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On January 15 2012 17:23 wunsun wrote: Should you ever drop a two base protoss? Seems like the army is too close to really do any damage.
Yes, just bail the hell out really fast if his army shows up. Dealing zero damage but not losing anything is an acceptable way to drop. In fact, if that happens, he'll feel trapped in his main and nat and you can take your third freely. This is my standard TvP.
On January 15 2012 17:23 wunsun wrote: Should you ever drop a two base protoss? Seems like the army is too close to really do any damage.
Yes, just bail the hell out really fast if his army shows up. Dealing zero damage but not losing anything is an acceptable way to drop. In fact, if that happens, he'll feel trapped in his main and nat and you can take your third freely. This is my standard TvP.
I have a habit of doing no damage, and losing everything... so I feel at least dropping two base toss is hard.
Another question is that if you go rax gasless expand, then into 4 rax, in a TvT and they are not one basing, should you go for tanks, or go for medivacs, and as soon as medivacs are out, push? Right now i go for 4 rax, then fact (and make tanks) then port. I feel I'm not using my bio since I went 4 rax.
On January 15 2012 17:23 wunsun wrote: Should you ever drop a two base protoss? Seems like the army is too close to really do any damage.
Yes, just bail the hell out really fast if his army shows up. Dealing zero damage but not losing anything is an acceptable way to drop. In fact, if that happens, he'll feel trapped in his main and nat and you can take your third freely. This is my standard TvP.
I have a habit of doing no damage, and losing everything... so I feel at least dropping two base toss is hard.
Another question is that if you go rax gasless expand, then into 4 rax, in a TvT and they are not one basing, should you go for tanks, or go for medivacs, and as soon as medivacs are out, push? Right now i go for 4 rax, then fact (and make tanks) then port. I feel I'm not using my bio since I went 4 rax.
Standard is 3 rax (techlab/reactor/reactor) & ebay. Shield, stim, +1, 2 medivacs. Push out with ~40-50 marines and start Tank/Viking production or take early 3rd.
How do you correctly hold a 3 gate void all in from protoss? I keep dying to it even after scouting it. I always open gasless 1 rax fe (thorzain) My usual response to a 3 gate void all in: 1) Shield first 2) Cut Marauders 3) Ebay for turrets Can anyone help go through this replay and provide some advice? I cant seem to hold off a stargate all in unless i do cloak 1/1/1 http://drop.sc/92190 Thanks!
On January 15 2012 17:23 wunsun wrote: Should you ever drop a two base protoss? Seems like the army is too close to really do any damage.
Yes, just bail the hell out really fast if his army shows up. Dealing zero damage but not losing anything is an acceptable way to drop. In fact, if that happens, he'll feel trapped in his main and nat and you can take your third freely. This is my standard TvP.
I have a habit of doing no damage, and losing everything... so I feel at least dropping two base toss is hard.
Another question is that if you go rax gasless expand, then into 4 rax, in a TvT and they are not one basing, should you go for tanks, or go for medivacs, and as soon as medivacs are out, push? Right now i go for 4 rax, then fact (and make tanks) then port. I feel I'm not using my bio since I went 4 rax.
I never really drop at all in my TvPs anymore. If the protoss player is good then you're just donating units, (either to stalkers surrounding his base, high templar or zealot warp ins).
Protoss players i've spoken to have said the only decent time to drop is when they are maxed out because they can't rely on warp ins to defend. In this case you're going to want to double or even triple drop the same area so that you can guarantee a nexus snipe. You can also use this opportunity to try and snipe something else with your main army. With dropping, you just have to be careful about HT's at their bases and your medivac energy.
TvT, the korean style seems to be going for medivacs first. They give you map control through drops as well as just moving around the map. Bio is also more powerful than tanks until tanks reach some decent count so medivcas can enable you to be more aggressive earlier if you prefer.
I've done a small commentary on a game I played recently and I wanted to know what you guys think about TvZ in general and what your thoughts are on the stuff I'm saying there. The issue started with me having problems in TvZ especially seeing that EU zergs are greedy as hell, so quick 3rd bases and dronning up like there's no tomorrow seems to be the way to go about it. Any ideas or some feedback. Also, I am fairly confident that this should also help out anyone in the lower tiers up to diamond since I don't think I've lost against anything less than a master zerg using this stuff.
