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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
On February 03 2012 00:54 zende wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 00:28 kranten wrote:
A few questions:
How many turrets do I need to be safe from cloacked banshees? Or should I get a viking and a raven instead?
How do I stop a one base attack with like 4 banshees, a few tanks and marines? (the one you use against protoss)
In the higher leagues, will there be more or less 1 base play? (I'm in silver and sometimes play against gold) I've lost almost all my TvTs in wich my opponent didn't take a second base, my early game really needs improvement I guess. 1. There isn't really a number - you have to learn how to cover the important buildings in your base with as few turrets at possible. If you sim city well, I would say 1-2 at every orbital and then add some around your production buildings so he cant pick those off. Remember that turrets give sight even if it's out of range to attack. This means that even if your turret doesn't hit the banshee, it gives you detection making your marines able to hit the banshee even if it's cloaked. 2. I just won a game where I 1 rax FE'd against this build and I managed to hold the push. It's important that you scout it as early as possible. What I did was that I rushed my factory & starport to get my siege tanks+siege tech and a viking out, all while I delayed his push by poking at his army while it was walking to my base, making him siege and waste time. So basically, save your mules for scans and get tanks of your own. Preferably get a raven from your starport but if time (and gas) is not allowing it, go for a fast viking to get air dominance making him unable to push. 3. I'd say there's much less 1 base play. People almost always FE against me except some 1 basing terrans and a couple of protosses.
Thanks! I used the fast expand BO from drewbie's guide, it worked great: someone did the same push, held it off easily and he gg'd. :D
@blazing:
T_T D:
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On February 03 2012 01:16 TRnoSki wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 23:39 Blazinghand wrote:Ok guys i'm gonna be a bit tied up in the next couple of days, but I'll be able to answer short questions. No replay analysis from me until next week though Y_Y On February 02 2012 23:32 TRnoSki wrote:
I always stop building SCVs at around the 50/60/70 mark, anyone got any tips to remind myself to do it?
Such as, everytime I X, build an SCV. Unfortunately, building SCV is the highest-frequency macro action you'll take (3.5 times per in-game minute), so there is no metric by which to remember to build scvs other than building scvs. I like to get into a rhythm of every few seconds cycling through my production buildings, including my CC, to make sure they're making stuff. Also, 70 scvs is considered by many to be entirely acceptable, given terran's access to mules. Ok, Thank you very much, I am going to try and get into the habbit of cycling through my buildings. Also, another question...turrent placement. When I play, and there is potentially crippling blow from mutas incoming, I will put turrents at locations where they could come from around my base(s), but when I watch streams, I notice that players will put about 2 or 3 turrents in a line at certain locations, so basically, why should I stack up turrents instead of spreading? The only thing I can think of is if they come at me, a cluter of turrents can do much more damage than just the one, but surely that opens up gaps which mutas can exploit and get to production buildings etc.
The idea is that after a certain point, there's nothing a single turret can do, so you might as well put them in one spot where they can support each other rather than be meaningless.
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TvP harassment question: 1 medivac with 8 marines / 2 medivacs with 4 marauders / 3-5 Banshees with cloak.
What option is the best? Medivacs are hard to control because you have to pick up your units, sometimes there's immediate threat as soon as you start dropping units. You then have to stop the drop, select all the units and click on the medivacs to load them as fast as possible and then run away.
5 Banshees + 1 Raven / 1 Viking to take care of an observer is a mobile group. You can move away as soon as there's pressure.
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On February 03 2012 04:49 KenDM wrote:
TvP harassment question: 1 medivac with 8 marines / 2 medivacs with 4 marauders / 3-5 Banshees with cloak.
What option is the best? Medivacs are hard to control because you have to pick up your units, sometimes there's immediate threat as soon as you start dropping units. You then have to stop the drop, select all the units and click on the medivacs to load them as fast as possible and then run away.
5 Banshees + 1 Raven / 1 Viking to take care of an observer is a mobile group. You can move away as soon as there's pressure.
That's not really a fair comparison. First, There's an infrastructural problem in the extra tech lab starport, which you often won't have time for without making a second port on three bases.
