• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 01:07
CEST 07:07
KST 14:07
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sep 7-12): SHIN, ByuN, MaxPax double down1StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon98Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism10Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon?179Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)9
StarCraft 2
General
Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Has online-only competition during the pandemic changed your enjoyment of pro SC2? How do you feel about the StarCraft shooter announcement at BlizzCon 2026? Weekly Cups (Sep 7-12): SHIN, ByuN, MaxPax double down StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 SC2 AI Tournament 2026 Fall Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament KSL Week #92
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 543 Enhanced Defenses The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 542 The Ascended Mutation # 541 Binary Choice
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Remastered crash fix suggestions Syncronization issues and can't find games a Announcement on the JEDI Ringing ASL22 General Discussion
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro16 Group D The Casual Games of the Week Thread Small VOD Thread 2.0 BWCL Season 65 Announcement
Strategy
Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Game Theory for Starcraft
Other Games
General Games
Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation Diablo IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Post Your Watch!
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Virtual Romance, Real-Life C…
TrAiDoS
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Dreaming of BW patches (mod…
c3rberUs
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 11108 users

The Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 31

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 29 30 31 32 33 432 Next
Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action.
Imperative
Profile Joined January 2011
Singapore22 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-21 14:23:32
August 21 2011 14:22 GMT
#601
It has been written many times on the forums that placing your initial pylon next to your nexus makes it easier to defend against a 6/7pool. How does this work and what is the optimal positioning of the pylon? Thanks.
Archontas
Profile Joined September 2010
United States319 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-21 14:29:11
August 21 2011 14:27 GMT
#602
On August 21 2011 23:22 Imperative wrote:
It has been written many times on the forums that placing your initial pylon next to your nexus makes it easier to defend against a 6/7pool. How does this work and what is the optimal positioning of the pylon? Thanks.


Um... where was this written many times? 6 pool defense was shown earlier in this thread. Pylons around your Nexus is for proxy gates/rax.
If you ban me, I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.
Imperative
Profile Joined January 2011
Singapore22 Posts
August 21 2011 14:38 GMT
#603
It was written here and someone said that white-ra does that as well.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253932
Latedi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Sweden1027 Posts
August 21 2011 14:43 GMT
#604
Yeah you don't have to run probes all the way to the ramp and you won't lose your wall. But I feel it's weaker vs a 10pool.
I am Latedi.
Archontas
Profile Joined September 2010
United States319 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-21 15:16:16
August 21 2011 15:02 GMT
#605
Well, the replay section of that thread has a replay labeled "Defending against 6 pool with building placement I use", so I'd recommend you watch that

Edit: After watching it myself, that Zerg micro wasn't really very good, he could have taken down the one defending zealot without losing any lings but he chose to dance around instead. I'd want to see a higher level replay... I really don't see any reason not to wall.
If you ban me, I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.
Doler
Profile Joined July 2011
United States206 Posts
August 21 2011 16:05 GMT
#606
Zerg camping in his base with mass spines while waiting for infestors, meanwhile running lings random all over the map and moving out when he has broodlords. Can you win from it without 2base timing attacks, and how?
Latedi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Sweden1027 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-21 16:23:39
August 21 2011 16:23 GMT
#607
If you fight a turtling opponent just get greedy. You just gotta make sure you are safe from those zerglings. Imo get weapon uprades and canons for defense, blink stalkers or HTs vs the infestors and when you see hive you get void rays.
I am Latedi.
Doler
Profile Joined July 2011
United States206 Posts
August 21 2011 16:51 GMT
#608
On August 22 2011 01:23 Latedi wrote:
If you fight a turtling opponent just get greedy. You just gotta make sure you are safe from those zerglings. Imo get weapon uprades and canons for defense, blink stalkers or HTs vs the infestors and when you see hive you get void rays.


Voidrays against mass infestors? 3 fungals and they are all dead. I would like to see some replays where you win from this. Anything lower than 700+ masters you don't have to upload
DuckS
Profile Joined September 2010
United States845 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-21 20:35:58
August 21 2011 20:35 GMT
#609
what do my fellow toss do on shakuras in pvz? I have a hard time securing a third base wherever I take it. It feels just too wide open/much of a strech vs a z that makes a shitton of units and just amoves. i've came to the conclusion that I should just do two base timings on this map. so, i'd like two things:

some nasty 2 base all ins. i'm already familiar with 6 gate, blink timings, +2/dt etc.
what do you guys do to take a third? is there a trick/method you do? certain # of colo you stock up before expoing?

btw i ffe on shakuras
"You foiled us this time Americans, but your liberty will not protect your Marilyn Monroe forever - our Queen must FEED!" - Deleuze
Latedi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Sweden1027 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-21 21:29:27
August 21 2011 21:25 GMT
#610
On August 22 2011 01:51 Doler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2011 01:23 Latedi wrote:
If you fight a turtling opponent just get greedy. You just gotta make sure you are safe from those zerglings. Imo get weapon uprades and canons for defense, blink stalkers or HTs vs the infestors and when you see hive you get void rays.


