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Hi everyone,
I have been losing a lot to hellion drops, especially blue-flame hellions. Oftentimes I stop the initial hellion pressure easily, send out my obs to see that they expanded and transitioning into mech, when suddenly I'm hit by a 4 BFH drop in both my main mineral line and natural simultaneously. This often kills a huge amount of probes because hellions are so goddamn fast and stalkers don't do jack 
What is the most effective way to manage hellions in my probe line / base and minimizing my probe losses? Also, is there a way to punish terrans that do siege-tank expansions?? It seems pretty greedy to just expand with siege tank and marines and bunkers :S
High diamond P
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I really need help with PvZ. I can't find a guide or build that I can execute. I really want to FFE but I cant find a build that has all the answers. I have been looking for two days. I'm Silver previously Gold but I screwed around with Zerg and lost a lot. I took a long break and just want to get back to playing and I can't force my self to do that without a build for each match-up.
Any help? Thank you in advance. @.@
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Canada13410 Posts
On June 01 2012 13:37 Flipside wrote:
I really need help with PvZ. I can't find a guide or build that I can execute. I really want to FFE but I cant find a build that has all the answers. I have been looking for two days. I'm Silver previously Gold but I screwed around with Zerg and lost a lot. I took a long break and just want to get back to playing and I can't force my self to do that without a build for each match-up.
Any help? Thank you in advance. @.@
What exactly is giving you so much trouble in PvZ?
The reason i ask is because you want a build that has all the answers. Unfortunately, the way an opening build works is it allows you to get SOMETHING which in the case of an FFE is economy. The reason this is important is because you need to make use of this economy otherwise the opening isn't going to be useful to you.
Now, because of a focus on economy, you will have next to no army so if Zerg does something like a 6 or 7 pool or tries to roach bust you need to compensate with the only tech you have, which thanks to the forge is cannons. How many and where you put the cannons depends on what you scout and what map you are on. Alternatively, Zerg can respond by matching and exceeding your economy such is the case with 3 hatch openings.
So what kind of opening are you facing and what kind of game plan are you trying to execute with the economy you get from an FFE. I don't just want to say macro better but unless you tell us what you are wanting help with specifically I can't give you a specific answer. For a general question all I could offer is general advice which for a gold player being demoted to silver means you need to macro better.
If you give us some more details I can help you out. FFE is pretty standard if you want a basic opener
9 pylon
14 forge
17 nexus
17 cannon
17 gateway
17 pylon
all the things being put down on 17 can be put down in different orders based on scouting. See a fast hatch no pool no gas? 17 nexus, then pylon (see a drone waiting at the third too?) then gate then cannon and resume probes as soon as the 17 pylon is done and get a slightly later cannon, you'll be fine 
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On June 01 2012 13:46 ZeromuS wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 13:37 Flipside wrote:
I really need help with PvZ. I can't find a guide or build that I can execute. I really want to FFE but I cant find a build that has all the answers. I have been looking for two days. I'm Silver previously Gold but I screwed around with Zerg and lost a lot. I took a long break and just want to get back to playing and I can't force my self to do that without a build for each match-up.
Any help? Thank you in advance. @.@ What exactly is giving you so much trouble in PvZ? The reason i ask is because you want a build that has all the answers. Unfortunately, the way an opening build works is it allows you to get SOMETHING which in the case of an FFE is economy. The reason this is important is because you need to make use of this economy otherwise the opening isn't going to be useful to you. Now, because of a focus on economy, you will have next to no army so if Zerg does something like a 6 or 7 pool or tries to roach bust you need to compensate with the only tech you have, which thanks to the forge is cannons. How many and where you put the cannons depends on what you scout and what map you are on. Alternatively, Zerg can respond by matching and exceeding your economy such is the case with 3 hatch openings. So what kind of opening are you facing and what kind of game plan are you trying to execute with the economy you get from an FFE. I don't just want to say macro better but unless you tell us what you are wanting help with specifically I can't give you a specific answer. For a general question all I could offer is general advice which for a gold player being demoted to silver means you need to macro better. If you give us some more details I can help you out. FFE is pretty standard if you want a basic opener 9 pylon 14 forge 17 nexus 17 cannon 17 gateway 17 pylon all the things being put down on 17 can be put down in different orders based on scouting. See a fast hatch no pool no gas? 17 nexus, then pylon (see a drone waiting at the third too?) then gate then cannon and resume probes as soon as the 17 pylon is done and get a slightly later cannon, you'll be fine
I'm looking to find a follow up after the FFE that alows me to take a safe third, also to have a strong mid-late game. Also I don't really want to go stargate into robo I would like to go straight to robo. And to some how get a Stalker/Sentry/Immortal army.
