EPTI'm thinking maybe Siege expand, but I'm not sure how viable it is against protoss in SC2. Are there any builds you can recommend me to get practicing?
The Terran Help Me Thread - Page 28
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Qikz
United Kingdom12055 Posts
I'm thinking maybe Siege expand, but I'm not sure how viable it is against protoss in SC2. Are there any builds you can recommend me to get practicing? | ||
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StaticMilk
19 Posts
It's only happened a few times but I miss the proxy gates and there are zealots inside my main pretty quickly. What's the best response to this? Edit: On a side note, are there hacks for SC2 right now? I know this might be in the wrong place but I just checked the replay for the game and watched the game from his cam. Proxy gated on shattered temple in the corner of my main without ever seeing one of my units or buildings. His past 5 games have all been proxy 2 gates. Replay here on my smurf account: ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-231439.jpg) | ||
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XiGua
Sweden3085 Posts
On September 14 2011 06:51 StaticMilk wrote: I'm a mid master's Terran. Just wondering how best you deal with proxy 2 gate cheeses(assuming I miss the gates) either slightly outside the main or inside. I usually open 1 rax maurader FE. It's only happened a few times but I miss the proxy gates and there are zealots inside my main pretty quickly. What's the best response to this? It' the equivalent of having zerglings from a 6 pool in your base. Go for a bunker fast and try to stack your scvs to do some burst damage on the zealots. If you get the bunker up defending your mineral line, then you should be fine. But he could contain you and start going for some other cheese, be ready for everything and since you miss the proxy gates I assume that you don't scout before your rax is built? I always scout on 10 right after I start building my depot, it saves me from these kinds of cheeses! | ||
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StaticMilk
19 Posts
On September 14 2011 06:58 XiGua wrote: It' the equivalent of having zerglings from a 6 pool in your base. Go for a bunker fast and try to stack your scvs to do some burst damage on the zealots. If you get the bunker up defending your mineral line, then you should be fine. But he could contain you and start going for some other cheese, be ready for everything and since you miss the proxy gates I assume that you don't scout before your rax is built? I always scout on 10 right after I start building my depot, it saves me from these kinds of cheeses! I uploaded the replay in hopes of providing more information. I actually scout after depot but as you can see, there's no way I'm seeing that cheese. | ||
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Asha
United Kingdom38257 Posts
On September 14 2011 07:12 StaticMilk wrote: I uploaded the replay in hopes of providing more information. I actually scout after depot but as you can see, there's no way I'm seeing that cheese. This is why I always build my first depot at least somewhere near my ramp even if I'm not walling, better chance of catching someone trying to sneak a probe in TT Doesn't hurt to be a little paranoid and path the scv you want to build your second depot with around the outskirts of your base a bit if you've not seen a probe either. Maybe I've just not watched enough cheesy protoss, but there's something incredibly suspicious about a replay where his camera remains fixed on your base the whole game lol =p Bad luck to get a maphacking Protoss. Good VOD of Marineking holding off an unscouted 2x proxy gate vs Ace while going for 1rax expo http://www.gomtv.net/2011super1/vod/65483 (it's free, game starts about 7mins :: note Ace sends out a probe to both sides of the map and checks whether any minerals have been mined to determine MKP's location, your cheesy bastard didn't do that ¬_¬) | ||
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CellGel
Australia27 Posts
 .Is it generally 3 structures per base for terran? | ||
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Squigly
United Kingdom629 Posts
On September 14 2011 06:51 StaticMilk wrote: I'm a mid master's Terran. Just wondering how best you deal with proxy 2 gate cheeses(assuming I miss the gates) either slightly outside the main or inside. I usually open 1 rax maurader FE. It's only happened a few times but I miss the proxy gates and there are zealots inside my main pretty quickly. What's the best response to this? Edit: On a side note, are there hacks for SC2 right now? I know this might be in the wrong place but I just checked the replay for the game and watched the game from his cam. Proxy gated on shattered temple in the corner of my main without ever seeing one of my units or buildings. His past 5 games have all been proxy 2 gates. Replay here on my smurf account: Tbh, looks like a hack. I checked on super slow. No way he could possible know you were there. He didnt even get close to seeing you. Didnt see min mining or anything. Unless you can tell from an unused geyser, report him. EDIT: Hes Also a mega douchebag. Please please report him. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