Voidrays against mass infestors? 3 fungals and they are all dead. I would like to see some replays where you win from this. Anything lower than 700+ masters you don't have to upload


Well if it's Mass infestors you will need HTs of course. Zealot archon with charge and +1 or +2 works really well against ling infestor btw. I don't have any replays I think because I don't save them.

On August 22 2011 05:35 DuckS wrote:
what do my fellow toss do on shakuras in pvz? I have a hard time securing a third base wherever I take it. It feels just too wide open/much of a strech vs a z that makes a shitton of units and just amoves. i've came to the conclusion that I should just do two base timings on this map. so, i'd like two things:

some nasty 2 base all ins. i'm already familiar with 6 gate, blink timings, +2/dt etc.
what do you guys do to take a third? is there a trick/method you do? certain # of colo you stock up before expoing?

btw i ffe on shakuras


Yeah pretty much take a third while doing a 2base timing. You can also take it fast off of 6gate with a lot of sentries and some stalkers like HuK did at... was it MLG? You will need some canons and good scouting to be safe though. About the timing i suggest you do something that will help your army later on when you get your third up and running but I'm not sure what as I'm pretty much having the same problems as you.
I am Latedi.
aZealot
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
New Zealand5447 Posts
August 22 2011 01:41 GMT
#611
Is it just me or is the FFE against Zerg too passive? Is there a timing I need to make where I can and should attack to make it worthwhile? Recently I've been steering away from FFE even on Tal Darim and Shakuras because the, it seems to me, 2/3 Gate sentry expo is just better with more options from that opening. Interestingly, it seems to keep Zerg contained into 2 bases for longer when I go for this opener on the larger maps - even if I'm not intending to pressure. This is from my Gold level experience, I must admit, but the FFE seems to lead to a long time doing nothing.

Any advice regarding the pros and cons of these builds versus each other would be great.

Cheers.
KT best KT ~ 2014
SigmaX
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia44 Posts
August 22 2011 02:00 GMT
#612
On August 22 2011 10:41 aZealot wrote:
Is it just me or is the FFE against Zerg too passive? Is there a timing I need to make where I can and should attack to make it worthwhile?


What I generally do when i do a FFE, i go for fast Voidrays, and when I build up onto about 3 voidrays, start producing phoenixes for map control. denies scouting, and if they try to double expand, you can kill off that hatchery and manage their bases.

Generally - Zergs would either transition into 2 base roach hydra, or get corruptors.
I've seen more commonly 2 base roach hydra, so i throw down Robo + Robo bay and start making collosus while expanding, getting upgrades, etc.

Zergs generally have to react to the FFE --> Voidrays with spore crawlers or more queens which hits their economy a bit.

There was a day9 daily about it (OGSMc PvZ build)
My life for Pylo!
BigHeadYoony
Profile Joined November 2010
United States92 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-22 02:18:22
August 22 2011 02:07 GMT
#613
On August 05 2011 15:33 FiWiFaKi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2011 15:25 Fangxxer wrote:
In a PvP going Sleatos/archon/imortals what upgrades are the best attack or armor?


In PvP always attack over armor. And for your army composition specifically:

Archons - No hitpoints
Zealots - Armor is bad when your opponent has high damage units, hence lowering a collosis or archon shot by one isn't very useful. While improving damage from 8 to 9 is a more significant difference.
Immortals - Immortals get good bonuses from attack ups, plus the main defence for the immortal is the hardened shield which doesn't get benefit from armor.

Rule of thumb, armor is only first in chargelot heavy compositions PvT and debatably PvZ against muta play.


There is some wrong information in here.

Zealots benefit a lot from armor upgrades when fighting against colossi and/or archons. Let's say that seven zealots get hit by an attack by the colossus. One armor upgrade will have 14 times the benefit from the upgrade, because a colossus attacks twice at once and each of the seven zealots have the armo upgrade.

