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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. |
On May 31 2012 03:10 DW-Unrec wrote:
Hi
I need some help. I'm losing pretty much every PvT game I open 1 gate FE. They do 1/1/1 builds, they do pushes before my colossus is out. Can someone provide me a replay where protoss opens 1 gate FE then builds another 2 gates + robo and win?
Masters league.
See Qtip's guide for help.
Also I understand you are rushing for colosi and get only 3g+robo+bay
And you are crushed by 7:15 push, right?
Against scouted 1-1-1-
1. Leave a scout near his base (probe or stalker).
2. Chrono Obs to his base search for cloacked banshee, get 2 more obs if nessesary.
3. Warp 2 stalker per mineral line with obs.
4. Get 2 more gate (total of 5)
5. Warp only sentry (~5) and zealots, produce immortals from robo.
- Deflect banshee harass/ helion-marine drop (if any)
6. @10:00 start working on colosi tech (maybe at 9:30, but 10 is easier to remember)
7. Get third.
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Hey i got another question . Sorry if i keep asking question tho . Here's the question : if a protoss opponents goes the same build as you and when a major fight happens , and you won , you tried to counter but there's cannon . so you sit back and turtle ,and then your ob saw the opponent going 2robo collosues . so what do i transition into then ? coll too or stargate?
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On May 31 2012 23:10 Misuari wrote:
Hey i got another question . Sorry if i keep asking question tho . Here's the question : if a protoss opponents goes the same build as you and when a major fight happens , and you won , you tried to counter but there's cannon . so you sit back and turtle ,and then your ob saw the opponent going 2robo collosues . so what do i transition into then ? coll too or stargate?
A single cannon dies to 2 zealots and a stalker easily, but if you feel you can't push him, contain him and expand and just out macro him. But be wary of warp prisms/proxy warp ins at your base.
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On May 31 2012 23:17 Mikelius wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2012 23:10 Misuari wrote:
Hey i got another question . Sorry if i keep asking question tho . Here's the question : if a protoss opponents goes the same build as you and when a major fight happens , and you won , you tried to counter but there's cannon . so you sit back and turtle ,and then your ob saw the opponent going 2robo collosues . so what do i transition into then ? coll too or stargate? A single cannon dies to 2 zealots and a stalker easily, but if you feel you can't push him, contain him and expand and just out macro him. But be wary of warp prisms/proxy warp ins at your base.
Yeah thats what i did at first. I turtle and get a third up. But i think i was focussing too much on my macro tho. i had an army waiting at my base . But once my obs sees the army moving , i know i was in deep shit as i had only 50 supply of army as i was focussing too much on my macro. He came and destroyed my 3rd and natural . my main was mined out. even if force field and perfect blink micro , the coll and zealots took out my army. any specific counter to coll and zealots army tho ?
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On May 31 2012 23:22 Misuari wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2012 23:17 Mikelius wrote:On May 31 2012 23:10 Misuari wrote:
Hey i got another question . Sorry if i keep asking question tho . Here's the question : if a protoss opponents goes the same build as you and when a major fight happens , and you won , you tried to counter but there's cannon . so you sit back and turtle ,and then your ob saw the opponent going 2robo collosues . so what do i transition into then ? coll too or stargate? A single cannon dies to 2 zealots and a stalker easily, but if you feel you can't push him, contain him and expand and just out macro him. But be wary of warp prisms/proxy warp ins at your base. Yeah thats what i did at first. I turtle and get a third up. But i think i was focussing too much on my macro tho. i had an army waiting at my base . But once my obs sees the army moving , i know i was in deep shit as i had only 50 supply of army as i was focussing too much on my macro. He came and destroyed my 3rd and natural . my main was mined out. even if force field and perfect blink micro , the coll and zealots took out my army. any specific counter to coll and zealots army tho ?
PvP lategame is colossi wars, sorry.
Colossi is countered by more colossi.
So More colossi > Less colossi.
And just to be clear if your opponent is making colossi -> make your colossi.
I was trying to see if any SG counters are possible, but failed, hard.
