EPTThe Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 31
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. | ||
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Imperative
Singapore22 Posts
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Archontas
United States319 Posts
On August 21 2011 23:22 Imperative wrote: It has been written many times on the forums that placing your initial pylon next to your nexus makes it easier to defend against a 6/7pool. How does this work and what is the optimal positioning of the pylon? Thanks. Um... where was this written many times? 6 pool defense was shown earlier in this thread. Pylons around your Nexus is for proxy gates/rax. | ||
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Imperative
Singapore22 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253932 | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
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Archontas
United States319 Posts
 Edit: After watching it myself, that Zerg micro wasn't really very good, he could have taken down the one defending zealot without losing any lings but he chose to dance around instead. I'd want to see a higher level replay... I really don't see any reason not to wall. | ||
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Doler
United States206 Posts
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
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Doler
United States206 Posts
On August 22 2011 01:23 Latedi wrote: If you fight a turtling opponent just get greedy. You just gotta make sure you are safe from those zerglings. Imo get weapon uprades and canons for defense, blink stalkers or HTs vs the infestors and when you see hive you get void rays. Voidrays against mass infestors? 3 fungals and they are all dead. I would like to see some replays where you win from this. Anything lower than 700+ masters you don't have to upload | ||
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DuckS
United States845 Posts
some nasty 2 base all ins. i'm already familiar with 6 gate, blink timings, +2/dt etc. what do you guys do to take a third? is there a trick/method you do? certain # of colo you stock up before expoing? btw i ffe on shakuras | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On August 22 2011 01:51 Doler wrote: Voidrays against mass infestors? 3 fungals and they are all dead. I would like to see some replays where you win from this. Anything lower than 700+ masters you don't have to upload Well if it's Mass infestors you will need HTs of course. Zealot archon with charge and +1 or +2 works really well against ling infestor btw. I don't have any replays I think because I don't save them. On August 22 2011 05:35 DuckS wrote: what do my fellow toss do on shakuras in pvz? I have a hard time securing a third base wherever I take it. It feels just too wide open/much of a strech vs a z that makes a shitton of units and just amoves. i've came to the conclusion that I should just do two base timings on this map. so, i'd like two things: some nasty 2 base all ins. i'm already familiar with 6 gate, blink timings, +2/dt etc. what do you guys do to take a third? is there a trick/method you do? certain # of colo you stock up before expoing? btw i ffe on shakuras Yeah pretty much take a third while doing a 2base timing. You can also take it fast off of 6gate with a lot of sentries and some stalkers like HuK did at... was it MLG? You will need some canons and good scouting to be safe though. About the timing i suggest you do something that will help your army later on when you get your third up and running but I'm not sure what as I'm pretty much having the same problems as you. | ||
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
Any advice regarding the pros and cons of these builds versus each other would be great. Cheers. | ||
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SigmaX
Australia44 Posts
On August 22 2011 10:41 aZealot wrote: Is it just me or is the FFE against Zerg too passive? Is there a timing I need to make where I can and should attack to make it worthwhile? What I generally do when i do a FFE, i go for fast Voidrays, and when I build up onto about 3 voidrays, start producing phoenixes for map control. denies scouting, and if they try to double expand, you can kill off that hatchery and manage their bases. Generally - Zergs would either transition into 2 base roach hydra, or get corruptors. I've seen more commonly 2 base roach hydra, so i throw down Robo + Robo bay and start making collosus while expanding, getting upgrades, etc. Zergs generally have to react to the FFE --> Voidrays with spore crawlers or more queens which hits their economy a bit. There was a day9 daily about it (OGSMc PvZ build) | ||
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BigHeadYoony
United States92 Posts
On August 05 2011 15:33 FiWiFaKi wrote: In PvP always attack over armor. And for your army composition specifically: Archons - No hitpoints Zealots - Armor is bad when your opponent has high damage units, hence lowering a collosis or archon shot by one isn't very useful. While improving damage from 8 to 9 is a more significant difference. Immortals - Immortals get good bonuses from attack ups, plus the main defence for the immortal is the hardened shield which doesn't get benefit from armor. Rule of thumb, armor is only first in chargelot heavy compositions PvT and debatably PvZ against muta play. There is some wrong information in here. Zealots benefit a lot from armor upgrades when fighting against colossi and/or archons. Let's say that seven zealots get hit by an attack by the colossus. One armor upgrade will have 14 times the benefit from the upgrade, because a colossus attacks twice at once and each of the seven zealots have the armo upgrade. You're generally right about everything else though. | ||
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MuffinFTW
United States235 Posts
Replay link: http://replayfu.com/r/h4cTH | ||