On January 15 2012 20:36 Absentia wrote: I never really drop at all in my TvPs anymore. If the protoss player is good then you're just donating units, (either to stalkers surrounding his base, high templar or zealot warp ins).
If you're giving away units this way, it simply means you're bad with drops, not that drops are unnecessary. Not dropping until the Protoss is maxed sounds very silly to me.
On January 15 2012 11:16 Zawmb wrote: I am in dire need of a build order for each terran matchup (TvP, TvZ and TvT) and am having a lot of trouble finding accurate ones. For TvP I am thinking something like 1 Rax FE into Bio. In TvZ I want to open up Reactor Hellion and transition into mech. TvT requires something safe that gets me an expansion and allows me to produce marine/tank + viking/medivac. I would really really appreciate it if someone could link me to replays of top Terrans performing these builds recently. Thanks if you help
I don't know if you've seen it but here's drewbie's guide for all of his matchups. It's only around a month old still, so pretty recent. If you're wanting to go mech versus Zerg look under the 1 Rax FE spoiler of TvZ.
On January 15 2012 03:10 iAmJeffReY wrote: Use SCVs. Use them. Attack, stop, attack, stop, fuck up the zeal AI as your infantry micros behind.
Would you mind explaining that more? I'm pretty new to the game and have always wondered the most efficient way to use the SCVs when I pull them.
Anything SCVs can block, block. Drone drill basically, is how you execute. If they're in a ramp, drone drill to your natural, get half in their army, and attack move and let go.
If it's against roaches, or zeals, or lings, and you have infantry behind, attack move then select all SCVs and stop, then attack once they try and go around your scvs, and then stop.
Basically, you're bugging out the AI so they have to physically target. You force micro.
I never really drop at all in my TvPs anymore. If the protoss player is good then you're just donating units, (either to stalkers surrounding his base, high templar or zealot warp ins).
Big, awful, huge mistake and bad offhand advice. Drops work against GM and pro protosses. They require some thought, and strategy to move the army around and then drop in a spot he isn't. You gotta learn to abandon and sac maybe 1-2 marauders to save the rest of the army and drop ships.
On January 15 2012 11:16 Zawmb wrote: I am in dire need of a build order for each terran matchup (TvP, TvZ and TvT) and am having a lot of trouble finding accurate ones. For TvP I am thinking something like 1 Rax FE into Bio. In TvZ I want to open up Reactor Hellion and transition into mech. TvT requires something safe that gets me an expansion and allows me to produce marine/tank + viking/medivac. I would really really appreciate it if someone could link me to replays of top Terrans performing these builds recently. Thanks if you help
I don't know if you've seen it but here's drewbie's guide for all of his matchups. It's only around a month old still, so pretty recent. If you're wanting to go mech versus Zerg look under the 1 Rax FE spoiler of TvZ.
On January 15 2012 03:10 iAmJeffReY wrote: Use SCVs. Use them. Attack, stop, attack, stop, fuck up the zeal AI as your infantry micros behind.
Would you mind explaining that more? I'm pretty new to the game and have always wondered the most efficient way to use the SCVs when I pull them.
Anything SCVs can block, block. Drone drill basically, is how you execute. If they're in a ramp, drone drill to your natural, get half in their army, and attack move and let go.
If it's against roaches, or zeals, or lings, and you have infantry behind, attack move then select all SCVs and stop, then attack once they try and go around your scvs, and then stop.
Basically, you're bugging out the AI so they have to physically target. You force micro.
I never really drop at all in my TvPs anymore. If the protoss player is good then you're just donating units, (either to stalkers surrounding his base, high templar or zealot warp ins).
Big, awful, huge mistake and bad offhand advice. Drops work against GM and pro protosses. They require some thought, and strategy to move the army around and then drop in a spot he isn't. You gotta learn to abandon and sac maybe 1-2 marauders to save the rest of the army and drop ships.
You watch some funny TvP pro games where drop play works or, indeed, happens at all.
On January 15 2012 11:16 Zawmb wrote: I am in dire need of a build order for each terran matchup (TvP, TvZ and TvT) and am having a lot of trouble finding accurate ones. For TvP I am thinking something like 1 Rax FE into Bio. In TvZ I want to open up Reactor Hellion and transition into mech. TvT requires something safe that gets me an expansion and allows me to produce marine/tank + viking/medivac. I would really really appreciate it if someone could link me to replays of top Terrans performing these builds recently. Thanks if you help
I don't know if you've seen it but here's drewbie's guide for all of his matchups. It's only around a month old still, so pretty recent. If you're wanting to go mech versus Zerg look under the 1 Rax FE spoiler of TvZ.