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On May 31 2012 23:28 Rimak wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2012 23:22 Misuari wrote:On May 31 2012 23:17 Mikelius wrote:On May 31 2012 23:10 Misuari wrote:
Hey i got another question . Sorry if i keep asking question tho . Here's the question : if a protoss opponents goes the same build as you and when a major fight happens , and you won , you tried to counter but there's cannon . so you sit back and turtle ,and then your ob saw the opponent going 2robo collosues . so what do i transition into then ? coll too or stargate? A single cannon dies to 2 zealots and a stalker easily, but if you feel you can't push him, contain him and expand and just out macro him. But be wary of warp prisms/proxy warp ins at your base. Yeah thats what i did at first. I turtle and get a third up. But i think i was focussing too much on my macro tho. i had an army waiting at my base . But once my obs sees the army moving , i know i was in deep shit as i had only 50 supply of army as i was focussing too much on my macro. He came and destroyed my 3rd and natural . my main was mined out. even if force field and perfect blink micro , the coll and zealots took out my army. any specific counter to coll and zealots army tho ? PvP lategame is colossi wars, sorry. Colossi is countered by more colossi. So More colossi > Less colossi. And just to be clear if your opponent is making colossi -> make your colossi. I was trying to see if any SG counters are possible, but failed, hard.
Hahahaha ohh okayy. thanks mann  . guess theres lots i needa learn ><
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On May 31 2012 23:39 Misuari wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2012 23:28 Rimak wrote:On May 31 2012 23:22 Misuari wrote:On May 31 2012 23:17 Mikelius wrote:On May 31 2012 23:10 Misuari wrote:
Hey i got another question . Sorry if i keep asking question tho . Here's the question : if a protoss opponents goes the same build as you and when a major fight happens , and you won , you tried to counter but there's cannon . so you sit back and turtle ,and then your ob saw the opponent going 2robo collosues . so what do i transition into then ? coll too or stargate? A single cannon dies to 2 zealots and a stalker easily, but if you feel you can't push him, contain him and expand and just out macro him. But be wary of warp prisms/proxy warp ins at your base. Yeah thats what i did at first. I turtle and get a third up. But i think i was focussing too much on my macro tho. i had an army waiting at my base . But once my obs sees the army moving , i know i was in deep shit as i had only 50 supply of army as i was focussing too much on my macro. He came and destroyed my 3rd and natural . my main was mined out. even if force field and perfect blink micro , the coll and zealots took out my army. any specific counter to coll and zealots army tho ? PvP lategame is colossi wars, sorry. Colossi is countered by more colossi. So More colossi > Less colossi. And just to be clear if your opponent is making colossi -> make your colossi. I was trying to see if any SG counters are possible, but failed, hard. Hahahaha ohh okayy. thanks mann . guess theres lots i needa learn ><
Collosi Wars are not standard. PvP is becoming a very good match up imo. Artosis posted a semi 'blog' about the PvP metagame a while back that had some flaws, but alot of usefull information.
PvP is kinda like this:
4 gate is still viable, but only if you do it by pushing up his ramp with your first zealot/stalker, and doing your first warpin inside his base. I do 4 gate alot, nobody seems to copy my 4 gate build, its super aggressive, alot of times they have a zealot/sentry or zealot/stalker themselves. There is no way for them to deny this push without killing your probe unless they are 4 gating i find, and then its just an even micro war.
Collosi Wars is the next 'viable' build people are doing. Generally this will be a 1 base push with 2 colosi with range, or 3 without. This is going outa style though for a more 'delayed' third where toss just keeps pumping them untill they have like 6. At around 6 most pros start focusing on upgrades and working towards charge.
The last build, the one i think your interested in. Is a blink opening that transitions into zealot/archon/immortal for the late game. Chargelot/Archon with Blink Support and Some Immortals can beat the Collosi, esp if they went Collosi with stalkers instead of Collosi with zealots. I find playing charge/archon against Collosi alot of fun. Makes it a big micro war where positioning is key. You can find alot of replays of this. HuK has done it, and I know Ace and Alicia liked this style for quite a while.
If you dont like 4 gate or Collosi builds. Look up Blink in Charge/Archon. Its amazing. There is a 4th build that goes stargate, but I really dont like opening stargate, you can be countered so easily if your opponent scouts you early with like a 1 gate robo.