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On June 01 2012 13:37 Flipside wrote:
I really need help with PvZ. I can't find a guide or build that I can execute. I really want to FFE but I cant find a build that has all the answers. I have been looking for two days. I'm Silver previously Gold but I screwed around with Zerg and lost a lot. I took a long break and just want to get back to playing and I can't force my self to do that without a build for each match-up.
Any help? Thank you in advance. @.@
Shameless plug; use my build.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=335149
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Canada13410 Posts
On June 01 2012 13:53 Flipside wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 13:46 ZeromuS wrote:On June 01 2012 13:37 Flipside wrote:
I really need help with PvZ. I can't find a guide or build that I can execute. I really want to FFE but I cant find a build that has all the answers. I have been looking for two days. I'm Silver previously Gold but I screwed around with Zerg and lost a lot. I took a long break and just want to get back to playing and I can't force my self to do that without a build for each match-up.
Any help? Thank you in advance. @.@ What exactly is giving you so much trouble in PvZ? The reason i ask is because you want a build that has all the answers. Unfortunately, the way an opening build works is it allows you to get SOMETHING which in the case of an FFE is economy. The reason this is important is because you need to make use of this economy otherwise the opening isn't going to be useful to you. Now, because of a focus on economy, you will have next to no army so if Zerg does something like a 6 or 7 pool or tries to roach bust you need to compensate with the only tech you have, which thanks to the forge is cannons. How many and where you put the cannons depends on what you scout and what map you are on. Alternatively, Zerg can respond by matching and exceeding your economy such is the case with 3 hatch openings. So what kind of opening are you facing and what kind of game plan are you trying to execute with the economy you get from an FFE. I don't just want to say macro better but unless you tell us what you are wanting help with specifically I can't give you a specific answer. For a general question all I could offer is general advice which for a gold player being demoted to silver means you need to macro better. If you give us some more details I can help you out. FFE is pretty standard if you want a basic opener 9 pylon 14 forge 17 nexus 17 cannon 17 gateway 17 pylon all the things being put down on 17 can be put down in different orders based on scouting. See a fast hatch no pool no gas? 17 nexus, then pylon (see a drone waiting at the third too?) then gate then cannon and resume probes as soon as the 17 pylon is done and get a slightly later cannon, you'll be fine I'm looking to find a follow up after the FFE that alows me to take a safe third, also to have a strong mid-late game. Also I don't really want to go stargate into robo I would like to go straight to robo. And to some how get a Stalker/Sentry/Immortal army.
Going straight to robo means you are taking a third really passively with sentries relying on forcefields, good macro, sim city and expansion timings. The problem with this is that taking a late third with robo opening means you need to use the army you have to attack and do damage if they open 3 hatch so at that point its best to learn a 2 base all in and then learn where, when and how you can expand behind it when you have done enough damage.
In gold league and even silver, the sentry immortal fast third being very fragile makes it difficult to execute well without losing to a LOT of mass ling plays.
If you want to go straight robo it really is as simple as just putting a robo down as soon as the core finishes and then making a third gas when the robo starts. Make sentries, make a bunch of immortals and once you have 8 sentries make stalkers. But scouting is really important because going robo first can be very very hard to pull off if they go for 2 base muta or mutalisk play that comes at a relatively fast timing. This all relates back to whether there is early gas or not before you see a third hatch. Speedling openings make it hard to scout for a third and can lead to quick mutas.
