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On February 06 2012 05:09 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2012 09:46 saaaa wrote:
is it clever to build 4 techlabs and 1 reactor on my first 5 rax in TvP if my opponent went for the standard collosus+gateway style?
and just adjust it with maybe 3 reactor and 2 techlabs if he went for archon+zealot?
or should i always go for 3 techlabs and 2 reactor to increase my dps? I'd advise against going 3 Reactors + 2 Labs even against a Zealot/Archon composition, because you'll still need to build some Marauders to tank/slow Zealots, but most importantly enough Ghosts to EMP Archons into oblivion, so stay on 3 Labs + 2 Reactors.
and what should i do against a collosi / gateway style? 4 techlab and 1 reactor? or just 3 techlab+2 reactor?
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hi, any idea what the trick is to get a worker build something to switch sides building so It doesn't get killed as easily?
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On February 08 2012 07:27 ThePianoDentist wrote:
hi, any idea what the trick is to get a worker build something to switch sides building so It doesn't get killed as easily?
Sadly, it's an algorithm we haven't figured out (yet), so it is all based on luck.
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You can rally the worker to one side and then stop building and it might come over to that side and when it starts up again it "might" not go back to the other side.
Anyhow I'v been working with my scout rax idea and its actually having ok results tho I'm still not sure it's better then just trying to blind counter builds. The way I get it to work is by just having 2 on gas until I build the 2nd scout rax and having a slightly delayed factory but the scouting info comes right when I would be building the port so I can decide to drop a 2nd fact or 2 more rax if I see it would benefit me. It kinda works good with the 111 build because I just get a reactor and lab ahead of time and can basically switch into any tech I need. I really think it is better then a scan in terms of scouting I get to see the whole opponents base for any hidden tech.
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On February 08 2012 07:27 ThePianoDentist wrote:
hi, any idea what the trick is to get a worker build something to switch sides building so It doesn't get killed as easily?
I'm assuming the context of this question is when the walling off builder is getting killed. Just tell him to stop building (press t) and then click him back to building and he will switch sides most of the time, if he doesn't just do it again and he will.
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On February 08 2012 02:36 huggab0y wrote:I've started playing terran a bit, usually play protoss and I'm in high diamond. I'm doing my terran games on the korean server so I don't screw up my ladder points on EU. Haven't played much at all and I notice koreans are considerably better than EU folks, I am in mid gold now and get outmacroed by silver players... I guess I'm not used to macro with terran yet  Anyway, in TvT I am playing thorzain's build with one rax expand into three rax, with fast upgrades and so on. The thing is I don't understand how to engage terrans who go one base with fast tanks and medivacs. I try to move out and engage him when he is not sieged. I have about 5-8 more marines than him, with combat shield, but his army still wins (because of medivacs?). I just need like 2-3 more mins for my medivacs + tanks to finish. Wish I could upload a replay but it doesnt seem to work with replayfu, and I guess you non-korean players cant view them anyway. TL;DR How to engage an early terran army with tanks + medivacs if I have only marines with combat shield?
I think you're talking about Thorzain's build from the day9 daily a short while back. If so, that build doesn't move out until after you have stim + medivacs and +1 is about to finish. When you say that you try to move out and engage him, do you mean he is sieging outside your base and bunny hopping into your natural?
If you are on 2 bases and your terran opponent is still on 1 base then you shouldn't be attacking into his main at all. You already have a huge lead with 2 base income vs his 1 base income. Grow your lead, take your 4th gas and start your own siege tank production and continue upgrading. Make sure you have a way to scout/deny him from taking hidden expansions.
A replay would really be helpful if I've misunderstood what you were describing.
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On February 08 2012 07:22 saaaa wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2012 05:09 TheDwf wrote:On February 04 2012 09:46 saaaa wrote:
is it clever to build 4 techlabs and 1 reactor on my first 5 rax in TvP if my opponent went for the standard collosus+gateway style?
and just adjust it with maybe 3 reactor and 2 techlabs if he went for archon+zealot?
or should i always go for 3 techlabs and 2 reactor to increase my dps? I'd advise against going 3 Reactors + 2 Labs even against a Zealot/Archon composition, because you'll still need to build some Marauders to tank/slow Zealots, but most importantly enough Ghosts to EMP Archons into oblivion, so stay on 3 Labs + 2 Reactors. and what should i do against a collosi / gateway style? 4 techlab and 1 reactor? or just 3 techlab+2 reactor?