Second of all, let's look at costs.
8 Marines/1 Medivac is 500/100. 4 Marauders/1 Medivac is 500/200. 3 Banshees with cloak is 650/500, and 5 is 950/700.
Of course 3 cloak banshees is more appealling, but banshees are less useful in large-scale engagements per cost so you're sinking money into less versatile stuff, and the harassment price is a whole lot higher.
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On February 02 2012 22:57 Nibbler89 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 08:15 iAmJeffReY wrote:
Blazing -- lol sad thing is I didn't know this...
I was SO much APM manually splitting and sieging as they get where I want them. This is a life saver haha. I can turn it down to 180 apm now. Phew.
<---- noob T. Completely changed my TvZ when I learned it  I'm ready to rematch you btw 
vs nooby old me?
I'm a scrub. I couldn't beat you ever!!
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How do i end TvZ's faster? I usually get a decent advantage with some early agression but Zergs always manage to drag the game out. I'm in platinum btw.
A replay (i have some more): http://drop.sc/103633
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On February 03 2012 04:49 KenDM wrote:
TvP harassment question: 1 medivac with 8 marines / 2 medivacs with 4 marauders / 3-5 Banshees with cloak.
What option is the best? Medivacs are hard to control because you have to pick up your units, sometimes there's immediate threat as soon as you start dropping units. You then have to stop the drop, select all the units and click on the medivacs to load them as fast as possible and then run away.
5 Banshees + 1 Raven / 1 Viking to take care of an observer is a mobile group. You can move away as soon as there's pressure.
Making 5 banshees and a raven/ viking would take way too much time. If you are going to do banshee harass you either want to only make two or three banshees(send two out after done) or have a mech plan in mind after the harass. Cloaked banshees can be a powerful counter to collusus, but you will need to snipe the observer.
I personally like banshee play because it is very fast. You can pop in and out of a base much faster than a medivac and losing them is actually cheaper than losing a medivac full or marines/marauders.
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hi guys, high diamond on eu server here, i need some help for my tvz. I lose almost every game and i feel kinda lost.
I feel in this match-up, the game depends only on the 10 minutes push (just before muta) and if it fails, the game is over, even if its b3 vs b3. Because when mutas are out, i cant do anything and I have to defend my 3 bases for the rest of the game.
I split my marines to prevent any harassment but it allows free spots for the zerg to a move his glings/banelings.
http://drop.sc/103645
this is a replay where i fail my push (yeah my micro is pretty bad), and then i get crushed. (I tried differents pushs like tanks/marines (drewbie's guide) but its the same problem).
Of course, i could throw down bunkers and turtle until 200/200 or wait for upgrades but if i do that when i push, zerg is T3, on b5 and the creep reaches my base.
tl;dr I cant put any pressure cause of mutas.
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On February 03 2012 00:28 kranten wrote:
A few questions:
How many turrets do I need to be safe from cloacked banshees? Or should I get a viking and a raven instead?
How many turrets depends if you're good with marines. I'd get a raven only if I knew banshees were coming or if I otherwise needed that raven (against Protoss you just make it anyway because of PDD vs stalkers, against Terran this isn't so simple). You can have a viking (or a couple of marines) and just enough turrets for detection, too (Turrets have a larger detection range than attack range).
How do I stop a one base attack with like 4 banshees, a few tanks and marines? (the one you use against protoss)
By the time he has 4 banshees you should have enough stuff to kill it, that is enough marines to do it or already making vikings, and either turrets or just scans for vision. Vikings are preferable and you need vikings anyway, unless you're doing the Thorzain build, in which case you have plenty enough marines and after having his 4 banshees die the opponent just can't have enough stuff to defend against your counterattack.
In the higher leagues, will there be more or less 1 base play? (I'm in silver and sometimes play against gold) I've lost almost all my TvTs in wich my opponent didn't take a second base, my early game really needs improvement I guess.