On January 15 2012 03:10 iAmJeffReY wrote: Use SCVs. Use them. Attack, stop, attack, stop, fuck up the zeal AI as your infantry micros behind.
Would you mind explaining that more? I'm pretty new to the game and have always wondered the most efficient way to use the SCVs when I pull them.
Anything SCVs can block, block. Drone drill basically, is how you execute. If they're in a ramp, drone drill to your natural, get half in their army, and attack move and let go.
If it's against roaches, or zeals, or lings, and you have infantry behind, attack move then select all SCVs and stop, then attack once they try and go around your scvs, and then stop.
Basically, you're bugging out the AI so they have to physically target. You force micro.
I never really drop at all in my TvPs anymore. If the protoss player is good then you're just donating units, (either to stalkers surrounding his base, high templar or zealot warp ins).
Big, awful, huge mistake and bad offhand advice. Drops work against GM and pro protosses. They require some thought, and strategy to move the army around and then drop in a spot he isn't. You gotta learn to abandon and sac maybe 1-2 marauders to save the rest of the army and drop ships.
You watch some funny TvP pro games where drop play works or, indeed, happens at all.
Seriously? lol You need to obviously go away. Not only do I see it all the time, but I still do it, all the time, in TvP.
On January 15 2012 11:16 Zawmb wrote: I am in dire need of a build order for each terran matchup (TvP, TvZ and TvT) and am having a lot of trouble finding accurate ones. For TvP I am thinking something like 1 Rax FE into Bio. In TvZ I want to open up Reactor Hellion and transition into mech. TvT requires something safe that gets me an expansion and allows me to produce marine/tank + viking/medivac. I would really really appreciate it if someone could link me to replays of top Terrans performing these builds recently. Thanks if you help
I don't know if you've seen it but here's drewbie's guide for all of his matchups. It's only around a month old still, so pretty recent. If you're wanting to go mech versus Zerg look under the 1 Rax FE spoiler of TvZ.
On January 15 2012 03:10 iAmJeffReY wrote: Use SCVs. Use them. Attack, stop, attack, stop, fuck up the zeal AI as your infantry micros behind.
Would you mind explaining that more? I'm pretty new to the game and have always wondered the most efficient way to use the SCVs when I pull them.
Anything SCVs can block, block. Drone drill basically, is how you execute. If they're in a ramp, drone drill to your natural, get half in their army, and attack move and let go.
If it's against roaches, or zeals, or lings, and you have infantry behind, attack move then select all SCVs and stop, then attack once they try and go around your scvs, and then stop.
Basically, you're bugging out the AI so they have to physically target. You force micro.
I never really drop at all in my TvPs anymore. If the protoss player is good then you're just donating units, (either to stalkers surrounding his base, high templar or zealot warp ins).
Big, awful, huge mistake and bad offhand advice. Drops work against GM and pro protosses. They require some thought, and strategy to move the army around and then drop in a spot he isn't. You gotta learn to abandon and sac maybe 1-2 marauders to save the rest of the army and drop ships.
You watch some funny TvP pro games where drop play works or, indeed, happens at all.
What a ridiculous opinion with no basis in reality
On January 15 2012 11:16 Zawmb wrote: I am in dire need of a build order for each terran matchup (TvP, TvZ and TvT) and am having a lot of trouble finding accurate ones. For TvP I am thinking something like 1 Rax FE into Bio. In TvZ I want to open up Reactor Hellion and transition into mech. TvT requires something safe that gets me an expansion and allows me to produce marine/tank + viking/medivac. I would really really appreciate it if someone could link me to replays of top Terrans performing these builds recently. Thanks if you help
I don't know if you've seen it but here's drewbie's guide for all of his matchups. It's only around a month old still, so pretty recent. If you're wanting to go mech versus Zerg look under the 1 Rax FE spoiler of TvZ.
On January 15 2012 03:10 iAmJeffReY wrote: Use SCVs. Use them. Attack, stop, attack, stop, fuck up the zeal AI as your infantry micros behind.
