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Hi
Does anyone have replays of them holding the stupid terran 1-1-1 build. Getting tired of losing to it.
My main problem is that you absolutely need the robo to deal with the banshees. And if he has a raven with him you'll likely need more than one observer. Meaning less immortals.
So... Any diamond or above who have some replays of them holding it? I've been watching a lot of streams lately. And turneys. Have probably seen the build 20 times in games I haven't played myself. And I've never seen anyone hold it.
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How do you stop an early all in from terran, lets say 6 marines and all their scvs.
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@Vpvanek scouting and holding watch towers then get a sentry and delay his attack.
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On August 22 2011 23:53 YourGoodFriend wrote:
@Vpvanek scouting and holding watch towers then get a sentry and delay his attack.
imo it's better to chrono out stalkers and not get any sentries. Sentries are good for attacks that come a bit later but if you're talking about 6 marines that's really early and you'll only have a handful of gateway units max at that point. A sentry can't kite, and just buys you 15 seconds of time which doesn't do anything since after the FF wears off the terran just walks up the ramp and kills you. If you chrono out stalkers you should be kiting him across the map back to your base, and then it just comes down to micro. Try to avoid his scvs and get a surround on his marines with your probes.
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On August 23 2011 00:03 Anihc wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 23:53 YourGoodFriend wrote:
@Vpvanek scouting and holding watch towers then get a sentry and delay his attack. imo it's better to chrono out stalkers and not get any sentries. Sentries are good for attacks that come a bit later but if you're talking about 6 marines that's really early and you'll only have a handful of gateway units max at that point. A sentry can't kite, and just buys you 15 seconds of time which doesn't do anything since after the FF wears off the terran just walks up the ramp and kills you. If you chrono out stalkers you should be kiting him across the map back to your base, and then it just comes down to micro. Try to avoid his scvs and get a surround on his marines with your probes.
Ya what he said, and Id like to add when youre kiting, focus down the rines. Stalkers own no stim no combat shield rines.
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On August 22 2011 19:44 Latedi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 11:00 SigmaX wrote:On August 22 2011 10:41 aZealot wrote:
Is it just me or is the FFE against Zerg too passive? Is there a timing I need to make where I can and should attack to make it worthwhile? What I generally do when i do a FFE, i go for fast Voidrays, and when I build up onto about 3 voidrays, start producing phoenixes for map control. denies scouting, and if they try to double expand, you can kill off that hatchery and manage their bases. Generally - Zergs would either transition into 2 base roach hydra, or get corruptors. I've seen more commonly 2 base roach hydra, so i throw down Robo + Robo bay and start making collosus while expanding, getting upgrades, etc. Zergs generally have to react to the FFE --> Voidrays with spore crawlers or more queens which hits their economy a bit. There was a day9 daily about it (OGSMc PvZ build) I agree with what you say but don't count on being able to shut down the zerg's third base. If they react correctly they can defend it with spores and queens, or even hydras. Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 17:06 Doler wrote:On August 22 2011 06:25 Latedi wrote:On August 22 2011 01:51 Doler wrote:On August 22 2011 01:23 Latedi wrote:
If you fight a turtling opponent just get greedy. You just gotta make sure you are safe from those zerglings. Imo get weapon uprades and canons for defense, blink stalkers or HTs vs the infestors and when you see hive you get void rays. Voidrays against mass infestors? 3 fungals and they are all dead. I would like to see some replays where you win from this. Anything lower than 700+ masters you don't have to upload Well if it's Mass infestors you will need HTs of course. Zealot archon with charge and +1 or +2 works really well against ling infestor btw. I don't have any replays I think because I don't save them. Zealot / archon vs broodlord infestor,now I've heard it all on these forums Please read my post at least ._.
