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On March 16 2012 05:20 iNViCiOUZ wrote: Holy Shit fast all go watch qxc play against white-ra (http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/qxc) Late game terran with speed reapers alot of Raven and mariners!
ThorZain uses reapers v. Protoss late game as well.
I think Reapers have a two-pronged benefit in late game:
1) Harass/Deny Expansions 2) Counter Chargelots, which as we know don't have a great counter as Terran.
I like the idea, but am not keen if this will be a lasting change against Protoss.
I was able to beat a high GM Protoss player late game (310k score each player), by PFing and mass turreting the middle, getting +2 armor and +1 range, massing ghosts, marine/medivac, and vikings. Then I massed OCs, depleted all the bases on my side of the map, and forced him to engage as I nuked/dropped his expos. Meanwhile I set up 4 starports and started pumping out BCs, which I concomitantly upgraded to 3/3 while holding the middle.
What ensued was pretty hilarious as he could do nothing against this set up. He would trade his army down for very little supply of my army as he clearly had no idea how to deal with this. (Clearly the reverse of what we normally experience as Terran).
Of course I can think of plenty of things he could have done to counter this.
However, he ended up trying for a fleeting of carriers with mothership. Turns out yamagun and 3/3 BCs, as well as my pack of stimmed marines, pretty much decimate that.
Point being: I think Terran has to keep planting static defenses in the late game. Even a good player like myself tends to float tons of money late game. The solution is to drop tons of CCs at a crucial choke point and defend from that point. As long as you have vikings and ghosts, it's surprisingly difficult for toss to break the position.
I know it requires a lot of babysitting to build PFs and it's time consuming to plant them, but this way, if you're anything like me in TvP late game, you don't get rolled after you lose that one big engagement.
can we get a replay? I'm curious to see what this is
So...what do people do versus Broodlords after Ghost nerf? Vikings just get wrecked by fungal growth. Both late game TvP and TvZ are just so damn scary, I really don't know how I'm supposed to win :/
On March 16 2012 19:59 Scila wrote: So...what do people do versus Broodlords after Ghost nerf? Vikings just get wrecked by fungal growth. Both late game TvP and TvZ are just so damn scary, I really don't know how I'm supposed to win :/
Multiple drops in different and far areas if brood lords, marauders if ultras
I've been having trouble pressuring Protoss after doing a 1 Rax FE. Am I supposed to have medivacs out before the 10 minute timing push?
I usually end up with a pretty large bio ball around 9:30 with stim that I use to attack. What ends up happening is I get caught on his ramp while his new Colossi fries everything, then I lose to the counter attack. If I chose to not commit and head home, I end up getting out-teched and losing late game.
Are there any really comprehensive guides out there for this style against P? I'm a diamond terran.
In TVP when you do gasless fe into 3 rax, what's the best way to deal with a blink stalker allin? I saw a fast second gas, no robo or gateways. I didn't dare float my cc out so I decided to bunker up my ramp. His push hit at like 7:30 with a ton of b stalkers.
He picked off my tech lab so I coulnd get stim out. He then did blink micro while I was a moving my stuff into his army. He didn't lost much while I did. He proceeded to pick off things and he was able to just kill me after a couple of blink ''harassment''.
So, you do gasless fe into 3 rax and you're wondering what he's up to after not seeing him expand and building a fast second gas. What do you do to possibly scout this with gasless fe and how do you deal with a big b stalk ball? I remember a game between MC and MVP where MVP pulled his workers. Maybe it's something like that?
A bunker or two in your nat and a sensor tower in your main. Seriously, try the sensor tower - if you're waiting there when stalkers blink up, they're awful.
On March 16 2012 05:20 iNViCiOUZ wrote: Holy Shit fast all go watch qxc play against white-ra (http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/qxc) Late game terran with speed reapers alot of Raven and mariners!
ThorZain uses reapers v. Protoss late game as well.
I think Reapers have a two-pronged benefit in late game:
1) Harass/Deny Expansions 2) Counter Chargelots, which as we know don't have a great counter as Terran.
I like the idea, but am not keen if this will be a lasting change against Protoss.
I was able to beat a high GM Protoss player late game (310k score each player), by PFing and mass turreting the middle, getting +2 armor and +1 range, massing ghosts, marine/medivac, and vikings. Then I massed OCs, depleted all the bases on my side of the map, and forced him to engage as I nuked/dropped his expos. Meanwhile I set up 4 starports and started pumping out BCs, which I concomitantly upgraded to 3/3 while holding the middle.
What ensued was pretty hilarious as he could do nothing against this set up. He would trade his army down for very little supply of my army as he clearly had no idea how to deal with this. (Clearly the reverse of what we normally experience as Terran).