Would you mind explaining that more? I'm pretty new to the game and have always wondered the most efficient way to use the SCVs when I pull them.
Anything SCVs can block, block. Drone drill basically, is how you execute. If they're in a ramp, drone drill to your natural, get half in their army, and attack move and let go.
If it's against roaches, or zeals, or lings, and you have infantry behind, attack move then select all SCVs and stop, then attack once they try and go around your scvs, and then stop.
Basically, you're bugging out the AI so they have to physically target. You force micro.
I never really drop at all in my TvPs anymore. If the protoss player is good then you're just donating units, (either to stalkers surrounding his base, high templar or zealot warp ins).
Big, awful, huge mistake and bad offhand advice. Drops work against GM and pro protosses. They require some thought, and strategy to move the army around and then drop in a spot he isn't. You gotta learn to abandon and sac maybe 1-2 marauders to save the rest of the army and drop ships.
You watch some funny TvP pro games where drop play works or, indeed, happens at all.
Seriously? lol You need to obviously go away. Not only do I see it all the time, but I still do it, all the time, in TvP.
There are some professionals who consider dropping not viable and stopped doing it vs. two base turtle Protoss. Just saying. Not that anyone should dismiss it generally but it is a topic which have pros and cons...
On January 15 2012 11:16 Zawmb wrote: I am in dire need of a build order for each terran matchup (TvP, TvZ and TvT) and am having a lot of trouble finding accurate ones. For TvP I am thinking something like 1 Rax FE into Bio. In TvZ I want to open up Reactor Hellion and transition into mech. TvT requires something safe that gets me an expansion and allows me to produce marine/tank + viking/medivac. I would really really appreciate it if someone could link me to replays of top Terrans performing these builds recently. Thanks if you help
I don't know if you've seen it but here's drewbie's guide for all of his matchups. It's only around a month old still, so pretty recent. If you're wanting to go mech versus Zerg look under the 1 Rax FE spoiler of TvZ.
On January 15 2012 03:10 iAmJeffReY wrote: Use SCVs. Use them. Attack, stop, attack, stop, fuck up the zeal AI as your infantry micros behind.
Would you mind explaining that more? I'm pretty new to the game and have always wondered the most efficient way to use the SCVs when I pull them.
Anything SCVs can block, block. Drone drill basically, is how you execute. If they're in a ramp, drone drill to your natural, get half in their army, and attack move and let go.
If it's against roaches, or zeals, or lings, and you have infantry behind, attack move then select all SCVs and stop, then attack once they try and go around your scvs, and then stop.
Basically, you're bugging out the AI so they have to physically target. You force micro.
I never really drop at all in my TvPs anymore. If the protoss player is good then you're just donating units, (either to stalkers surrounding his base, high templar or zealot warp ins).
Big, awful, huge mistake and bad offhand advice. Drops work against GM and pro protosses. They require some thought, and strategy to move the army around and then drop in a spot he isn't. You gotta learn to abandon and sac maybe 1-2 marauders to save the rest of the army and drop ships.
You watch some funny TvP pro games where drop play works or, indeed, happens at all.
Seriously? lol You need to obviously go away. Not only do I see it all the time, but I still do it, all the time, in TvP.
There are some professionals who consider dropping not viable and stopped doing it vs. two base turtle Protoss. Just saying. Not that anyone should dismiss it generally but it is a topic which have pros and cons...
You can drop a 2 base protoss... and just pick up and leave. Let them see you and prepare for something that isn't coming. Fake aggression can lead to a quick third?
Drops don't always have to do 'damage'. The threat of drops do enough damage. Not to mention warp ins in base, are warp ins not in the army. Smaller army, easier to think about engaging.
Infact, with good scouting, when protoss take third base is a great time to poke the third with a small force as you double drop the main.
I just wondered often when I drop and then realise I can't drop and have to pick up and run my medivac keeps dropping marines out 1by1 as I try and leave xD
anyone know why, is it because from sc1 shuttle play I'm used to clicking on the medivac itself to drop. should i be pressing the stop button on the medivac as soon as I want it to stop dropping so i can leave?