Yea you comment on infestor/ling, but I never asked help for that, I asked for infestor broodlord. I can figure out myself that archons and storm work quite well against ling infestor when they attack u ><
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On August 23 2011 02:08 Doler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 19:44 Latedi wrote:On August 22 2011 11:00 SigmaX wrote:On August 22 2011 10:41 aZealot wrote:
Is it just me or is the FFE against Zerg too passive? Is there a timing I need to make where I can and should attack to make it worthwhile? What I generally do when i do a FFE, i go for fast Voidrays, and when I build up onto about 3 voidrays, start producing phoenixes for map control. denies scouting, and if they try to double expand, you can kill off that hatchery and manage their bases. Generally - Zergs would either transition into 2 base roach hydra, or get corruptors. I've seen more commonly 2 base roach hydra, so i throw down Robo + Robo bay and start making collosus while expanding, getting upgrades, etc. Zergs generally have to react to the FFE --> Voidrays with spore crawlers or more queens which hits their economy a bit. There was a day9 daily about it (OGSMc PvZ build) I agree with what you say but don't count on being able to shut down the zerg's third base. If they react correctly they can defend it with spores and queens, or even hydras. On August 22 2011 17:06 Doler wrote:On August 22 2011 06:25 Latedi wrote:On August 22 2011 01:51 Doler wrote:On August 22 2011 01:23 Latedi wrote:
If you fight a turtling opponent just get greedy. You just gotta make sure you are safe from those zerglings. Imo get weapon uprades and canons for defense, blink stalkers or HTs vs the infestors and when you see hive you get void rays. Voidrays against mass infestors? 3 fungals and they are all dead. I would like to see some replays where you win from this. Anything lower than 700+ masters you don't have to upload Well if it's Mass infestors you will need HTs of course. Zealot archon with charge and +1 or +2 works really well against ling infestor btw. I don't have any replays I think because I don't save them. Zealot / archon vs broodlord infestor,now I've heard it all on these forums Please read my post at least ._. Yea you comment on infestor/ling, but I never asked help for that, I asked for infestor broodlord. I can figure out myself that archons and storm work quite well against ling infestor when they attack u ><
Generally against infestor broodlord, you'll want a composition of voidrays (enough to deal with the BL. 5-ish) and enough ground army to sustained tank and deal with the infestors. Chargelot/Archon with voids deals with the composition well if you can spread your units appropriately. If they have low numbers of infestors then you can feedback. If they have higher, you should be able to overwhelm them with mass chargelot/archon. If he has enough gas for high numbers of infestors and broodlords, you need to start looking at carriers and mass air play imo....
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Hey guys, I recently switched to P from T, since it feels a little closer to my style. I'd like to know what adaptations you made when learning the new race. Looking for general advice here.
For specifics, it seems like I have to start making double pylons every production cycle sooner than Terran, so getting blocked earlier is a problem. Was wondering when you guys start double producing pylons with gateway units (early-mid game, up to 70-100 supply) and then later with Robo / Templar tech.
I see in some replays and in my own play that Warpgates and gateways early on aren't being utilized near 100%. This feels REALLY uncomfortable as former Terran, where I'm used to keeping buildings lit up and producing. Is this unfounded, or should I start looking for macro faults and ways to constantly keep producing?
Thanks!
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This thread isnt very helpful. The replays are against badly executed attempts. It may well work but the replays arent great. If someone could post decent replays of beating it it would help.
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On August 23 2011 06:23 SnowK wrote:
Hey guys, I recently switched to P from T, since it feels a little closer to my style. I'd like to know what adaptations you made when learning the new race. Looking for general advice here.
For specifics, it seems like I have to start making double pylons every production cycle sooner than Terran, so getting blocked earlier is a problem. Was wondering when you guys start double producing pylons with gateway units (early-mid game, up to 70-100 supply) and then later with Robo / Templar tech.
I see in some replays and in my own play that Warpgates and gateways early on aren't being utilized near 100%. This feels REALLY uncomfortable as former Terran, where I'm used to keeping buildings lit up and producing. Is this unfounded, or should I start looking for macro faults and ways to constantly keep producing?
Thanks!
I think double making pylons is more dependent on your income than your supply or tech... it's never really a conscious thought for me whether I make 1, 2 or 3 pylons at a time but usually the # of pylons I make at a time equates to the number of bases I have (on a very general level).
Yes it's true that protoss will not always be utilizing gateways and warpgates, especially with chrono we're a bit like zerg in that we can alternate between a few quick rounds of units and then periods of more tech/econ. So don't worry too much unless you're banking way more than you can spend with 1-2 rounds of warp-ins. It's also nice to have extra gateways against terran because one of the worst feelings is when you get dropped in your main but you JUST warped in a round of units somewhere else.
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If you forge FE how do you scout and hold a 2 base roach ling all in?
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On August 23 2011 06:49 Kuhva wrote:
If you forge FE how do you scout and hold a 2 base roach ling all in?
Scout it and make cannons.
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On August 22 2011 23:40 VPVanek wrote:
How do you stop an early all in from terran, lets say 6 marines and all their scvs.
This is kinda hard to scout but is possible if terran has taken no gas, also an scv cut at 15 and a very early supply drop are another sign of it.
To hold as toss I recommend a 3 gate stalker heavy play. but do cut probes and stop tech if you see this coming. Also if you can kite them across the map with stalkers it helps immensely.
If you opened 1 gate plus tech and then see this obviously 3 gates is not going to happen so throw down a forge asap with cannons (maybe 2) and use FF for time.
I dont really advise pulling probes unless you must b/c terran has mules and can all in you again......and marine dps is kinda good.