Edit: PvP is my best MU, and i find alot of people hate it for alot of reasons that aren't valid. If your having problems with certain things PM me. I can show you or link you to some good info on Defending certain all-ins in PvP.
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Recently I feel I've been hitting a wall. I'm top masters with protoss, for (when this season finishes) 6 seasons in a row. Sometimes I beat high class grandmasters, sometimes I lose to mid masters. I always thought that when I would start to play more, I would eventually get to the point where I can get grandmaster, but I've been playing a lot more games this season and I'm still at the same rating I was before.
I've tryed to analyse my replays, but it looks like I'm losing to something different everytime. I also don't have trouble with particular matchup's, or strategys. Which maybe sounds strange. Sometimes I lose to mutas, sometimes I beat it, sometimes I kill a 4medivac push, sometimes I lose to it etc ...
I got the advice to try and play the other races, I've played some terran and zerg, got to a decent rank with them. It improved my matchup's some, but not that much.
Right now I'm extremely frustrated, and I don't know what to do anymore. How do I close the gap from high masters to maybe mid grandmaster with protoss?
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On June 01 2012 00:07 ThisIsRaichu wrote:
Recently I feel I've been hitting a wall. I'm top masters with protoss, for (when this season finishes) 6 seasons in a row. Sometimes I beat high class grandmasters, sometimes I lose to mid masters. I always thought that when I would start to play more, I would eventually get to the point where I can get grandmaster, but I've been playing a lot more games this season and I'm still at the same rating I was before.
I've tryed to analyse my replays, but it looks like I'm losing to something different everytime. I also don't have trouble with particular matchup's, or strategys. Which maybe sounds strange. Sometimes I lose to mutas, sometimes I beat it, sometimes I kill a 4medivac push, sometimes I lose to it etc ...
I got the advice to try and play the other races, I've played some terran and zerg, got to a decent rank with them. It improved my matchup's some, but not that much.
Right now I'm extremely frustrated, and I don't know what to do anymore. How do I close the gap from high masters to maybe mid grandmaster with protoss?
Your at the point where its easy to spot 'small' mistakes throughout the game it sounds, but having a problem finding a general problem with how your playing. I was like this for a while. I felt the same way about Muta's. Sometimes i abosolutely crushed it, other times i just F10/N as soon as I saw the pack.
At this point you should be comparing your games through Gears, and possibly looking at replays side by side.
Ladder games wont help at this point. Your at the point where I would recommend to find a good all-around zerg player thats good at ZvP (im using this just as an example). And play vs the same style multiple times. It will make it easier to spot changes/etc. Ladder games are just too different to analyze on a high level on a case by case basis. You must take your analysis deeper.
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On June 01 2012 00:07 ThisIsRaichu wrote:
Recently I feel I've been hitting a wall. I'm top masters with protoss, for (when this season finishes) 6 seasons in a row. Sometimes I beat high class grandmasters, sometimes I lose to mid masters. I always thought that when I would start to play more, I would eventually get to the point where I can get grandmaster, but I've been playing a lot more games this season and I'm still at the same rating I was before.
I've tryed to analyse my replays, but it looks like I'm losing to something different everytime. I also don't have trouble with particular matchup's, or strategys. Which maybe sounds strange. Sometimes I lose to mutas, sometimes I beat it, sometimes I kill a 4medivac push, sometimes I lose to it etc ...
I got the advice to try and play the other races, I've played some terran and zerg, got to a decent rank with them. It improved my matchup's some, but not that much.
Right now I'm extremely frustrated, and I don't know what to do anymore. How do I close the gap from high masters to maybe mid grandmaster with protoss?