I don't have a good BO for immortal expands as I do mine differently and not off of an FFE but rather gate first then nexus into forge
All this being said read the following thread by NrGMonK
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=327905
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On June 01 2012 14:14 ZeromuS wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 13:53 Flipside wrote:On June 01 2012 13:46 ZeromuS wrote:On June 01 2012 13:37 Flipside wrote:
I really need help with PvZ. I can't find a guide or build that I can execute. I really want to FFE but I cant find a build that has all the answers. I have been looking for two days. I'm Silver previously Gold but I screwed around with Zerg and lost a lot. I took a long break and just want to get back to playing and I can't force my self to do that without a build for each match-up.
Any help? Thank you in advance. @.@ What exactly is giving you so much trouble in PvZ? The reason i ask is because you want a build that has all the answers. Unfortunately, the way an opening build works is it allows you to get SOMETHING which in the case of an FFE is economy. The reason this is important is because you need to make use of this economy otherwise the opening isn't going to be useful to you. Now, because of a focus on economy, you will have next to no army so if Zerg does something like a 6 or 7 pool or tries to roach bust you need to compensate with the only tech you have, which thanks to the forge is cannons. How many and where you put the cannons depends on what you scout and what map you are on. Alternatively, Zerg can respond by matching and exceeding your economy such is the case with 3 hatch openings. So what kind of opening are you facing and what kind of game plan are you trying to execute with the economy you get from an FFE. I don't just want to say macro better but unless you tell us what you are wanting help with specifically I can't give you a specific answer. For a general question all I could offer is general advice which for a gold player being demoted to silver means you need to macro better. If you give us some more details I can help you out. FFE is pretty standard if you want a basic opener 9 pylon 14 forge 17 nexus 17 cannon 17 gateway 17 pylon all the things being put down on 17 can be put down in different orders based on scouting. See a fast hatch no pool no gas? 17 nexus, then pylon (see a drone waiting at the third too?) then gate then cannon and resume probes as soon as the 17 pylon is done and get a slightly later cannon, you'll be fine I'm looking to find a follow up after the FFE that alows me to take a safe third, also to have a strong mid-late game. Also I don't really want to go stargate into robo I would like to go straight to robo. And to some how get a Stalker/Sentry/Immortal army. Going straight to robo means you are taking a third really passively with sentries relying on forcefields, good macro, sim city and expansion timings. The problem with this is that taking a late third with robo opening means you need to use the army you have to attack and do damage if they open 3 hatch so at that point its best to learn a 2 base all in and then learn where, when and how you can expand behind it when you have done enough damage. In gold league and even silver, the sentry immortal fast third being very fragile makes it difficult to execute well without losing to a LOT of mass ling plays. If you want to go straight robo it really is as simple as just putting a robo down as soon as the core finishes and then making a third gas when the robo starts. Make sentries, make a bunch of immortals and once you have 8 sentries make stalkers. But scouting is really important because going robo first can be very very hard to pull off if they go for 2 base muta or mutalisk play that comes at a relatively fast timing. This all relates back to whether there is early gas or not before you see a third hatch. Speedling openings make it hard to scout for a third and can lead to quick mutas. I don't have a good BO for immortal expands as I do mine differently and not off of an FFE but rather gate first then nexus into forge All this being said read the following thread by NrGMonK http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=327905
I have read it, many times acctually. I'm getting very frustrated, I'm about to switch races or quit playing or something. But I cant justify that because I love this game. I just want to play and get bettter. I just cant figure out what to do so I can start playing. Whenever I go into a game without a build just because I want to play I just get stomped and get more angry.
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So i was watching huk's stream the other day and he actually beat broodlord/infestory/ling army with just immortal/sentry/blink stalkers and HT. He used feedback on the infestors and somehow the stalkers were able to rip apart the broodlords.