Of course I can think of plenty of things he could have done to counter this.
However, he ended up trying for a fleeting of carriers with mothership. Turns out yamagun and 3/3 BCs, as well as my pack of stimmed marines, pretty much decimate that.
Point being: I think Terran has to keep planting static defenses in the late game. Even a good player like myself tends to float tons of money late game. The solution is to drop tons of CCs at a crucial choke point and defend from that point. As long as you have vikings and ghosts, it's surprisingly difficult for toss to break the position.
I know it requires a lot of babysitting to build PFs and it's time consuming to plant them, but this way, if you're anything like me in TvP late game, you don't get rolled after you lose that one big engagement.
can we get a replay? I'm curious to see what this is
TvZ mid/late game after a reactor hellion expand. How do you guys deal with infestors ? I tried dropping but nowaday they just build 2 spine and a spore and the drops are shut down. If I try to push to his third he counters my main. Also pushing feels extremely slow because you cant be clumping your units and you need to slow push with your tanks. Infestors are just so hard to deal with ! You guys have any tips for me ?
Well, guys I am back into sc2 after three forced weeks stop, because of my unability to play tvp properly; I came back, and it seems tvp is the only matchup I can play. Today I even beat an high master protoss(rank 3 eu), while I struggle for low-master terran , and lowmaster zerg.
I hope someone can help me, is there some guides on internet? I would like to see some tvz and tvt guides, updated, I mean not old but "gold"; in this forum all the well done guides seems to be for protoss..
And don't ask for replay, guys, it's useless to do so because you will basically realise that it seems that when I play tvt and tvz , it feels like I've got no clue about these two matchup works and why you do that or this move.
I would like to use an aggressive style, I improved a lot on multitasking! Please suggest me some very high apm guide; I want to push even further my limits ! Thank you for help
In TVP when you do gasless fe into 3 rax, what's the best way to deal with a blink stalker allin? I saw a fast second gas, no robo or gateways. I didn't dare float my cc out so I decided to bunker up my ramp. His push hit at like 7:30 with a ton of b stalkers.
He picked off my tech lab so I coulnd get stim out. He then did blink micro while I was a moving my stuff into his army. He didn't lost much while I did. He proceeded to pick off things and he was able to just kill me after a couple of blink ''harassment''.
So, you do gasless fe into 3 rax and you're wondering what he's up to after not seeing him expand and building a fast second gas. What do you do to possibly scout this with gasless fe and how do you deal with a big b stalk ball? I remember a game between MC and MVP where MVP pulled his workers. Maybe it's something like that?
Sensor tower and cancelling stim for concussive shells seems to be the strongest response I've seen so far. If protoss does an offensive blink into your base the sensor tower allows you to intercept his stalkers while they still have blink on cooldown. Concussive allows you to do something very similar where the stalkers can't blink back to micro vs it so it allows you to pick off a ton of stalker even if you only have 1-2 marauder out by that point.
It's also ok to cancel stim vs this as there's no need to convert directly into pressure at protoss' front. They already had to invest a lot into the blink stalkers to aggro, so it's ok to delay when your stim finishes as you're no longer trying to hit any timings to punish them being greedy or anything like that.
On that note, you also want to make sure you're placing your barracks such that the addons aren't vulnerable to protoss blinking up. You want to make sure they would have to walk a bit at least in order to get to anything mission critical like your tech lab.
Some triggers on scouting this: - late expand - 2nd gas (you already noted these two) - high stalker count @ ~ 6 minutes (most p try to balance out their gateway units, but with blink stalkers they try to ommit zealots and sentry as much as possible) - 3rd pylon should go down no later than 4:20 (can help indicate if it's a proxy or not and help you with scouting various other 1 base plays) - (he talks about scouting vs protoss in general to help with triggers on scouting various other 1 base plays)
do anyone have replays of 1 rax expanding in tvp i wana see the transitions and timings after succesfuly passed the early game of these or wanna give me some headlines of how i should execute it ,im talking after making the 1 rax fe thx alot in advance
On March 17 2012 01:04 ShakaDEVIRGO wrote: do anyone have replays of 1 rax expanding in tvp i wana see the transitions and timings after succesfuly passed the early game of these or wanna give me some headlines of how i should execute it ,im talking after making the 1 rax fe thx alot in advance
That's the exact reason why I don't think people should 1 rax FE. You're doing it because people tell you to. Not because you know why it's good, or what to do/scout follow up. I don't think people should practice 1 rax FE until they actually are ready to learn the game better.
Typical? 3-4 rax, 1 tech lab, get shells, get stim, get to medics, get an ebay and +1, take third around 10 min.