You're generally right about everything else though.
Intel Core i7 2600 / EVGA NVIDIA GeForce GTX 570 Superclocked / Corsair DDR3 1600 8GB (2x4GB) RAM / MSI P8P67 Motherboard / Kingston 120GB SSD / Western Digital Blue Caviar 1TB HDD
MuffinFTW
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States235 Posts
August 22 2011 06:40 GMT
#614
So, I played another PvP, I thought that I could hold off a 1 Colossi timing attack with phoenix. So basically, I got charge + I think 7 +1 air Phoenixes and still lost. Can anybody tell me what to improve on/how I could win against Colossi without having to go Colossi. I was going to tech to Archons, but I just assumed it wouldn't be out in time...

Replay link: http://replayfu.com/r/h4cTH
Doler
Profile Joined July 2011
United States206 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-22 08:07:02
August 22 2011 08:06 GMT
#615
On August 22 2011 06:25 Latedi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2011 01:51 Doler wrote:
On August 22 2011 01:23 Latedi wrote:
If you fight a turtling opponent just get greedy. You just gotta make sure you are safe from those zerglings. Imo get weapon uprades and canons for defense, blink stalkers or HTs vs the infestors and when you see hive you get void rays.


Voidrays against mass infestors? 3 fungals and they are all dead. I would like to see some replays where you win from this. Anything lower than 700+ masters you don't have to upload


Well if it's Mass infestors you will need HTs of course. Zealot archon with charge and +1 or +2 works really well against ling infestor btw. I don't have any replays I think because I don't save them.


Zealot / archon vs broodlord infestor,now I've heard it all on these forums
aZealot
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
New Zealand5447 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-22 08:27:07
August 22 2011 08:24 GMT
#616
I think he meant Zealot/Archon vs Ling/Infestor, dude.

Thanks, Sigmax. I had a look at the Day9 vid. Very instructive. Although I doubt I have the multi-tasking, yet, to pull it off properly. If going robo/twilight through a FFE is there a time frame in which I must push out and try and do some damage if possible? For example, taking out a third/fourth, as essentially I've done nothing for the first 7 - 8 minutes of the game.
KT best KT ~ 2014
Nightshade_
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States549 Posts
August 22 2011 08:49 GMT
#617
http://www.sc-replay.com/replay/22-08-11/181785-Certfiednija-VS-Nightshade.html

Here the Terran Player did a complete mineral build, I thought initially I just caught him being slow in his build by stealing both gas, but when I saw he didn't attack them I knew he was doing a marine rush of some sort. He eventually just massed marines and bunkered himself outside my main. I knew I was going to lose so I cheesed with void rays and gave up on the game.

This is the 3rd all marine build I've faced today, but the only one that wasn't an all-in, how do you counter this so early in the game? I managed to repel a couple attacks but I couldn't get ahead of him due to his mineral-only build, and MULEs really help that cause.
Lil' Joey, Master of the A-Move Stalker Strike Force
monk
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States8477 Posts
August 22 2011 09:39 GMT
#618
On August 22 2011 17:49 N1ghtshade wrote:
http://www.sc-replay.com/replay/22-08-11/181785-Certfiednija-VS-Nightshade.html

Here the Terran Player did a complete mineral build, I thought initially I just caught him being slow in his build by stealing both gas, but when I saw he didn't attack them I knew he was doing a marine rush of some sort. He eventually just massed marines and bunkered himself outside my main. I knew I was going to lose so I cheesed with void rays and gave up on the game.

This is the 3rd all marine build I've faced today, but the only one that wasn't an all-in, how do you counter this so early in the game? I managed to repel a couple attacks but I couldn't get ahead of him due to his mineral-only build, and MULEs really help that cause.


Lol, there were so many things wrong with that game. Never ever ever ever double gas steal any race. Versus terran, he ca let you double gas steal and that means he was planning to do a gasless build anyways. That just puts you 150 minerals behind versus either a marine allin or cc first. Or he can just take his 2nd gas before you can steal both gas.

Do not wall off versus terran. There's no major advantages and it hurts you versus a lot of things.

Versus a normal marine scv allin, you either have to get a few stalkers early game and kite him all the way across the map or mass sentries and permanently forcefield him off while you tech to collosi.

Moderator
monk
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States8477 Posts
August 22 2011 10:01 GMT
#619
On August 22 2011 15:40 MuffinFTW wrote:
So, I played another PvP, I thought that I could hold off a 1 Colossi timing attack with phoenix. So basically, I got charge + I think 7 +1 air Phoenixes and still lost. Can anybody tell me what to improve on/how I could win against Colossi without having to go Colossi. I was going to tech to Archons, but I just assumed it wouldn't be out in time...

