On June 30 2012 09:38 Czarkasm wrote: Is there a build that works safely against all 3 races? Just looking for a build that I can start off learning and practicing against each race. I have looked around the site and have come to the conclusion that the 3 gate Robo may be what i'm looking for but im not too sure.
If not where is a good place to start in terms of builds vs. each race? All the guides ive seen seem a bit outdated atm.
Bear in mind, however, that while they all open 3 gate, they are very different in style and execution.
If that is not what you are after, simply build 2/3 gates, robo, expand, and take it from there. Good luck.
I was looking more so for a build that is closer in execution so i can practice that one build against all 3 races too have a good base build to fall back on as I find it difficult to practice and learn 3 seperate builds at once (being a complete noob that is lol)
I see what you're saying though, those are all 3 gate openings so I guess it's a good place to start, any more suggestions would be great.
Bear in mind, however, that while they all open 3 gate, they are very different in style and execution.
If that is not what you are after, simply build 2/3 gates, robo, expand, and take it from there. Good luck.
I was looking more so for a build that is closer in execution so i can practice that one build against all 3 races too have a good base build to fall back on as I find it difficult to practice and learn 3 seperate builds at once (being a complete noob that is lol)
I see what you're saying though, those are all 3 gate openings so I guess it's a good place to start, any more suggestions would be great.
If I was to be totally honest, you can do a "wrong" build in any matchup to learn mechanics and execution. Assuming you're stoic enough to not mind the losses while you focus on one build at a time, that's your simple workaround.
Now if you're fantasizing about an uberbuild that works equally well in all 3 matchups because 3 separate builds is trying, then think again. You may complain about this or that build feeling weak in one matchup and strong in the others if your cup of tea is one-size-fits-all. Again, as mentioned earlier, the first 30 supply of a build order you can basically blind repeat in every matchup for a focused approach, but I don't think you're doing yourself any favors from not doing some "easy steps"** on 3 different matchups.
**Like "I'm going to build 2 gateways, then a robo, then a third gate, and try to always make probes, and try to build a pylon 1 or 2 supply before the cap"
Bear in mind, however, that while they all open 3 gate, they are very different in style and execution.
If that is not what you are after, simply build 2/3 gates, robo, expand, and take it from there. Good luck.
I was looking more so for a build that is closer in execution so i can practice that one build against all 3 races too have a good base build to fall back on as I find it difficult to practice and learn 3 seperate builds at once (being a complete noob that is lol)
I see what you're saying though, those are all 3 gate openings so I guess it's a good place to start, any more suggestions would be great.
If I was to be totally honest, you can do a "wrong" build in any matchup to learn mechanics and execution. Assuming you're stoic enough to not mind the losses while you focus on one build at a time, that's your simple workaround.
Now if you're fantasizing about an uberbuild that works equally well in all 3 matchups because 3 separate builds is trying, then think again. You may complain about this or that build feeling weak in one matchup and strong in the others if your cup of tea is one-size-fits-all. Again, as mentioned earlier, the first 30 supply of a build order you can basically blind repeat in every matchup for a focused approach, but I don't think you're doing yourself any favors from not doing some "easy steps"** on 3 different matchups.
**Like "I'm going to build 2 gateways, then a robo, then a third gate, and try to always make probes, and try to build a pylon 1 or 2 supply before the cap"
I see what you're saying, no i'm not looking for an uberbuild but was more so looking for something that I could practice against all races but like you said I can practice an incorrect build against all 3 races to help refine it more, think im gonna go with that starting with the 3 Gate Sentry Expand PvT
On June 30 2012 08:58 ineversmile wrote: Observers take 20 seconds to build with chronoboost and you don't need constant immortals unless you're trying to take a third fairly quickly. I agree that observers are lackluster scouts against zerg because they are so slow, but some of your logic just wasn't accurate.
Well, "taking a third fairly quickly" is basically what I was assuming. If you don't do that, you better be allining him before his hits full roach production, because otherwise you'll get resourced and killed horribly.
People stop giving wrong advice, there are no builds that work against all the different races. Even a 2gate robo opening vs terran is vastly different from one vs protoss, as you have vastly different timings to account for. Not to mention, 1base robo just makes no sense against zerg.
The closest thing to something that could work in all 3 matchups might be a standard 20 probe 4gate, but even that has been kinda bad in pvz for about a year.