It's all based off scouting and shit. You can't just blindly do the same opening.
i know that im used to scouting and know when im safe ,the thing is i was a high master p i recently swithced to t and i dont know any build orders besides 2 rax in tvp,im just asking some pointers if eveyithing went smoothly in the early game like when i should add my gases, if i scouted double forge when to add ghosts,if scouted colos when to add startport that sorts of things thats why i prefered replays but if u can give some adivice it would really help
On March 17 2012 05:54 ShakaDEVIRGO wrote: i know that im used to scouting and know when im safe ,the thing is i was a high master p i recently swithced to t and i dont know any build orders besides 2 rax in tvp,im just asking some pointers if eveyithing went smoothly in the early game like when i should add my gases, if i scouted double forge when to add ghosts,if scouted colos when to add startport that sorts of things thats why i prefered replays but if u can give some adivice it would really help
Ghosts, for me, come when I see charge because I know HTs are coming soon. If I see double forge, I get double ebay, and continue on my way. When you add your gasses depends on you. You can do it early and be defensive, or late after a marine check poke.
On March 16 2012 19:59 Scila wrote: So...what do people do versus Broodlords after Ghost nerf? Vikings just get wrecked by fungal growth. Both late game TvP and TvZ are just so damn scary, I really don't know how I'm supposed to win :/
Multiple drops in different and far areas if brood lords, marauders if ultras
Yeah I drop a lot, but how do I deal with the huge broodlord/infestor ball that pushes my bases?? Vikings get fungaled and killed off by corruptors very easily.
On March 16 2012 19:59 Scila wrote: So...what do people do versus Broodlords after Ghost nerf? Vikings just get wrecked by fungal growth. Both late game TvP and TvZ are just so damn scary, I really don't know how I'm supposed to win :/
Multiple drops in different and far areas if brood lords, marauders if ultras
Yeah I drop a lot, but how do I deal with the huge broodlord/infestor ball that pushes my bases?? Vikings get fungaled and killed off by corruptors very easily.
You need to split your Vikings into a U shape so fungals hit 1-2 max. And then when fungals are gone, you can stim marines into brood lords. That's the idea anyway. And also attack the main to take out any tech like greater spire or pool or something like that
I'm silver level, so my macro is immaculate yet but I'm sincerely trying. What I'm having trouble with is pushing a Zerg, especially a greedy one, off of expansions. I feel like with Protoss I can get a 3x MMM drop into a 3rd or nat and basically run through it without any problem as long as his army is even a bit off position, but with Zerg I feel like any drop that I don't entirely commit to (like, loading up an entire comp into) is overrun by speedlings following pulled drones and then I lose the whole drop and do little to no damage.
Oh well, maybe a subversive approach doesn't work so well, time to push his front door. Oh wait, if he's at all vigilant about creep spread then he knows my exact army comp and how to run around it unless he's macroing far worse than me I see a cloud of zerglings run at me. Suddenly, mech is deeply weakened as my hellions get surrounded, a bio ball gets eaten by banelings and anything else just seems ineffective. And it's not like I even feel like I can get out of my base if he's got muta harass.
What's the most effective way to deal with some of these issues besides just, get more shit than your opponent?
On March 17 2012 11:32 Vertazontal wrote: I've been having a lot of trouble against zerg.
I'm silver level, so my macro is immaculate yet but I'm sincerely trying. What I'm having trouble with is pushing a Zerg, especially a greedy one, off of expansions. I feel like with Protoss I can get a 3x MMM drop into a 3rd or nat and basically run through it without any problem as long as his army is even a bit off position, but with Zerg I feel like any drop that I don't entirely commit to (like, loading up an entire comp into) is overrun by speedlings following pulled drones and then I lose the whole drop and do little to no damage.
Oh well, maybe a subversive approach doesn't work so well, time to push his front door. Oh wait, if he's at all vigilant about creep spread then he knows my exact army comp and how to run around it unless he's macroing far worse than me I see a cloud of zerglings run at me. Suddenly, mech is deeply weakened as my hellions get surrounded, a bio ball gets eaten by banelings and anything else just seems ineffective. And it's not like I even feel like I can get out of my base if he's got muta harass.
What's the most effective way to deal with some of these issues besides just, get more shit than your opponent?
Don't just treat drops as ways to do physical damage. What I mean is - you can do damage in other ways than killing stuff with drops. A big reason why drops are so good is that it forces the opponent to respond. If his army is in one place, he's not in another. Drop and move your guys up a bit, try and Save your marines and when the Zerg relocates again to your main army, drop again. Repeat till you're killing stuff.
And Mutas are just a matter of turrets and thors. If you get enough - they can't really do anything
EPT
I think this will help me hold it next time.