Anyone have luck with this? Or maybe it was just a zerg slip up, I don't know. I feel like whenever i fight this army comp, I always seem to lose because the broodlords just tear me apart. Do i really have to resort to an archon toilet or carriers when the game reaches that late? Thanks a lot.
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On June 01 2012 15:21 Ea wrote:
So i was watching huk's stream the other day and he actually beat broodlord/infestory/ling army with just immortal/sentry/blink stalkers and HT. He used feedback on the infestors and somehow the stalkers were able to rip apart the broodlords.
Anyone have luck with this? Or maybe it was just a zerg slip up, I don't know. I feel like whenever i fight this army comp, I always seem to lose because the broodlords just tear me apart. Do i really have to resort to an archon toilet or carriers when the game reaches that late? Thanks a lot.
Unless zerg has significant disadvantage it's not doable. Immortals are 100% useless in this situation, so are sentries for most part (unless you're trying to run away). Zerg should have kept infestors under broodlords and broodlings should stop any HT's from getting close enaugh to feedback, then they can fungal blink stalkers and thus render the last bit of your army completly useless 
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On June 01 2012 15:21 Ea wrote:
So i was watching huk's stream the other day and he actually beat broodlord/infestory/ling army with just immortal/sentry/blink stalkers and HT. He used feedback on the infestors and somehow the stalkers were able to rip apart the broodlords.
Anyone have luck with this? Or maybe it was just a zerg slip up, I don't know. I feel like whenever i fight this army comp, I always seem to lose because the broodlords just tear me apart. Do i really have to resort to an archon toilet or carriers when the game reaches that late? Thanks a lot.
You can usually kill broodlords with blink stalkers, when they are few in numbers, and you have HT and blink, but once they set up spinewalls, get lots of infestor and BL, +3 cracklings they are gonna rip throught stalkers.
You should definetly tech to MS, but it's fine to kill some BL with blink if you can. Dunno about carrier tho. IMO.
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in PvZ how do I stop 1 base spine crawler rush vs FFE when all my cannon behind my buildings?
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On June 01 2012 20:17 ApocAlypsE007 wrote:
in PvZ how do I stop 1 base spine crawler rush vs FFE when all my cannon behind my buildings?
Don't exactly know what you mean by crawler rush, would be nice if you'd attach a replay, but in general if it is a 1 base allin, you should scout it.
Things to look for in order to prepare for a 1-base allin:
Initial scout:
1. Early pool
2. No early hatch (if you don't pilon-block)
Secondary scout:
1. No third
2. No natural, or no creep at natural (if lucky)
After not scouting third you can assume that it's some kind of pressure build, if you are able to scout a 1 base play - throw down additional cannons (up to 4-5), assume possible baneling bust or nydus. Chrono gates for units.
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On June 01 2012 20:17 ApocAlypsE007 wrote:
in PvZ how do I stop 1 base spine crawler rush vs FFE when all my cannon behind my buildings?
If he is 1base and you have no way of stopping his spines (+ lings, I pressume) I think saccing your nat isn't a bad idea. You can remake your tech along with cannons on top of your ramp.
Protip: If your nat is dying, make sure you use all the chronoenergy
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On June 01 2012 15:21 Ea wrote:
So i was watching huk's stream the other day and he actually beat broodlord/infestory/ling army with just immortal/sentry/blink stalkers and HT. He used feedback on the infestors and somehow the stalkers were able to rip apart the broodlords.
Anyone have luck with this? Or maybe it was just a zerg slip up, I don't know. I feel like whenever i fight this army comp, I always seem to lose because the broodlords just tear me apart. Do i really have to resort to an archon toilet or carriers when the game reaches that late? Thanks a lot.
I think a good controlled zerg shouldnt let your HT come close, however I think it's kind of like a dance. Same for PvT with ghosts, the better you are at dancing with your casters the more flexible you get. I think the better choice almost every game would be the carrier switch with/or the archon toilet, if you don't of course have so much more econ then the zerg you can probably run him over still.
