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On February 04 2012 09:46 saaaa wrote: is it clever to build 4 techlabs and 1 reactor on my first 5 rax in TvP if my opponent went for the standard collosus+gateway style?
and just adjust it with maybe 3 reactor and 2 techlabs if he went for archon+zealot?
or should i always go for 3 techlabs and 2 reactor to increase my dps?
On February 04 2012 09:46 saaaa wrote: is it clever to build 4 techlabs and 1 reactor on my first 5 rax in TvP if my opponent went for the standard collosus+gateway style?
and just adjust it with maybe 3 reactor and 2 techlabs if he went for archon+zealot?
or should i always go for 3 techlabs and 2 reactor to increase my dps?
I'd advise against going 3 Reactors + 2 Labs even against a Zealot/Archon composition, because you'll still need to build some Marauders to tank/slow Zealots, but most importantly enough Ghosts to EMP Archons into oblivion, so stay on 3 Labs + 2 Reactors.
what is the best way to deal with mass carrier from protoss that are fully upgraded? i prefer MMM against protoss so when i discover my opponent is going mass carrier i have no viking upgrades. what is the best way to deal with this with 3-3 marines, marauders, medivacs, and 3-3 siege tanks?
On February 06 2012 10:00 PinheadXXXXXX wrote: what is the best way to deal with mass carrier from protoss that are fully upgraded? i prefer MMM against protoss so when i discover my opponent is going mass carrier i have no viking upgrades. what is the best way to deal with this with 3-3 marines, marauders, medivacs, and 3-3 siege tanks?
Don't let him go carriers.
If he does go carriers, 3-3 marines, ghosts (very important- EMP carpet is a must) and +1 attack vikings are enough. If you have any marauders at all, send them around the map to snipe nexi. Against a turtle+carrier-ing player, you generally either 1) go kill him, or 2) (if he's playing a very tight, defensive b/o) expand and add reactor rax, with as many upgrades as you can. Him going for carriers buys you time, and time is all you need to get vikings + ghost count up, with a strong marine force to supplement.
You can ignore the paragraph above, however, and just remember this: If he goes carriers, kill him.
Also, a guy who dumps his gas into carriers won't have as many sentries, hts, and colossi-- heavy marine play should be very strong due to the lack of splash damage on his part.
I'm a high plat Terran struggling against Diamond T and Z players.
For Z, I go marine/tank/helion for early game. I do a 4helion drop with my first medvac. I tend to get Blue flame before Siege mode. From there, if I see roaches, I make some banshees.
The problem with this is a roach/muta combo response. Since I only have a few marines, and none of my other units shoot up, I tend to helplessly get picked off by mutas. I don't want to get rid of helions because mass lings is always a threat in TvZ.
Is there a way I can polish my build order? I get 2 rax (1 tech, 1 reactor), 2 factory (again, 1 tech, 1 reactor) and 1 starport (techlab)
I was thinking of going two techlabb'ed factrories to pump out a Thor fast.
As for Terran, I do a very similar build, but I focus even less on marines. I go marine/helion/tank/viking and get banshees only for early game harassment. I generally pump helions, tanks and vikings nonstop.
I get 2 rax (1 with each addon), 2 factory (1 with each addon) and 2 starports (1 with tech lab, and the other stays naked until later on)
As for this build, I find that I am very vulnerable to Terrans who unsiege and move in on me. Generally, players who go for a MMM build are a pain. Late game BCs are also hard to deal with.
I'd be glad if anyone could look at my main strategies and tell me their opinion. I love getting helions for harassment and map control, and I rely mainly on tanks with either marines (TvZ) or Vikings (TvT) for support.
On February 04 2012 10:24 rebuffering wrote: Hey guys, was wondering what people think is the best unit composition late game TvT. Im having huge difficulty right now, since i love really long games, but dont quite understand the money unit comp to go for. Been going sky terran, viking/BC with good upgrades. But then someone who goes mass viking will kill my air army, and then they will get viking/BC, and i will be forced to try and get back air advantage.
So would it be better to say max out on vikings and just have like maximum 3 BC's or something? Also, what do you guys think of viking/raven? Ive been messing around with it, but Thors seriously screw up everything, since HSM does 100 damage + splash, its takes 3 HSM to kill one Thor, which isnt exactly efficient since youd ideally want to use those on grouped up vikings. i guess mass auto turret would be good vs the Thors maybe? Anyways im just rambling now since im so confused!! halp please!
probably viking/bc/raven of some sort i suppose. if you get too many vikings, at some point they can just land all their vikings and just kill you as your bcs try their best to keep up
PDD works against thor air attack too, it probably is a way better use than HSM on thors. auto turrets probably just tickle them
question for thread: is there some sort of tvt mech guide? when i go bio, it is ok if i live past 10 mins. IF
I have come to the conclusion that scouting beyond looking for proxys/6pools is for the most part useless. While just trying to blind counter pays off more then wasting resources such as an early scan to make sure I know what my opponents doing. Someone please tell me I'm wrong and then give me some advice for scouting with scans because the majority of the time I try it I end up not seeing anything important as it's hidden some place random that I'm not likely to scan looking for it.