On September 14 2011 06:05 Maxie wrote: Ah, I love doing that, especially with a floating barracks if I dont have medivacs yet  . And yeah it was cross positions, taking a third isn't very hard, it's when you have to start taking bases at the places your enemy could have spawned at (and their naturals/thirds, with the damned rocks) that it gets really annoying. Good point about the building upgrades, though I was so mined out at the time that I could barely afford putting up turrets. First TvZ that goes on for that long on that map for me, a long TvP is far more enjoyable there since you're actually decently mobile against a not so mobile opponent (though random pylons warping in zealots can be annoying). But yeah I generally make my third and any further expansions into PF in TvZ. Hi-sec auto-tracking lets you get off one more shot against fleeing mutas, and lets your turrets support each other better, but the more expensive Building Armor (also boosts bunkers and p forts!) changes the mutalisk vs turret dynamic on the margin. It increases the number of mutas needed to 2-shot a turret by 4, -1 for each +1 the zerg player has. It increases the number of mutas needed to 3-shot a turret by 2. Basically, against a zerg opponent who is flying around with an exactly optimal number of mutas, it'll throw him off by a volley. This will have almost no impact in a fight with marines or thors around since those are wayy better than turrets, but it will have an impact in small mutalisk vs turret engagement when your army isn't around, say at a far-off base. + Show Spoiler [math :|] + A muta deals 9 damage per volley, which means you need 14 +0 mutas or13 +1 mutas or 12 +2 mutas to 2-shot a turret, and 10 +0 mutas or 9 +1 mutas or 8 +2 mutas to 3-shot a turret. Against turrets with armor: 2-shotting numbers: +0 mutas needed goes from 14 to 18 +1 mutas needed goes from 13 to 16 +2 mutas needed goes from 12 to 14 3-shotting numbers: +0 mutas goes from 10 to 12 +1 mutas goes from 9 to 11 +2 mutas goes from 8 to 10 Examples: Your opponent has a flock of 13 +1 mutas, which would normally let him 2-shot your turret. However, now that your have building armor, his mutas instead 3-shot it. Your opponent has a flock of 12 +2 mutas, which would normally let him 2-shot your turret. However, now that you have building armor, his mutas instead 3-shot it. Your opponent has a flock of 10 +0 mutas, which would normally let him 3-shot your turret. However, now that you have building armor, his mutas instead 4-shot it. On September 14 2011 06:46 Qikz wrote: I'm really not feeling Bio in TvP anymore. Is mech viable enough for me to practice it a lot and use it? I love mech in TvT and it's scratched the itch I need to have scratched. I'm thinking maybe Siege expand, but I'm not sure how viable it is against protoss in SC2. Are there any builds you can recommend me to get practicing? Mech in TvP is mostly viable, but usually you include bio units to fill some pretty important roles (mobility, harassment, anti-air). I've seen builds with the build order goal of 3 rax (tech tech reactor), 2 factories (tech reactor) 1 starport (reactor) on 2 bases, making M+M+M + Tanks Hellions Vikings. Adding tanks into your mix of units drains gas, decreasing your number of medivacs, ghosts, infantry ups in the like. However, it makes you much less assailable and on certain maps can hold ground very well. When microing tanks against protoss, it is absolutely critical that they consantly focus fire on protoss ranged units. In general your primary target will be casters such as high templars (whose psistorm has a mere range of 9 to the tanks' 13), and ranged support units like sentries, stalkers, and colossi. If you shoot at zealots (except when they're the only thing to shoot at), you're usually killing your own guys. Leave that to the bio and hellions. Aiming for colossi is good if they have units under them. Remember that tanks need as much micro as bio. If you leave them alone they will friendly fire you to death against chargelots. 1 reactor's worth of blueflame hellions is useful as well, since he will likely go chargelots. When I plan on using multi-base tank strats in TvP, I use a 1 rax reactor expo, which lets me get enough gas to start my factory ASAP after I start my CC. Maps where I think mech is more viable: Searing Crater, Shattered Temple close spawns, Shakuras Plateau. The chokey elements of this map will help you. At some point you will need ghosts. | ||
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Squigly
United Kingdom629 Posts
A few patches ago sure, but now thors tanks and hellions all got nerfed its become a lot weaker. But if your low (master and below) leagues than anything can work. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