But I think best way is a mix of carrier/voidray/archon/ht/mothership (talking really lategame here) with warp prisms doing storm/zealot/dt drops! :D
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Hey all
i quit at season 2 and recently started playing again recently, I am currently low master and when i quit we had a lot of smaller maps where you could put on eariler pressure, espc in pvz however i can't seem to put ANY pressure on now. It seems gateway openings are completley redundent.. does anybody have or still use gateway openings? I Lost to a zerg the other night and he told me they are basically crap and nobody should ever use them!
so does anybody know any early pressure builds? should i make my own? i dont like the fact zerg get 3 bases for free now.. i dont want a 2 base all in but i want to do somthing that will slow them down which they have to react to.
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Hi folks,
Recently I have been employing the 'trendy' FFE build in my PvTs when i have a ramp to my nat, and I scout the terran not taking gas. The terran basically always 1 rax expands and generally goes into standard play, getting 3 orbitals and 10 minute drop etc. I have noticed however that after the command centre is down and a few marines are out some terrans drop a TON of rax, going up to 7 or 8 and spam marines. This is fairly easy to hold with a few chrono'd sentry and early gates, but if I go 1 gate into robo I find it quite hard.
My question is, what scouting information can I use to determine how the terran is following up his 1 rax expand? 1 gate robo with chrono'd observer seems not to give enough time to respond as marines are already jogging accross the map by the time I reach his base. Thanks in advance for your help!
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On June 01 2012 22:39 DunD wrote:
Hi folks,
Recently I have been employing the 'trendy' FFE build in my PvTs when i have a ramp to my nat, and I scout the terran not taking gas. The terran basically always 1 rax expands and generally goes into standard play, getting 3 orbitals and 10 minute drop etc. I have noticed however that after the command centre is down and a few marines are out some terrans drop a TON of rax, going up to 7 or 8 and spam marines. This is fairly easy to hold with a few chrono'd sentry and early gates, but if I go 1 gate into robo I find it quite hard.
My question is, what scouting information can I use to determine how the terran is following up his 1 rax expand? 1 gate robo with chrono'd observer seems not to give enough time to respond as marines are already jogging accross the map by the time I reach his base. Thanks in advance for your help!
Put a stalker outside of his base.
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Italy12247 Posts
On June 01 2012 22:47 TheExodus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 22:39 DunD wrote:
Hi folks,
Recently I have been employing the 'trendy' FFE build in my PvTs when i have a ramp to my nat, and I scout the terran not taking gas. The terran basically always 1 rax expands and generally goes into standard play, getting 3 orbitals and 10 minute drop etc. I have noticed however that after the command centre is down and a few marines are out some terrans drop a TON of rax, going up to 7 or 8 and spam marines. This is fairly easy to hold with a few chrono'd sentry and early gates, but if I go 1 gate into robo I find it quite hard.
My question is, what scouting information can I use to determine how the terran is following up his 1 rax expand? 1 gate robo with chrono'd observer seems not to give enough time to respond as marines are already jogging accross the map by the time I reach his base. Thanks in advance for your help! Put a stalker outside of his base.
Or a probe if your minimap awareness isn't top notch with a stalker at the tower or halfway between the bases; losing the one stalker can be a big deal in holding off early marine pushes.
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On June 01 2012 13:21 LOLZEY wrote:Hi everyone, I have been losing a lot to hellion drops, especially blue-flame hellions. Oftentimes I stop the initial hellion pressure easily, send out my obs to see that they expanded and transitioning into mech, when suddenly I'm hit by a 4 BFH drop in both my main mineral line and natural simultaneously. This often kills a huge amount of probes because hellions are so goddamn fast and stalkers don't do jack What is the most effective way to manage hellions in my probe line / base and minimizing my probe losses? Also, is there a way to punish terrans that do siege-tank expansions?? It seems pretty greedy to just expand with siege tank and marines and bunkers :S High diamond P
BUMP help pleeeaase
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EPT