I am currently toying around with an early scouting rax as I find that it has a much higher chance of seeing what I need to see even though it is more expensive then a scan. I really don't like playing blind but I'm just running out of ideas to be able to figure out what my protoss / terran opponents are doing zerg is a completely different story as they don't even make an army until your fighting them.
On February 06 2012 16:41 xJaCEx wrote: I have come to the conclusion that scouting beyond looking for proxys/6pools is for the most part useless. While just trying to blind counter pays off more then wasting resources such as an early scan to make sure I know what my opponents doing. Someone please tell me I'm wrong and then give me some advice for scouting with scans because the majority of the time I try it I end up not seeing anything important as it's hidden some place random that I'm not likely to scan looking for it.
I am currently toying around with an early scouting rax as I find that it has a much higher chance of seeing what I need to see even though it is more expensive then a scan. I really don't like playing blind but I'm just running out of ideas to be able to figure out what my protoss / terran opponents are doing zerg is a completely different story as they don't even make an army until your fighting them.
I'm slowly learning that in the early game doing pokes can give you as much or more information than a scan. Scanning itself is like panning for gold, and you have to pay for it; if you get something really good, awesome! But there's a decent chance you won't actually hit anything, or worse, you'll hit something, make an assumption off of it, and itll be against a zerg who also put a roach warren at his natural or something that you don't even know exists because you're basing your entire game plan off of NOT scouting a roach warren.
I like to run in periodically with a hellion or two, or poke with banshees, or a drop, or a reaper, or just an attack with the potential to pull back, burning my scan THEN at the front of his base to make sure I'm not suiciding my army possibly.
On February 06 2012 13:24 Adrenalinz wrote: I'm a high plat Terran struggling against Diamond T and Z players.
For Z, I go marine/tank/helion for early game. I do a 4helion drop with my first medvac. I tend to get Blue flame before Siege mode. From there, if I see roaches, I make some banshees.
The problem with this is a roach/muta combo response. Since I only have a few marines, and none of my other units shoot up, I tend to helplessly get picked off by mutas. I don't want to get rid of helions because mass lings is always a threat in TvZ.
Is there a way I can polish my build order? I get 2 rax (1 tech, 1 reactor), 2 factory (again, 1 tech, 1 reactor) and 1 starport (techlab)
I was thinking of going two techlabb'ed factrories to pump out a Thor fast.
As for Terran, I do a very similar build, but I focus even less on marines. I go marine/helion/tank/viking and get banshees only for early game harassment. I generally pump helions, tanks and vikings nonstop.
I get 2 rax (1 with each addon), 2 factory (1 with each addon) and 2 starports (1 with tech lab, and the other stays naked until later on)
As for this build, I find that I am very vulnerable to Terrans who unsiege and move in on me. Generally, players who go for a MMM build are a pain. Late game BCs are also hard to deal with.
I'd be glad if anyone could look at my main strategies and tell me their opinion. I love getting helions for harassment and map control, and I rely mainly on tanks with either marines (TvZ) or Vikings (TvT) for support.
Thanks.
For TvZ it seems like you are spreading yourself very thin tech wise. Just try to play a standard marine tank medivac style. Hellion are fine early on, usually good to open with, and are still useful in the mid game but they do two things that make them not too appealing for continuous use in the mid game. (unless going for mech)
One this that they take up minerals that you could be using to make marines;building 2 at a time @100 minerals each uses up a lot of minerals that could be used to build turrets and marines to deal with your mutalisk problem. The second is that getting two factory's before getting a third base will really delay the third and upgrades. Getting one starport without a reactor really limits your medivac count early on which make your marines a lot stronger against mutas and lings.
If you focus just on getting a marine tank medivac composition with nice marine up-grades your mid-game will be a lot stronger and mutalisk won't be such a big problem.
For TVT is seems that your problem is again spreading your tech too thin. If you don't like going for a lot of marines I suggest just going for mech. If you are not going to invest into a lot of barracks and upgrades for them marines are not too useful. You have to be really careful with making sure you don't end up with a little of this or a little of that or someone who commits with one style can easily crush your mismatched army. For fixing you 2nd problem in TvT you would have to provide a replay. The other guy a moving into you and winning could be due to a lot of things. Is he... -macroing better and thus has a bigger army -have better upgrades -catching you out of position -have a better army composition you can look at replays and see what went wrong and try to adjust it for future games.