Perhaps because of all the cheesing and all-inning in bronze and silver. I'm in gold and there are one-base all-ins or first expanding between 7:00-10:00 behind a push, or even outright cheese off 1 base, but fast expanding and continued expanding is the norm. One-basing is probably found up until grandmaster with timing pushes (it certainly works in masters) but I suppose the tendency decreases with league. You need to be able to defend against a one-base push while expanding. Use your advantage in having your production facilities and repair SCVs (or even melee support crowd SCVs) closer to the front line than your opponent. Also, abuse bunkers. They require investment up front but they cost you 25 minerals each in the end and they make the attack less cost-effective for the opponent. Also, being very fast and unforgetting with SCV production and other production does help you a lot in defending against a one-baser when you're on two bases.
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How do you stop a big stalker, sentry, and 2-3 Immortal push off a 2base Protoss? I've tried mass bunkers and more marines than marauders, but force-fields negate my SCV repair 
+ Show Spoiler +Like the 2base pushes from last night's GSL games
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How many turrets depends if you're good with marines. I'd get a raven only if I knew banshees were coming or if I otherwise needed that raven (against Protoss you just make it anyway because of PDD vs stalkers, against Terran this isn't so simple). You can have a viking (or a couple of marines) and just enough turrets for detection, too (Turrets have a larger detection range than attack range).
Raven + 2 vikings is the universal 'safe' vs cloakshee unit combo.
Then, the subsequent push you use auto turrets, not PDD. It works just fine with raven first in TvT into double viking marine/tank/medic push off 2 base after fending their cloakshee harass
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Hello!
After playing around with different openers in TvP, I find the 1rax FE into 4rax to be the safest. I follow up with a medivac timing, and I feel that I really need to do damage with it. I often straight up kill my opponent, but I often don't do very well and then I just kind of die. Are there anyone who could help me with how I should be thinking when doing the 1raxFE4rax opener? Should I do a 2/4-medivac push? Should I just do a little dropping but set up for a third instead? I do not like turtling, but I feel that it is a huge commitment to attack with my initial medivacs, and if he defends I feel so behind that I almost always loses the game from there.
Any thoughts on this? What is the optimal time to attack? I can't really do anything before medivacs, can I?
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On February 03 2012 10:43 krooked wrote:
Hello!
After playing around with different openers in TvP, I find the 1rax FE into 4rax to be the safest. I follow up with a medivac timing, and I feel that I really need to do damage with it. I often straight up kill my opponent, but I often don't do very well and then I just kind of die. Are there anyone who could help me with how I should be thinking when doing the 1raxFE4rax opener? Should I do a 2/4-medivac push? Should I just do a little dropping but set up for a third instead? I do not like turtling, but I feel that it is a huge commitment to attack with my initial medivacs, and if he defends I feel so behind that I almost always loses the game from there.
Any thoughts on this? What is the optimal time to attack? I can't really do anything before medivacs, can I?
If you're going to do that specifically, you can afford to get +1 attack, stim, and combat shield with your four medivacs before you attack (everything will still finish as your four medivacs come out).
The bigger issue I think is that you're probably throwing a lot of units away, either by comitting too much to the attack, or by dropping his main or some other cute business and losing your whole army. Just poke his front. If you can do a alot of damage...do a lot of damage, if not, go home, make a few bunkers, throw down a second engi bay, get double ups, either more medivacs or vikings depending on what you're scouting, start a third, throw down more rax, and start ghost production. and if you occasionally want to try to harass him with a full medivac, as long as you know where he's vulnerable (again, scout), no harm no foul, i think.
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And, depending on your level of play, yes, there's a lot of things you can do before medivacs. Actually, regardless of your level of play there are a lot of openings that let you (or require you) to attack before medivacs.