On September 14 2011 08:28 Squigly wrote: Id kinda advise staying away from TvP mech. Its barely vialbe as is and is getting nerfed with the tank GS thing soon. A few patches ago sure, but now thors tanks and hellions all got nerfed its become a lot weaker. But if your low (master and below) leagues than anything can work. A week or two ago, tqWannabe made it to the GSL Code A prelims Ro16 going Full Mech in every matchup, including TvP. I remember watching a brief interview with him post-prelims. He streams here: http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/tQWannaBe Code A Preliminary results: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2011_Global_StarCraft_II_League_October/Preliminaries#Group_B In any case, Full Mech is probably not viable at a Code S level. But if someone can Full Mech his way to spitting distance From code B, I'm sure anyone on the ladder will be fine using it if they know how it works. If you go tanks BioMech is substantially easier to use, in my opinion, but suffers from non-shared upgrades. It's your decision. Re: the GS+HS combo, ghosts are usually a good call. They also do fairly well against clumped up zealots, archons, etc. Dunno how you'd work it into full mech but it sounds like a good idea. | ||
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Squigly
United Kingdom629 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
On September 14 2011 09:00 Squigly wrote: Ghost mech is the way to go always. I cant stress that enough. Get ghosts. They kick ass against P. Yeah I mean I guess no matter what composition you go, Ghosts are always just awesome. EMPs are really good support for any unit mix. EDIT: In TvP, I mean. | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12055 Posts
Onto practice I go! :p | ||
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TheDurl
9 Posts
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KenDM
Netherlands206 Posts
On September 14 2011 18:53 TheDurl wrote: What, in your opinion, is the best way to counter zealot + archon? Against Archons (strong shields) it might be wise to ise EMP's if you can handle that. Otherwise try to beat them with thors. Siege tanks are also nice, but chargelots will take care of those. Archons also do +1 damage to bio, + they have splash. So I guess Hellion/Thors. I know Thors are late, but so should Archons be late as well. Blazinghand any comments? | ||
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CDMVR
United States92 Posts
On September 14 2011 06:51 StaticMilk wrote: I'm a mid master's Terran. Just wondering how best you deal with proxy 2 gate cheeses(assuming I miss the gates) either slightly outside the main or inside. I usually open 1 rax maurader FE. It's only happened a few times but I miss the proxy gates and there are zealots inside my main pretty quickly. What's the best response to this? Edit: On a side note, are there hacks for SC2 right now? I know this might be in the wrong place but I just checked the replay for the game and watched the game from his cam. Proxy gated on shattered temple in the corner of my main without ever seeing one of my units or buildings. His past 5 games have all been proxy 2 gates. Replay here on my smurf account: This guy is on the hacker database season 3 like 5 different entries. no big suprise there. | ||
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CDMVR
United States92 Posts
All the while massing up a critical number of tanks back home off 2 base. Then you can just push out and use hellions as meatshield/blockers vs Immortal/gateway mix and a-move or leapfrog to victory. If anyone's interested in an exact bo, just PM me and i'll sort you out with what I use. and no I don't use ghosts or ravens, although I'm sure a high level caliber player could incorporate them into his gameplay. I don't see it doing AS well after 1.4 however. | ||
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TheDurl
9 Posts
On September 14 2011 21:56 KenDM wrote: Against Archons (strong shields) it might be wise to ise EMP's if you can handle that. Otherwise try to beat them with thors. Siege tanks are also nice, but chargelots will take care of those. Archons also do +1 damage to bio, + they have splash. So I guess Hellion/Thors. I know Thors are late, but so should Archons be late as well. Blazinghand any comments? I would think that Thors DPS is too slow for a mass of chargelots would a spread of mass marines/ghosts be effective? combined with the low cost of marines and the emps of ghost along with the high dps i would see that slightly better. but thats my opinion im open for any other suggestions. | ||
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KenDM
Netherlands206 Posts
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Asha
United Kingdom38257 Posts
On September 14 2011 22:40 TheDurl wrote: I would think that Thors DPS is too slow for a mass of chargelots would a spread of mass marines/ghosts be effective? combined with the low cost of marines and the emps of ghost along with the high dps i would see that slightly better. but thats my opinion im open for any other suggestions. Bio is fine vs Zealot/Archon as long as you have ghost support. If you land your emp's well you'll be in great shape. Prioritise EMP's on the Archons since they'll melt them and without the splash damage things become a hell of a lot less scary. Do try and get an EMP on the chargelots before they come in though so you catch them while clumped and not staggered out by the charge, and then you should handle them pretty easily while kiting back. | ||
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