On January 15 2012 11:16 Zawmb wrote: I am in dire need of a build order for each terran matchup (TvP, TvZ and TvT) and am having a lot of trouble finding accurate ones. For TvP I am thinking something like 1 Rax FE into Bio. In TvZ I want to open up Reactor Hellion and transition into mech. TvT requires something safe that gets me an expansion and allows me to produce marine/tank + viking/medivac. I would really really appreciate it if someone could link me to replays of top Terrans performing these builds recently. Thanks if you help
I don't know if you've seen it but here's drewbie's guide for all of his matchups. It's only around a month old still, so pretty recent. If you're wanting to go mech versus Zerg look under the 1 Rax FE spoiler of TvZ.
On January 15 2012 03:10 iAmJeffReY wrote: Use SCVs. Use them. Attack, stop, attack, stop, fuck up the zeal AI as your infantry micros behind.
Would you mind explaining that more? I'm pretty new to the game and have always wondered the most efficient way to use the SCVs when I pull them.
Anything SCVs can block, block. Drone drill basically, is how you execute. If they're in a ramp, drone drill to your natural, get half in their army, and attack move and let go.
If it's against roaches, or zeals, or lings, and you have infantry behind, attack move then select all SCVs and stop, then attack once they try and go around your scvs, and then stop.
Basically, you're bugging out the AI so they have to physically target. You force micro.
I never really drop at all in my TvPs anymore. If the protoss player is good then you're just donating units, (either to stalkers surrounding his base, high templar or zealot warp ins).
Big, awful, huge mistake and bad offhand advice. Drops work against GM and pro protosses. They require some thought, and strategy to move the army around and then drop in a spot he isn't. You gotta learn to abandon and sac maybe 1-2 marauders to save the rest of the army and drop ships.
You watch some funny TvP pro games where drop play works or, indeed, happens at all.
Seriously? lol You need to obviously go away. Not only do I see it all the time, but I still do it, all the time, in TvP.
On January 08 2012 22:25 Huggerz wrote: Actually drops are easy to shut down with a templar and like 3 zealots, if the Protoss knows it is coming from scouting at all
Comment from a couple of days ago. Might be good to make up your mind first.
Seeing it all the time =/= dropping works. You doing it all the time =/= dropping works.
If I watch Taeja's stream, he'll drop with his first 3 medivacs, if at all, and then never drop again the whole game.
SC vs Parting
Double drops once the whole game Loses 1 medivac for nothing Loses majority of one drop for a couple of probes
Thorzain vs Socke yesterday @ SCI Sound vs MC on Terminus @ Homestory Donate supply
MVP vs Parting @ 54:00 onwards particularly at 56:40 2 Medivacs sniped for maybe 5 probes @ natural? Not a great success for 4 base protoss.
How often did you see Bomber drop Oz/Inca when he played in GSL? How about here?
MC vs ForGG on Belshir AND Daybreak ForGG ends up donating 2 medivacs worth of units for nothing.
Feel free to disagree with my philosophy on not-dropping but there's plenty of reasons NOT to want to drop. There's plenty of players who don't drop at all and have success and there's plenty of players who DO drop and end up donating supply as a result.
On January 16 2012 01:45 ThePianoDentist wrote: I just wondered often when I drop and then realise I can't drop and have to pick up and run my medivac keeps dropping marines out 1by1 as I try and leave xD
anyone know why, is it because from sc1 shuttle play I'm used to clicking on the medivac itself to drop. should i be pressing the stop button on the medivac as soon as I want it to stop dropping so i can leave?
And to absentia, who only posts replays/vods, I remember watching (as I rarely watch anything) Nooblese tear apart some protoss on TDA with drops, and just general unit control.
There was even a thread about it. By dropping, he got the army out of position more than once.
On January 16 2012 02:05 iAmJeffReY wrote: And to absentia, who only posts replays/vods, I remember watching (as I rarely watch anything) Nooblese tear apart some protoss on TDA with drops, and just general unit control.
There was even a thread about it. By dropping, he got the army out of position more than once.
On December 18 2011 17:16 KawaiiRice wrote: Noblesse was only really allowed to do all these drop antics because Bischu engaged at 14 minutes meaning he couldn't split his army efficiently during the drop period because his army was so small. ;;
if that engage hadn't happened the blink stalker count + zealots would have been too much for small drops to happen
From the thread you're talking about. Obviously it's much better for me to theorycraft instead of providing replays and vods showing people how they can play TvP without drops.
EPT