Replay link: http://replayfu.com/r/h4cTH


You invested in too much stuff that wasn't units. Twilight + charge + cannon + +1 air attack + 5 extra probes is all unnecessary. With your first poke up his ramp, you see 2 sentries and 2 stalkers. That's enough to rule out dts until you phoenix get to his base to scout. If you want to expand and hold a 1 base allin, cut out all that crap. I count 850 wasted minerals and 400 wasted gas. You'd be much much better off turning those unit zealots and stalkers. None of that stuff kicks in in time for you to hold off the allin. After you scout that he counterexpanded, then you can gradually add all of that stuff.

Also, it's a misconception that if you just get phoenix and he just gets collosi that you automatically win. You have to actually do some damage with those phoenix. This can be demonstrated in a recent game between socke and mana from the iem cologne tournament on metal. Socke hides 7 phoenix and tries to allin mana with immortal gateway phoenix vs 3 collosi + and expansion. Socke loses badly. The strength of the phoenix versus the collosi is if you invest so many resources into collosi, you won't have enough gas to make sufficient stalkers to defend the phoenix harrass.

For a strategy that stands toe to toe with collosi, check out my profile for the robo twilight strategy, which is by far the most common strategy used in korea atm.
Moderator
Latedi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Sweden1027 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-22 10:45:16
August 22 2011 10:44 GMT
#620
On August 22 2011 11:00 SigmaX wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2011 10:41 aZealot wrote:
Is it just me or is the FFE against Zerg too passive? Is there a timing I need to make where I can and should attack to make it worthwhile?


What I generally do when i do a FFE, i go for fast Voidrays, and when I build up onto about 3 voidrays, start producing phoenixes for map control. denies scouting, and if they try to double expand, you can kill off that hatchery and manage their bases.

Generally - Zergs would either transition into 2 base roach hydra, or get corruptors.
I've seen more commonly 2 base roach hydra, so i throw down Robo + Robo bay and start making collosus while expanding, getting upgrades, etc.

Zergs generally have to react to the FFE --> Voidrays with spore crawlers or more queens which hits their economy a bit.

There was a day9 daily about it (OGSMc PvZ build)


I agree with what you say but don't count on being able to shut down the zerg's third base. If they react correctly they can defend it with spores and queens, or even hydras.

On August 22 2011 17:06 Doler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2011 06:25 Latedi wrote:
On August 22 2011 01:51 Doler wrote:
On August 22 2011 01:23 Latedi wrote:
If you fight a turtling opponent just get greedy. You just gotta make sure you are safe from those zerglings. Imo get weapon uprades and canons for defense, blink stalkers or HTs vs the infestors and when you see hive you get void rays.


Voidrays against mass infestors? 3 fungals and they are all dead. I would like to see some replays where you win from this. Anything lower than 700+ masters you don't have to upload


Well if it's Mass infestors you will need HTs of course. Zealot archon with charge and +1 or +2 works really well against ling infestor btw. I don't have any replays I think because I don't save them.


Zealot / archon vs broodlord infestor,now I've heard it all on these forums


Please read my post at least ._.
I am Latedi.
Prev 1 29 30 31 32 33 432 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
ISSL Monthly #1 - Day 1
CranKy Ducklings163
LiquipediaDiscussion
OSC
22:00
Masters Cup #151
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 2361
GuemChi 1440
actioN 423
Hm[arnc] 68
sSak 35
Snow 27
Noble 12
Icarus 8
Dota 2
febbydoto313
NeuroSwarm131
PGG 103
Counter-Strike
taco 393
Other Games
summit1g11673
WinterStarcraft406
C9.Mang0335
PiGStarcraft225
XaKoH 224
Livibee218
ViBE43
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1117
BasetradeTV38
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Letter146
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota288
League of Legends
• Rush1302
• Lourlo955
Upcoming Events
IntoTheTV X SOOP
5h 53m
herO vs SHIN
Percival vs ByuN
RotterdaM Event
11h 8m
Replay Cast
18h 53m
GSL
1d 5h
Replay Cast
1d 18h
GSL
2 days
Shopify Rebellion Sundays
2 days
Spirit vs Mixu
Replay Cast
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Shine vs Rush
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
[ Show More ]
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Light vs EffOrt
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1

Ongoing

K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Calamity Invitational
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSA
Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
SC4ALL II: Brood War
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Copium Cup
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.