EPT
The Terran Help Me Thread - Page 117
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
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Funguuuuu
United States198 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On January 14 2012 07:22 Funguuuuu wrote: I just started playing Terran, and I have builds for TVZ and TVP, but I don't know a solid, stable build for TVT, can someone tell me one? I searched Liquipedia, but the builds seemed a bit dated. I need a build that lets me get up an expansion, and isn't risky. I'd recommend a Cloak Banshee expo. Do a 1-1-1, rush out cloaked banshee, then expand. Usually after you've got 2 banshees out you swap addon and start making tanks. This is very uneconomical but highly safe-- people do it in the GSL. It will deal damage against any build that doesn't get a quick starport, and against a build with a quick starport it'll be expoing at the same speed since *IT* gets a quick starport as well. | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
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Funguuuuu
United States198 Posts
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VoO
Germany278 Posts
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Asha
United Kingdom38255 Posts
On January 14 2012 08:06 VoO wrote: TVP, what is your reaction to Nexus first? Trying to outmacro sucks but I prefer double expansion or macro OC... however today I tried 3 rax stim which failed horribly since he had canons and sentries. 4rax scv all in (chooo chooo) | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
On January 14 2012 08:06 VoO wrote: TVP, what is your reaction to Nexus first? Trying to outmacro sucks but I prefer double expansion or macro OC... however today I tried 3 rax stim which failed horribly since he had canons and sentries. Reactor hellion into 3 rax 1 fac marine stim + hellion + scv all in. It's a huge fucking mob, and takes no skill to execute but a metric shit ton for the protoss. Works especially well if you can take a few drones out with the hellions. Or, what I've somehow made work (albeit not against the best players yet still, only mid-high masters atm) is an incredibly fast third. From there, I have to somehow turn on the aggressive and catch them in the midfield with stim/shells. Ramps will rape you. But, I'd suggest the hellion scv marine all in. It's total sex. It's at protoss front door at 8:30-8:45 with stim, with ~10-12 hellions, 16-20 marines, 20-24 SCVs. Edit -- thats if you keep the reactor on the factory. I, personally, reactor out only 6-8 hellions, then land a rax on the reactor, and make 4 marines 1 hellion at a time. It's more like 6-8 hellions, 20-30 marines, 20 scvs at 8:30 with stim, if you do a reactor swap. | ||
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Willzzz
United Kingdom774 Posts
On January 14 2012 06:48 Bwall wrote: Do you mean that you go rax->cc->gas->extra rax instead of rax->cc->extra rax->gas? Do you have problems with defending? If not, what league are you in? Well I do lots of different stuff, but almost always get at least 1 gas before adding on rax. Very often I go double gas before adding rax and still hold 4gate. You just have to buy time until your first medivacs come out and then the tides suddenly turn. I tend to find the early aggression builds quite rare on ladder. I'm masters. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On January 14 2012 09:09 Willzzz wrote: Well I do lots of different stuff, but almost always get at least 1 gas before adding on rax. Very often I go double gas before adding rax and still hold 4gate. You just have to buy time until your first medivacs come out and then the tides suddenly turn. I tend to find the early aggression builds quite rare on ladder. I'm masters. I think Bwall here is talking about 2 base allins | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
On January 14 2012 09:09 Willzzz wrote: Well I do lots of different stuff, but almost always get at least 1 gas before adding on rax. Very often I go double gas before adding rax and still hold 4gate. You just have to buy time until your first medivacs come out and then the tides suddenly turn. I tend to find the early aggression builds quite rare on ladder. I'm masters. I just don't see this being effective against the multitude of toss attacks.. I feel you are cutting too much of rax timing to actually amasse any army to hold 3 gate VR/robo, 3 gate pressure, 5 gate robo, 6 gate, 7 gate all in, etc. Sure, you have 2 medics out in time for the attack. I'd take 10 more marines, and 2-3 more marauders as opposed to medics. Medics help, but aren't the end all of stopping toss allins off gasless FE. I'd suggest, to bwall, rax CC rax rax rax gas (gas if it's you) | ||
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shizna
United Kingdom803 Posts
expansion + tech is super greedy. you can get away with one gas, to get the essential upgrades etc out. double gas really hurts your mineral income until you get fully saturated as well... with double gas before 2nd rax you'd need like 3 bunkers and loads of scv's to hold a rush at your weakest moment. | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