Hi, I decided to play protoss for a while instead of terran. What is the game flow for pvz? I'll look at builds later, but right now I just want a general outline of how protoss vs zerg games go, because I haven't really watched/played this matchup.
On June 30 2012 16:50 Kid-Fox wrote: Hi, I decided to play protoss for a while instead of terran. What is the game flow for pvz? I'll look at builds later, but right now I just want a general outline of how protoss vs zerg games go, because I haven't really watched/played this matchup.
Protoss opens FFE, zerg opens 3 hatch. From there Protoss can either go for a timing attack to kill off zerg's third, or try to take a really passive third of his own and defend it from roach aggression, while being ready to react to zerg's tech, either hive or mutas. Eventually Zerg transitions into lategame broodlord/infestor, and protoss has to get a mothership to deal with it while trying to abuse the immobility of broodlords with warp prisms, storm drops, zealot warp ins and sometimes even recalls.
On June 29 2012 15:24 Tyrant0 wrote: Assuming you're going fast robo, what's the issue with getting an observer? It'll come out before hallucination.
1. You don't have 30 seconds of robo production time to spare against roach/ling spam builds. If you're not chronoing straight immortals, you'll die. 2. Observers are slow. They have three bases. The fast hallucinated phoenix on average will scout a potential spire or infestation pit much faster than your observer will. The obs builds faster, but it has to cross the map and then it has to move from base to base. Also you have to babysit it and make sure it doesn't run into random spore colonies or overseers. The hallucinated phoenix you can just make two and rally spam on the minimap to scout everything.
1. Yes you do?
2. They're slow but they will get to their base WAY before mutas come out. You were asking for a way to make sure you can scout mutas and not auto-lose, and obs will do that for you. Even if they proxy the spire, you can still check for 6 geysers, tons of speedlings with no roaches, and no infestation pit to make the reasonable assumption. As for babysitting it, I'm sorry you can't afford the APM?
Either way, if you're going for a <10 third, it'll be the speedlings that actually stop it from going down. Once you're confident mutas won't be coming immediately you can pull it back to watch the entrance to your natural or third to make better army splits.
hey toss players outthere! i got a quite important question, anyone knows the build order of , its actually just 2 base blink stalker "harass" i think, but it can completly win you the game, with forcefielding the ramp ^^ i would love to have the exact bo
Is it standard for a 1-1-1 to open with cloacked banshee harass? It's just that every time I see a 1-1-1 coming (early gas, bunker at the front), I just prepare for a 10 min timing by the terran and I always get caught offguard by the banshees that arrive before.
On July 01 2012 00:56 howLiN wrote: Is it standard for a 1-1-1 to open with cloacked banshee harass? It's just that every time I see a 1-1-1 coming (early gas, bunker at the front), I just prepare for a 10 min timing by the terran and I always get caught offguard by the banshees that arrive before.
1-1-1 does not always mean cloaked banshees (in fact, it generally doesn't), so you need to be proactive with your observer to see if the tech lab is researching anything. Either way, when you scout a 1-1-1, get another observer to leave at home and keep doing whatever you do vs. 1-1-1. It won't mess up your build and it will help against banshees, cloaked or not.
On July 01 2012 00:56 howLiN wrote: Is it standard for a 1-1-1 to open with cloacked banshee harass? It's just that every time I see a 1-1-1 coming (early gas, bunker at the front), I just prepare for a 10 min timing by the terran and I always get caught offguard by the banshees that arrive before.
1-1-1 does not always mean cloaked banshees (in fact, it generally doesn't), so you need to be proactive with your observer to see if the tech lab is researching anything. Either way, when you scout a 1-1-1, get another observer to leave at home and keep doing whatever you do vs. 1-1-1. It won't mess up your build and it will help against banshees, cloaked or not.
Actually, always get two observers straight off the bat. The second one is always usefull.
On June 30 2012 11:06 ellsworth wrote: Just ranked up HARD from gold to Plat and I am in the top 10.
The pvp metagame has completely switched up on me. People are expanding super early (as in 2 game robo expand type shit) and prettyy much mirroring me in tech and having 2x the amount of probe as me and it still comes down to a micro battle. I am pretty good at playing down a base, in fact I am more than 60% against ppl who take greedy bases PvP I feel.
Thing is, I can tell this is different and these people are putting down super safe expos.