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Doler
United States206 Posts
On August 22 2011 06:25 Latedi wrote: Well if it's Mass infestors you will need HTs of course. Zealot archon with charge and +1 or +2 works really well against ling infestor btw. I don't have any replays I think because I don't save them. Zealot / archon vs broodlord infestor,now I've heard it all on these forums | ||
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
Thanks, Sigmax. I had a look at the Day9 vid. Very instructive. Although I doubt I have the multi-tasking, yet, to pull it off properly. If going robo/twilight through a FFE is there a time frame in which I must push out and try and do some damage if possible? For example, taking out a third/fourth, as essentially I've done nothing for the first 7 - 8 minutes of the game. | ||
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Nightshade_
United States549 Posts
Here the Terran Player did a complete mineral build, I thought initially I just caught him being slow in his build by stealing both gas, but when I saw he didn't attack them I knew he was doing a marine rush of some sort. He eventually just massed marines and bunkered himself outside my main. I knew I was going to lose so I cheesed with void rays and gave up on the game. This is the 3rd all marine build I've faced today, but the only one that wasn't an all-in, how do you counter this so early in the game? I managed to repel a couple attacks but I couldn't get ahead of him due to his mineral-only build, and MULEs really help that cause. | ||
monk
United States8476 Posts
On August 22 2011 17:49 N1ghtshade wrote: http://www.sc-replay.com/replay/22-08-11/181785-Certfiednija-VS-Nightshade.html Here the Terran Player did a complete mineral build, I thought initially I just caught him being slow in his build by stealing both gas, but when I saw he didn't attack them I knew he was doing a marine rush of some sort. He eventually just massed marines and bunkered himself outside my main. I knew I was going to lose so I cheesed with void rays and gave up on the game. This is the 3rd all marine build I've faced today, but the only one that wasn't an all-in, how do you counter this so early in the game? I managed to repel a couple attacks but I couldn't get ahead of him due to his mineral-only build, and MULEs really help that cause. Lol, there were so many things wrong with that game. Never ever ever ever double gas steal any race. Versus terran, he ca let you double gas steal and that means he was planning to do a gasless build anyways. That just puts you 150 minerals behind versus either a marine allin or cc first. Or he can just take his 2nd gas before you can steal both gas. Do not wall off versus terran. There's no major advantages and it hurts you versus a lot of things. Versus a normal marine scv allin, you either have to get a few stalkers early game and kite him all the way across the map or mass sentries and permanently forcefield him off while you tech to collosi. | ||
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monk
United States8476 Posts
On August 22 2011 15:40 MuffinFTW wrote: So, I played another PvP, I thought that I could hold off a 1 Colossi timing attack with phoenix. So basically, I got charge + I think 7 +1 air Phoenixes and still lost. Can anybody tell me what to improve on/how I could win against Colossi without having to go Colossi. I was going to tech to Archons, but I just assumed it wouldn't be out in time... Replay link: http://replayfu.com/r/h4cTH You invested in too much stuff that wasn't units. Twilight + charge + cannon + +1 air attack + 5 extra probes is all unnecessary. With your first poke up his ramp, you see 2 sentries and 2 stalkers. That's enough to rule out dts until you phoenix get to his base to scout. If you want to expand and hold a 1 base allin, cut out all that crap. I count 850 wasted minerals and 400 wasted gas. You'd be much much better off turning those unit zealots and stalkers. None of that stuff kicks in in time for you to hold off the allin. After you scout that he counterexpanded, then you can gradually add all of that stuff. Also, it's a misconception that if you just get phoenix and he just gets collosi that you automatically win. You have to actually do some damage with those phoenix. This can be demonstrated in a recent game between socke and mana from the iem cologne tournament on metal. Socke hides 7 phoenix and tries to allin mana with immortal gateway phoenix vs 3 collosi + and expansion. Socke loses badly. The strength of the phoenix versus the collosi is if you invest so many resources into collosi, you won't have enough gas to make sufficient stalkers to defend the phoenix harrass. For a strategy that stands toe to toe with collosi, check out my profile for the robo twilight strategy, which is by far the most common strategy used in korea atm. | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On August 22 2011 11:00 SigmaX wrote: What I generally do when i do a FFE, i go for fast Voidrays, and when I build up onto about 3 voidrays, start producing phoenixes for map control. denies scouting, and if they try to double expand, you can kill off that hatchery and manage their bases. Generally - Zergs would either transition into 2 base roach hydra, or get corruptors. I've seen more commonly 2 base roach hydra, so i throw down Robo + Robo bay and start making collosus while expanding, getting upgrades, etc. Zergs generally have to react to the FFE --> Voidrays with spore crawlers or more queens which hits their economy a bit. There was a day9 daily about it (OGSMc PvZ build) I agree with what you say but don't count on being able to shut down the zerg's third base. If they react correctly they can defend it with spores and queens, or even hydras. On August 22 2011 17:06 Doler wrote: Zealot / archon vs broodlord infestor,now I've heard it all on these forums Please read my post at least ._. | ||
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