When I use to play terran, I had the same problem. I find the best thing to do when plateauing is to start watching and understanding other parts of protoss that you dont usually use/open with. Being able to have a diverse amount of strageties will excel your power and understanding. It will also create better decsion making which is usually the difference between high master and gm. The only other thing between those two stages is unit control, which should be that much of a difference, but macro is important. Make sure that your builds are flowing properly and that you are able to get it down so perfectly, that for the first ten minutes that u dont have over 300 minerals at a given time ( except for expanding )
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On June 01 2012 00:06 ohampatu wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 31 2012 23:39 Misuari wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2012 23:28 Rimak wrote:On May 31 2012 23:22 Misuari wrote:On May 31 2012 23:17 Mikelius wrote:On May 31 2012 23:10 Misuari wrote:
Hey i got another question . Sorry if i keep asking question tho . Here's the question : if a protoss opponents goes the same build as you and when a major fight happens , and you won , you tried to counter but there's cannon . so you sit back and turtle ,and then your ob saw the opponent going 2robo collosues . so what do i transition into then ? coll too or stargate? A single cannon dies to 2 zealots and a stalker easily, but if you feel you can't push him, contain him and expand and just out macro him. But be wary of warp prisms/proxy warp ins at your base. Yeah thats what i did at first. I turtle and get a third up. But i think i was focussing too much on my macro tho. i had an army waiting at my base . But once my obs sees the army moving , i know i was in deep shit as i had only 50 supply of army as i was focussing too much on my macro. He came and destroyed my 3rd and natural . my main was mined out. even if force field and perfect blink micro , the coll and zealots took out my army. any specific counter to coll and zealots army tho ? PvP lategame is colossi wars, sorry. Colossi is countered by more colossi. So More colossi > Less colossi. And just to be clear if your opponent is making colossi -> make your colossi. I was trying to see if any SG counters are possible, but failed, hard. Hahahaha ohh okayy. thanks mann . guess theres lots i needa learn >< Collosi Wars are not standard. PvP is becoming a very good match up imo. Artosis posted a semi 'blog' about the PvP metagame a while back that had some flaws, but alot of usefull information. PvP is kinda like this: 4 gate is still viable, but only if you do it by pushing up his ramp with your first zealot/stalker, and doing your first warpin inside his base. I do 4 gate alot, nobody seems to copy my 4 gate build, its super aggressive, alot of times they have a zealot/sentry or zealot/stalker themselves. There is no way for them to deny this push without killing your probe unless they are 4 gating i find, and then its just an even micro war. Collosi Wars is the next 'viable' build people are doing. Generally this will be a 1 base push with 2 colosi with range, or 3 without. This is going outa style though for a more 'delayed' third where toss just keeps pumping them untill they have like 6. At around 6 most pros start focusing on upgrades and working towards charge. The last build, the one i think your interested in. Is a blink opening that transitions into zealot/archon/immortal for the late game. Chargelot/Archon with Blink Support and Some Immortals can beat the Collosi, esp if they went Collosi with stalkers instead of Collosi with zealots. I find playing charge/archon against Collosi alot of fun. Makes it a big micro war where positioning is key. You can find alot of replays of this. HuK has done it, and I know Ace and Alicia liked this style for quite a while. If you dont like 4 gate or Collosi builds. Look up Blink in Charge/Archon. Its amazing. There is a 4th build that goes stargate, but I really dont like opening stargate, you can be countered so easily if your opponent scouts you early with like a 1 gate robo. Edit: PvP is my best MU, and i find alot of people hate it for alot of reasons that aren't valid. If your having problems with certain things PM me. I can show you or link you to some good info on Defending certain all-ins in PvP.
Sorry if I miguided you, there are lots of things that happen early-midgame, that makes this MU very interesting.
Personally like to go DT FE with charge timing, but endgame is still turning around colossi.
So I meant lategame when was saying colo-wars.
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On June 01 2012 00:15 ohampatu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 00:07 ThisIsRaichu wrote:
Recently I feel I've been hitting a wall. I'm top masters with protoss, for (when this season finishes) 6 seasons in a row. Sometimes I beat high class grandmasters, sometimes I lose to mid masters. I always thought that when I would start to play more, I would eventually get to the point where I can get grandmaster, but I've been playing a lot more games this season and I'm still at the same rating I was before.
I've tryed to analyse my replays, but it looks like I'm losing to something different everytime. I also don't have trouble with particular matchup's, or strategys. Which maybe sounds strange. Sometimes I lose to mutas, sometimes I beat it, sometimes I kill a 4medivac push, sometimes I lose to it etc ...
I got the advice to try and play the other races, I've played some terran and zerg, got to a decent rank with them. It improved my matchup's some, but not that much.