I'd stay on 3/2, because nowadays Protoss are more prone to go Zealot-heavy with just enough Stalkers to defend Colossi against Vikings.
On February 08 2012 07:45 xJaCEx wrote:
Anyhow I'v been working with my scout rax idea and its actually having ok results tho I'm still not sure it's better then just trying to blind counter builds. The way I get it to work is by just having 2 on gas until I build the 2nd scout rax and having a slightly delayed factory but the scouting info comes right when I would be building the port so I can decide to drop a 2nd fact or 2 more rax if I see it would benefit me. It kinda works good with the 111 build because I just get a reactor and lab ahead of time and can basically switch into any tech I need. I really think it is better then a scan in terms of scouting I get to see the whole opponents base for any hidden tech.
Please don't come here to say that scouting is not worth it. This is terrible advice. Odds are you simply don't know what means the things you're seeing. A scouting Barracks with an 1-1-1 opening is useless, because you have access to early air units and you have all the tech needed to deal with anything, really. Building 2 blind Vikings while your opponent is going to 6-gate you simply means suicide. Blind units in TvP are really a terrible idea, just learn to scout with SCVs, army pokes, drops, flyng Factory and scans.
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Does anyone have a suggestion for a good 111 build to use TvT on smaller maps like Arid Plateau and/or Xel'Naga caverns?
I'm looking for a 111 with a strong timing push.
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at the moment i see it more and more..
in TvZ if they go for cloak banshee.. some players like supernova, nada wait for 2 banshee and dont show their first banshee to surprise the zerg with cloak and can they can easily snipe one queen even with overseer..
What are the advantages and what way should i do?
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On February 09 2012 00:21 saaaa wrote:
at the moment i see it more and more..
in TvZ if they go for cloak banshee.. some players like supernova, nada wait for 2 banshee and dont show their first banshee to surprise the zerg with cloak and can they can easily snipe one queen even with overseer..
What are the advantages and what way should i do?
I find banshee plays really weird against Zerg. I like the method to wait for 2 banshees. It also depends in what league you are in, because I find Zergs to play really save in the plat-diamond league and if they get a spore the banshee gets denied easily.
If you get away with a cloaked banshee build and the Zerg is not scouting the banshee and you don't scout an evo you go for 2 banshees with cloak. If you see an evo or he scouts your banshee I would go with the first banshee and still get cloak. (Maybe cancel cloak if the Zerg is building a lot of spores.)
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On February 08 2012 07:27 ThePianoDentist wrote:
hi, any idea what the trick is to get a worker build something to switch sides building so It doesn't get killed as easily?
Lets assume you are building the bunker next to a hatch (in between the minerals and the hatch). You can get your scv of building when he is on the right side run him over to the left side and let the scv build again. He will probably switch to the right side again and the drone has to run around to the other side (assuming he attacks your scv). And you might get lucky and the scv will switch to the other side as soon as the drone gets to your scv again.
Ah you might also want to figure out how long the scv stays on one side of the building until he switches (I guess it's the same amount of time for every side of the building)
But it's mostly luck =)
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is anyone else having trouble with the 2 rax reactor first build these days?
protoss seem to have adapated and are even easily holding it against me with a 1 gate expand, let alone anything more.
I think they must be cutting probes to get more units out if they scout my 2 rax?
I am getting to enemy base with 5 rine + 1 rauder + conc
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I'm not very good but I have found out that I only push against nexus first / 1gate FE, any expand later than that I just get my own expo and chillax.
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On February 09 2012 06:48 bwodie wrote:
is anyone else having trouble with the 2 rax reactor first build these days?
protoss seem to have adapated and are even easily holding it against me with a 1 gate expand, let alone anything more.
I think they must be cutting probes to get more units out if they scout my 2 rax?
I am getting to enemy base with 5 rine + 1 rauder + conc
Well, don't ever do it on cross positions for certain. This build is so old any self-respecting Protoss will have a reasonable sense if it is coming, if they scouted at all. I find just going tech lab (1 rax, or add a second if you like) and pushing with 1 marine, 1 or 2 marauders + conc. shell and an SCV is so much more likely to arrive at a time to maybe force a nexus cancel and kill stuff. Also allows for a quicker CC. I really don't think you can get much benefit from a reactor that early in TvP compared to other options.
