded and all my bio and tanks die. If I try to do a double marine drop at 3rd and main sometimes they will have spores or overlord scouts it and have lings and banes waiting already. This is pissing me off because I feel I can't do ANYTHING to pressure the zerg or trade armies or just being counter attacked and they just turtle with spines and win.
My favourite build is 1 rax expand then add 2 rax, take double gas go into factory start tanks and pump out double medivacs. But yeah mass lings and a click too much skill for me. Any advice?
Not to mention trying to go hellions and they make 5-6 queens and spread a billion creep tumors and hellions take forever to kill the tumors and actually die to queens and lings on creep.
MEH
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On July 08 2012 17:20 Sianos wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2012 14:30 Kenshi235 wrote:
How do you deal with 2 base infestors, or any infestors in general? ghosts aren't worth making and it seems incredibly hard to manage fighting them unless im going full mech. IT's tank incredibly well. I know most of it is splitting bio, scouting ahead of tanks, and being ready, but it still feels crazy hard. Tanks are really good aggainst infestor play, so when you see your opponent is going for infestors just produce tanks out of 2 or 3 factories and you will be fine. You can also add some marrauder to walk in front of your tanks before siedging up, but you need to keep your maines behind your tanks at any cost.
honestly I like bio (well.. no tank styles, I like marine marauder bf hellion medivac -> add in thor/viking/raven ...) against infestors and marine tank (2/2 +1 timing) vs muta ling bane (especially vs things like the mass baneling semi-allin zergs are doing against it
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On July 08 2012 17:38 zhurai wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2012 17:20 Sianos wrote:On July 08 2012 14:30 Kenshi235 wrote:
How do you deal with 2 base infestors, or any infestors in general? ghosts aren't worth making and it seems incredibly hard to manage fighting them unless im going full mech. IT's tank incredibly well. I know most of it is splitting bio, scouting ahead of tanks, and being ready, but it still feels crazy hard. Tanks are really good aggainst infestor play, so when you see your opponent is going for infestors just produce tanks out of 2 or 3 factories and you will be fine. You can also add some marrauder to walk in front of your tanks before siedging up, but you need to keep your maines behind your tanks at any cost. honestly I like bio (well.. no tank styles, I like marine marauder bf hellion medivac -> add in thor/viking/raven ...) against infestors and marine tank (2/2 +1 timing) vs muta ling bane (especially vs things like the mass baneling semi-allin zergs are doing against it
Then the only thing i would recommend is mass dropping everywhere as soon as infestors are out. I don´t have much experience with bio only in TvZ, but dropping is the only way to split those infestors up and make your army way more cost effective.
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EPT