I need to know when to expand...Can i open 1 gate robo and get a quick obs to solve this until I am good enough to punish them with all in or should I plan to macro like them or what?
HELP
Also I am not getting my probe scout denied or something, I am just not really used to having to scout it. Is there a time to scout with a zealot so that I can expand after them and just chrono probes to catch up?
Should I try to get better at 4 gate mirco and early warp ins to better my skillz?
One of the main rules in PvP is who ever expands first loses. So try to take advantage of him using minerals on expanding instead of units. Or if you want to play a macro game expand as soon as he does so you don't get behind economically. Then just try and scout actually with an obs to see when's he's pumping out upgrades and go for +attack and get colossi and possibly archons and a MS if it goes really late game.
On June 30 2012 11:06 ellsworth wrote: Just ranked up HARD from gold to Plat and I am in the top 10.
The pvp metagame has completely switched up on me. People are expanding super early (as in 2 game robo expand type shit) and prettyy much mirroring me in tech and having 2x the amount of probe as me and it still comes down to a micro battle. I am pretty good at playing down a base, in fact I am more than 60% against ppl who take greedy bases PvP I feel.
Thing is, I can tell this is different and these people are putting down super safe expos.
I need to know when to expand...Can i open 1 gate robo and get a quick obs to solve this until I am good enough to punish them with all in or should I plan to macro like them or what?
HELP
Also I am not getting my probe scout denied or something, I am just not really used to having to scout it. Is there a time to scout with a zealot so that I can expand after them and just chrono probes to catch up?
Should I try to get better at 4 gate mirco and early warp ins to better my skillz?
One of the main rules in PvP is who ever expands first loses.
No it isn't, not anymore. Hell there's even been fast expands in GSL that won games, specifically from Oz. I have also seen Huk having success with it.
Anyway, robo expand is indeed very popular as of late, as it's only weakness that i'm aware of is a blind, dedicated 4gate phoenix allin or potentially a 4gate blink allin, and both are fairly uncommmon. You can kinda struggle against a macro blink obs opening or immortal drops, but i think those are a bit easier to deal with. One thing you can do to even the playing field against someone expanding faster than you is to just move out with your units to scare him, kinda like in pvz. The thing with fast expands in pvp is that it's MANDATORY to cut probes until you confirm an expansion from your opponent, follow up your fe with a robo, as well as (not 100% sure on this) to go immortal first to not die to blink stalkers, which means his info will be quite limited. With that in mind, if you move out say with your first immortal, or try to put pressure on with blink stalkers+obs, an immortal drop to snipe a few probes and pylons, or pheonix to deal some economic damage, you should be able to go into the midgame on an even footage if you expand behind your pressure (and you don't screw up).
On July 01 2012 03:58 KingLumps wrote: In PvT how do you transition from colossus to ht/storm safely? Should I be throwing down archives right after the Terran's 9 -10 minute push?
The accepted way is to stop at 3-4 colossi, when your third is set up and you are working on your +2 upgrades. Alternatively, i have seen some people go for just 1 colossus without range to scare off the medivac timing, and going straight into a twilight council off that.
On July 01 2012 03:58 KingLumps wrote: In PvT how do you transition from colossus to ht/storm safely? Should I be throwing down archives right after the Terran's 9 -10 minute push?
The accepted way is to stop at 3-4 colossi, when your third is set up and you are working on your +2 upgrades. Alternatively, i have seen some people go for just 1 colossus without range to scare off the medivac timing, and going straight into a twilight council off that.
Teo is right. Think about how much vespene income ou have off of two bases. Think about how many units you can have with this sort of income. If you can't imagine, then you can run a simple test yourself. Once you have three bases you can support two major tech paths simultaneously.
Hi guys. Im just wondering, in PvT, is it possible to do any sort of FE as toss while holding a 5 rax early agression? Or should toss mandatorily sac the nexus when he sees the early 5 rax push coming? In maps with huge ramps leading to the natural (e.g. entombed), it seems that sentries could not cast ffs long enough to delay the push. Also, kiting with 2-3 stalkers (considering the early time that the aggression hits) seems to be a bit ineffective since the marine count is just sort of overwhelming.
For those who are positive that toss FE can hold, what type of toss FE can hold it better? (Parting? Mc's? the early 2 gas?)
I honestly havent seen a game where the toss is able to hold a 5 rax agression while going FE and not cancelling the nexus. If anyone can give a link, it will be much appreciated.
EPT