I can't really say if Protoss you come up against cut probes, watch your replays
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i am a terran player in high gold.. and i have been losing a lot to players who just turtle up in their one base with literally a maxed army of only siege tanks, and they cover everything with missile turrets.
i have tried expanding everywhere, wating for their minerals to run out, and then attacking with banshees/ bc's, but it just takes so long!
is there a quicker way to beat them?
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On February 09 2012 10:41 PinheadXXXXXX wrote:
i am a terran player in high gold.. and i have been losing a lot to players who just turtle up in their one base with literally a maxed army of only siege tanks, and they cover everything with missile turrets.
i have tried expanding everywhere, wating for their minerals to run out, and then attacking with banshees/ bc's, but it just takes so long!
is there a quicker way to beat them?
By expanding and teching yourself, you are making the game longer, but more favoured for you. Should your opponent push out you will have the upper hand. But if you attack into his turtling position, the opponent will be favoured, and could win with a counter attack.
It's up to you to decide. Sure victory, or risk it with a earlier attack.
is anyone else having trouble with the 2 rax reactor first build these days?
protoss seem to have adapated and are even easily holding it against me with a 1 gate expand, let alone anything more.
I think they must be cutting probes to get more units out if they scout my 2 rax?
I am getting to enemy base with 5 rine + 1 rauder + conc
Instead of 5rine 1 rauder, why not push out with more? For example, when you have 3 marauders? Alternatively you can get factory/second gas and tech to medivacs whilst researching combatshield and stim (in that order). Important thing to do is to not let Protoss scout your 2rax. (i.e. delay making 2nd rax until probe is out of your base). By pushing later Protoss may become confused and think it is a techbuild (like 1-1-1) and react to that instead (observers/keeping stalkers in their mineral lines). You can take advantage of such reactions and micro your way to killing their Nexus/winning right there.
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Are there any stim/medivac timing pushes I can do early vs toss after FE? I never seem to be able to keep up with the protoss after the game becomes a macro one =/
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On February 09 2012 11:32 EienShinwa wrote:
Are there any stim/medivac timing pushes I can do early vs toss after FE? I never seem to be able to keep up with the protoss after the game becomes a macro one =/
How early do you want to do the attack? And it can be difficult to just say "always move out at time X". There are timing pushes after a FE build, but the time can be delayed from early aggression pushes, and you need to be able to see what hes teching to, HT, Collisi, or mass gateway.
But in general, after you take the FE (if you go gasless or a gas expo but usually an expo before the 4 min mark) then get up to 3-4 more barracks to hold off any early aggression (can even throw down up to 3 bunkers if they are really hitting you), and also start to mass bio for your medis.
After you start your additional Rax, take both gas in your main and start getting that gas count high. You then can get Concussive, an ebay around 6-6:30 to start +1, and after Concussive begin Combat shield.
Keep massing up units and you can omit any of the above ugs as you want for a faster Factory and SP.
Make you Factory as soon as you have 100 gas, and start Stim as soon as Combat Shield is complete
Start SP as soon as you finish the Factory. The Factory should also start up a Reactor
Move out with about 4 medivac and you can hit with your bio force, 4 medis, +1, Combat Shield, Stim, and Concussive at around the 12 min mark. The medis can be out faster if you omit some ugs and you can support 2 Medis on 1 base (ie 2 gases) but you CANNOT build any other gas unit, including Marauders, without your 3rd/4th gas.
So to outline the gas consumption i recommend the following order: concussive, +1 attack, combat shield, Factory, Stim, Double Medivac
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In a TvT matchup, when is a good time to start going for ghosts and battlecruisers, if at all? Late game, as in after about 3 or 4 expansions is what I've always thought, but I've gotten battlecruiser massed a few times lately...
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On February 09 2012 13:32 MadeOfPotato wrote:
In a TvT matchup, when is a good time to start going for ghosts and battlecruisers, if at all? Late game, as in after about 3 or 4 expansions is what I've always thought, but I've gotten battlecruiser massed a few times lately...
I dont usually use ghosts in tvt, as snipes dont help and emps dont really do anything either. Battlecruisers I really only use as a super late game unit, like you thought, but usually only to break a terran turtle. If people are battlecruiser massing you then you are being too passive by letting them tech up. If someone doesn't attack you for a while and you know they are teching up, sometimes the most effective thing to do is either to attack, as you should have a bigger army, or to divert their attention and then do a drop to destroy some tech. Contains also work quite well, as bcs are resource-heavy.
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EPT