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I am a diamond player meeting "top" diamond and low master players. I feel that if I go home and save all my units, I am entering a macro game and I have to play against a 200/200 4base deathball protoss which I really don't want to play against. I can survive 3/3 deathball vs deathball if we have been trading a lot and I haven't been killed by a counter attack, but if I just turtle I miss his composition, he can remax way to quickly and I can't finish him off if I wreck him in our engagement. I have really lost all faith in turtling against protoss. Even the top players are stating that you shouldn't play that way against protoss, so I am having trouble being aggressive if I turn around with my initial medivacs. Whoops there I am at three bases and maxed out and I have entered late game against toss without doing any damage
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On February 03 2012 11:28 krooked wrote:I am a diamond player meeting "top" diamond and low master players. I feel that if I go home and save all my units, I am entering a macro game and I have to play against a 200/200 4base deathball protoss which I really don't want to play against. I can survive 3/3 deathball vs deathball if we have been trading a lot and I haven't been killed by a counter attack, but if I just turtle I miss his composition, he can remax way to quickly and I can't finish him off if I wreck him in our engagement. I have really lost all faith in turtling against protoss. Even the top players are stating that you shouldn't play that way against protoss, so I am having trouble being aggressive if I turn around with my initial medivacs. Whoops there I am at three bases and maxed out and I have entered late game against toss without doing any damage
then don't turtle so hard?
move out more?
harrass more in the mid-game?
absolutely don't let him take his fourth?
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When I'm doing a 1 Rax FE, is it better to build a couple SCVs first out of the 2nd CC, or immediately turn it into an OC? Also, I feel like I can't harass a zerg after 10 minutes due to the handfuls of mutas wandering about. Please help!
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On February 03 2012 11:47 Angel_ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 11:28 krooked wrote:I am a diamond player meeting "top" diamond and low master players. I feel that if I go home and save all my units, I am entering a macro game and I have to play against a 200/200 4base deathball protoss which I really don't want to play against. I can survive 3/3 deathball vs deathball if we have been trading a lot and I haven't been killed by a counter attack, but if I just turtle I miss his composition, he can remax way to quickly and I can't finish him off if I wreck him in our engagement. I have really lost all faith in turtling against protoss. Even the top players are stating that you shouldn't play that way against protoss, so I am having trouble being aggressive if I turn around with my initial medivacs. Whoops there I am at three bases and maxed out and I have entered late game against toss without doing any damage then don't turtle so hard? move out more? harrass more in the mid-game? absolutely don't let him take his fourth?
Yes but that is my problem exactly. I feel that it is super dangerous moving out against protoss, and that my only timing to do damage is when my medivacs pop out. Its really really hard to attack into a protoss death ball, so I try to wait until he attacks me, when I am pre spread and my units don't clump up. In mid-game, before he gets high upgrades etc he is standing up his ramp and I can't walk up there, I will just get killed. I can of course drop him, but sometimes it does loads of damage, other times I'm just donating him units. Every time I try to be aggressive in the mid game I either A) Kill him, or B) Lose my army and die. If I see mid-battle that I am losing I can of course stim away but then I get shot in the back, followed home and then get raped by his counter attack. I'm trying to stay positive but do you understand my concerns ? It feels hard to not over commit, I can't just pick up and leave as I can against zerg for example. I can't rush things, and it makes it all the more fragile to be aggressive - because his army grows stronger while I have to walk with my unit all across the map. And if I lose my army the game is lost.
rep: http://drop.sc/103759
edit: Here is a replay where it evolves into a long macrogame. I do some drops but they are not very effective. He is VERY defensive. I feel my composition is OK against his, and I stand pre spread at my half of the map. I snipe his HT's and think "this is my timing" so I attack him. I could use some feedback on what I did wrong, and at what timings I, with the information I had, should feel strong and attack. As you can see my medivac push does nothing, and from there I just get my third up and viking production and I drop some. Please help me!!
Also excuse me for my whining at the end I always feel ashamed when "badmouthing" protoss players, its not their fault lol.
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I just had a thought. I don't know if it should go here but I find it hysterical.
2 base Marine battlecruiser against toss. go with 2-3 battlecruisers with/without a raven
pros and cons?
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On February 03 2012 12:00 rccars wrote:
When I'm doing a 1 Rax FE, is it better to build a couple SCVs first out of the 2nd CC, or immediately turn it into an OC? Also, I feel like I can't harass a zerg after 10 minutes due to the handfuls of mutas wandering about. Please help!
I always do, and see pro players, make orbital ASAP. You can drop when you know where his mutas are, i.e if he is in your mineral line you can go drop him. But dropping against a player going muta is of course harder than for example someone going infestor.
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EPT