As for BCs try to scout a lot in the late game, you won't need a lot of mules so scanning and scouting should be a bigger priority. If you see BC production try to attack his army as his will be generally smaller while he techs. Meanwhile build vikings marines and more starports.
TL;DR Pick a certain tech path for the mid game ie mech, marine tank medivac or bio and stick to it or you will be spread to thin, have weak upgrades and die to a lot of stuff.
hey guys, here is a TVP (im high diamond terran) and i dont know what went wrong. i tried to be active with my army, denied his third but it was impossible to do any damage with drops and then i just get crushed in the big engagement. http://drop.sc/106271
at 16:00 (the first big fight) my macro slipped but the game was over. If the protoss can get his third up i lose. Always.
Many people have asked how to properly 1-1-1. I don't know if this is 'proper' but it's just some troll games I played recently leveling names. Anywhere from 700-1k masters protoss here.
Some with fast cloak and subsequent push, others with very fast 2 banshee 2 tank marine scv timing to hit at like... 8:45-9:15..
Just a few examples. I can't find the posts from this thread, but I hope this helps, if at all.
What is a good, safe build for TvT? I've been doing Thorzain's opening, which is an early expansion with 3 rax, 4 SCVs in gas, getting a lot of marines fast with combat shield and stim, then pushing with 2 medivacs and a tank, but often times I'll get pushed with a fast marine/tank/viking ball and lose. If he attacks when stim is done then I can easily run forward and kill the tanks, then be ahead, but I'm finding it difficult to do that sometimes, especially if stim isn't finished. I am playing against diamond Terrans and it is one of my weaker match-ups.
The point: Regardless of the opening I chose, I seem to always be behind. What is a good solid and safe build in TvT?
EDIT: Nevermind, I've found by reading through the forums that many people have trouble against a late expand build like that without hitting their attack before they siege.
NEW QUESTION: What is a good 1-base TvT strategy for smaller maps? Are reaper rushes good in Diamond? I'm at a loss for what to do against another Terran on a map like Xel'naga Caverns when, if I fast expand, he's denying my expansion behind a hard early push, while getting his own at the same time.
On February 07 2012 22:46 Seppuku wrote: NEW QUESTION: What is a good 1-base TvT strategy for smaller maps? Are reaper rushes good in Diamond? I'm at a loss for what to do against another Terran on a map like Xel'naga Caverns when, if I fast expand, he's denying my expansion behind a hard early push, while getting his own at the same time.
On xel'naga I 1 1 1 and Medivac drop thier main from the bottom, with a banshee marines and a hellion. Sometimes Ill get seige and a tank to back it up. I don't know if it's "great", but it works a lot if you're purely committed to 1 base play.
I've started playing terran a bit, usually play protoss and I'm in high diamond. I'm doing my terran games on the korean server so I don't screw up my ladder points on EU.
Haven't played much at all and I notice koreans are considerably better than EU folks, I am in mid gold now and get outmacroed by silver players... I guess I'm not used to macro with terran yet
Anyway, in TvT I am playing thorzain's build with one rax expand into three rax, with fast upgrades and so on. The thing is I don't understand how to engage terrans who go one base with fast tanks and medivacs. I try to move out and engage him when he is not sieged. I have about 5-8 more marines than him, with combat shield, but his army still wins (because of medivacs?). I just need like 2-3 more mins for my medivacs + tanks to finish.
Wish I could upload a replay but it doesnt seem to work with replayfu, and I guess you non-korean players cant view them anyway.
TL;DR How to engage an early terran army with tanks + medivacs if I have only marines with combat shield?
I'd recommend using drop.sc for a replay website, the interface is super easy to use if the other websites are buggy or giving you trouble.
If you're up against a 1-basing terran who's all-inning you with tanks, you will need to pull scvs to defeat him, and it's okay to do so-- you've got plenty of extra scvs if you went for a fast expansion, even if you lose some you'll be ahead economically. The medivacs make a big difference in terms of stopping power, and add a lot of tankiness to his army. By pulling scvs you will be able to tip the battle in you favor, especially if you can catch him unsieged.
Okay that makes alot of sense, how about scouting? Should I "waste" a scan when my I get my exp up? Or should I have a scv outside his main to see if/when he moves out or gets an exp?
Ok, you spot your opponent moving past the xel'naga tower with 11 marines, 2 tanks, 1 medivac. At home you have 14 marines, with combat shield. You have 13ish extra scvs, plus mules. You try to engage and snipe his tanks with your marines, and as a result, lose a lot of marines.
I think probably what you wanted to do here was pull 13 scvs, and engage as he was sieging up, so he couldn't retreat. By having two small engagements rather than 1 big one, you let him heal his marines in between-- and by focusing his unsieged tanks, you reduced your ability to kill the real damage-dealers the marines. Most of your food advantage is in scvs, so try to use that in combat.
EPT