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On August 23 2011 07:47 Parodoxx wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 23:40 VPVanek wrote:
How do you stop an early all in from terran, lets say 6 marines and all their scvs. This is kinda hard to scout but is possible if terran has taken no gas, also an scv cut at 15 and a very early supply drop are another sign of it. To hold as toss I recommend a 3 gate stalker heavy play. but do cut probes and stop tech if you see this coming. Also if you can kite them across the map with stalkers it helps immensely. If you opened 1 gate plus tech and then see this obviously 3 gates is not going to happen so throw down a forge asap with cannons (maybe 2) and use FF for time. I dont really advise pulling probes unless you must b/c terran has mules and can all in you again......and marine dps is kinda good.
3 gates? cannons? FF? what the hell. He's talking about geiko's 3rax.
You need 1 gate, chronoboost it all the time and get stalkers. remove probes from gas and stop warpgate research. Kite with stalkers across the map if you can and pull probes when it reaches your base. You need to get a surround on marines; don't just attack move. What I do is mineralwalk to my natural minerals and amove when the probes are on top of marines. Usually, when this build hits you'd have 2 stalkers with 1 more in production and a zealot if you made one.
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Recently, I have been having difficulty acquiring a 3rd expo against terran and zerg...now I know that these are separate timings...but how do I deal with these match ups in a macro game in the long run? For instance, against zerg if I expand without attacking, a zergling run by can put me in danger-especially if they are smart about it. But if I attack, shouldn't I just keep attacking especially if the attack was favorable? Or should I just poke and run away?
Against Terran, the mobility of drops, primarily helion and infantry drops have me terrified to ever expand to a third because I feel if I have that 3rd I will not be able to defend all 3 adequately. Protoss units are kinda required to be in a "ball" to be effective, whereas terran units are effectively by themselves. Any ideas about how I should plan around these for a good 3rd/4th base expansion? I don't necessarily need timings or builds...but more just advice of how to deal with these things.
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On August 23 2011 08:07 greggy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 07:47 Parodoxx wrote:On August 22 2011 23:40 VPVanek wrote:
How do you stop an early all in from terran, lets say 6 marines and all their scvs. This is kinda hard to scout but is possible if terran has taken no gas, also an scv cut at 15 and a very early supply drop are another sign of it. To hold as toss I recommend a 3 gate stalker heavy play. but do cut probes and stop tech if you see this coming. Also if you can kite them across the map with stalkers it helps immensely. If you opened 1 gate plus tech and then see this obviously 3 gates is not going to happen so throw down a forge asap with cannons (maybe 2) and use FF for time. I dont really advise pulling probes unless you must b/c terran has mules and can all in you again......and marine dps is kinda good. 3 gates? cannons? FF? what the hell. He's talking about geiko's 3rax. You need 1 gate, chronoboost it all the time and get stalkers. remove probes from gas and stop warpgate research. Kite with stalkers across the map if you can and pull probes when it reaches your base. You need to get a surround on marines; don't just attack move. What I do is mineralwalk to my natural minerals and amove when the probes are on top of marines. Usually, when this build hits you'd have 2 stalkers with 1 more in production and a zealot if you made one.
If you know for a fact its geiko. Just chrono sentries for auto win. You can FF long enough easy by the time it hits to get enough to hold it. The point is its good unscouted. When scouted its awful.
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On August 22 2011 05:35 DuckS wrote:
what do my fellow toss do on shakuras in pvz? I have a hard time securing a third base wherever I take it. It feels just too wide open/much of a strech vs a z that makes a shitton of units and just amoves. i've came to the conclusion that I should just do two base timings on this map. so, i'd like two things:
some nasty 2 base all ins. i'm already familiar with 6 gate, blink timings, +2/dt etc.
what do you guys do to take a third? is there a trick/method you do? certain # of colo you stock up before expoing?
btw i ffe on shakuras
i'm still needing help with this, no answers really.
also, how about when you guys play vs Random that turns out to be a Z on tal'darim? Another thing i've been stuck with..
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On August 23 2011 06:36 Anihc wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 06:23 SnowK wrote:
Hey guys, I recently switched to P from T, since it feels a little closer to my style. I'd like to know what adaptations you made when learning the new race. Looking for general advice here.
For specifics, it seems like I have to start making double pylons every production cycle sooner than Terran, so getting blocked earlier is a problem. Was wondering when you guys start double producing pylons with gateway units (early-mid game, up to 70-100 supply) and then later with Robo / Templar tech.
I see in some replays and in my own play that Warpgates and gateways early on aren't being utilized near 100%. This feels REALLY uncomfortable as former Terran, where I'm used to keeping buildings lit up and producing. Is this unfounded, or should I start looking for macro faults and ways to constantly keep producing?
Thanks! It's also nice to have extra gateways against terran because one of the worst feelings is when you get dropped in your main but you JUST warped in a round of units somewhere else.
*Shudder*
Quick chronoboost of all warpgates (if you have CB to spare) and hope that your army isn't too far away, and that you don't lose your structures while your gates cool down...
*Shudder*
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EPT