On January 14 2012 09:47 shizna wrote: yeah that delay in getting rax is a bad idea imo... expansion + tech is super greedy. you can get away with one gas, to get the essential upgrades etc out. double gas really hurts your mineral income until you get fully saturated as well... with double gas before 2nd rax you'd need like 3 bunkers and loads of scv's to hold a rush at your weakest moment. Double gas has a much more defensive feel to me. It's like a double ebay kind of build when I think double gas off 1 rax FE into 3 rax 2 gas. Yes, you can do pressure, and probably still abuse many protoss players very early, but you don't have to rush the tech like you think you should. Sometimes, more infrastructure is better early, than later. Hence why I go reaper FE cut gas into 5 rax early, with 1 gas 1 tech lab. You don't have to amass gas and tech to win. Sometimes just fielding more units is more beneficial. Set up a nice concave, stim, and amove then box and bounce as you please and you'd be surprise how many more pushes/pokes/allins/cheeses whatever you call them you will subsequently be able to safely tech and expo at the same time as pressuring. It's the most pleasurable feeling ever taking a third at 9 minutes against a 1 gate FE protoss, while still pressuring at the same time with stim and a bioball. In short, you don't always have to rush double gas and medics ASAP. Pending what you scout, sometimes you can get away with insanely greedy early 3rd CCs and less gas early, into an explosion off 3 base or just 3 OCs. | ||
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tryteyker
Germany83 Posts
On January 14 2012 01:56 Mowr wrote: Please give us a replay so we can see what actually happened. Here you go; http://drop.sc/91585 I'm the Blue Terran, he's the Red One. | ||
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Marathi
298 Posts
On January 14 2012 17:45 tryteyker wrote: Here you go; http://drop.sc/91585 I'm the Blue Terran, he's the Red One. He just halted SCV production to get out a really early expand. The CC starts at 2:50 with 14 supply in SCVs, no marines. This map is very big and allows for really fast expands like this because of the time it takes to scout and get a quick reaction force in to deal with their expand. It's a map a lot of Zergs play expand first so it's not uncommon really. Also your money is soooo high for how early in the game it is, it's easy to get distracted by what your opponent is doing and letting your macro slip but you've got to keep spending your money, You shouldn't have anywhere over 400 minerals within first 5 minutes not being spent unless you're expanding. At like 5:30mins you're floating about 700 minerals. You should easily have gotten siege tech and a couple of siege tanks before he reached you. You also engage his marines with yours in a really bad position for yourself, you probably could've held it with your marines if you had them in a good position or at least bought the time for your tank to finish, but they should've been out way before then anyway. | ||
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Willzzz
United Kingdom774 Posts
On January 14 2012 09:31 iAmJeffReY wrote: I just don't see this being effective against the multitude of toss attacks.. I feel you are cutting too much of rax timing to actually amasse any army to hold 3 gate VR/robo, 3 gate pressure, 5 gate robo, 6 gate, 7 gate all in, etc. Sure, you have 2 medics out in time for the attack. I'd take 10 more marines, and 2-3 more marauders as opposed to medics. Medics help, but aren't the end all of stopping toss allins off gasless FE. I'd suggest, to bwall, rax CC rax rax rax gas (gas if it's you) 10 more marines, 2-3 more marauders? How long do you think taking gas delays the extra rax??? That's almost 6 minutes worth of production. Let's imagine your 4 rax setup, you think the extra 3 rax are delayed 2 minutes each?? | ||
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KenDM
Netherlands206 Posts
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MurMiLLo
United States260 Posts
User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
On January 14 2012 19:52 Willzzz wrote: 10 more marines, 2-3 more marauders? How long do you think taking gas delays the extra rax??? That's almost 6 minutes worth of production. Let's imagine your 4 rax setup, you think the extra 3 rax are delayed 2 minutes each?? ...Count the factory, extra gas, starport, reactor. By adding another rax, and cutting those, plus the timing, yes you will get about another 8-10 marines and 2-3 marauders. Rushing gas does nothing but hurt you in TvP. It gives you a small window to punish a greedy protoss, but medics aren't end-all. A medic drop doesn't do the damage as it used to anymore. Sometimes, just fielding a bigger army and microing does more than having 2 medics healing. | ||
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blackberry_
114 Posts
On January 14 2012 09:31 iAmJeffReY wrote: I'd suggest, to bwall, rax CC rax rax rax gas (gas if it's you) What are some differences between rax cc 3rax gas and rax cc 2rax gas in TvP? Of the top of your head, against which all-ins do the 3rax and 4rax variants auto-lose? (or make it incredibly tough to get back in the game) | ||
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