Right now I'm extremely frustrated, and I don't know what to do anymore. How do I close the gap from high masters to maybe mid grandmaster with protoss? Your at the point where its easy to spot 'small' mistakes throughout the game it sounds, but having a problem finding a general problem with how your playing. I was like this for a while. I felt the same way about Muta's. Sometimes i abosolutely crushed it, other times i just F10/N as soon as I saw the pack. At this point you should be comparing your games through Gears, and possibly looking at replays side by side. Ladder games wont help at this point. Your at the point where I would recommend to find a good all-around zerg player thats good at ZvP (im using this just as an example). And play vs the same style multiple times. It will make it easier to spot changes/etc. Ladder games are just too different to analyze on a high level on a case by case basis. You must take your analysis deeper.
So you think from this point on, ladder games are just not good anymore? I've been playing only ladder up untill now
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Usually when i go for a dt fe,
i tend then to go with charge/archons but, i usually dont know when to take my 3rd at a proper time or when i should be attacking, as the other player is usualy going with collosus
should i stop w/ archons and make them myself? or is there a way that my archons need to be positioned properly so they can actually work, since i just usually just 1a ( lol only in this mu )
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On June 01 2012 00:20 ThisIsRaichu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 00:15 ohampatu wrote:On June 01 2012 00:07 ThisIsRaichu wrote:
Recently I feel I've been hitting a wall. I'm top masters with protoss, for (when this season finishes) 6 seasons in a row. Sometimes I beat high class grandmasters, sometimes I lose to mid masters. I always thought that when I would start to play more, I would eventually get to the point where I can get grandmaster, but I've been playing a lot more games this season and I'm still at the same rating I was before.
I've tryed to analyse my replays, but it looks like I'm losing to something different everytime. I also don't have trouble with particular matchup's, or strategys. Which maybe sounds strange. Sometimes I lose to mutas, sometimes I beat it, sometimes I kill a 4medivac push, sometimes I lose to it etc ...
I got the advice to try and play the other races, I've played some terran and zerg, got to a decent rank with them. It improved my matchup's some, but not that much.
Right now I'm extremely frustrated, and I don't know what to do anymore. How do I close the gap from high masters to maybe mid grandmaster with protoss? Your at the point where its easy to spot 'small' mistakes throughout the game it sounds, but having a problem finding a general problem with how your playing. I was like this for a while. I felt the same way about Muta's. Sometimes i abosolutely crushed it, other times i just F10/N as soon as I saw the pack. At this point you should be comparing your games through Gears, and possibly looking at replays side by side. Ladder games wont help at this point. Your at the point where I would recommend to find a good all-around zerg player thats good at ZvP (im using this just as an example). And play vs the same style multiple times. It will make it easier to spot changes/etc. Ladder games are just too different to analyze on a high level on a case by case basis. You must take your analysis deeper. So you think from this point on, ladder games are just not good anymore? I've been playing only ladder up untill now
No, ladder is still good because it pitts you vs alot of different crazy strategies. But if you can't find mistakes, like how you mentioned sometimes crushing muta and sometimes not, there's not an easy way to fix that through ladder analysis. Its better to find a zerg player, play vs muta like 10 times, analyze those games (with your partner, they can generally help if they are at the level your playing at), then do it again with a different practice partner. That way your facing 'different' styles of muta because your playing with diff people, but your playing enough games against that person that you can focus on certain things and improve. Ladder games are just inconsistant on what causes you to lose. If you have a friend who plays zerg who beats you with muta, he knows why he beat you. Play vs him 10 times, figure out how to beat him/what your doing wrong. Then start over with another good zerg player. I find this type of practice really really helps, esp for specific MU or specific styles. Every person plays a style differently. Ladder will still work, esp if your gosu, just Ladder Analysis isn't the easiest to do.
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On May 31 2012 23:22 Misuari wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2012 23:17 Mikelius wrote:On May 31 2012 23:10 Misuari wrote:
Hey i got another question . Sorry if i keep asking question tho . Here's the question : if a protoss opponents goes the same build as you and when a major fight happens , and you won , you tried to counter but there's cannon . so you sit back and turtle ,and then your ob saw the opponent going 2robo collosues . so what do i transition into then ? coll too or stargate? A single cannon dies to 2 zealots and a stalker easily, but if you feel you can't push him, contain him and expand and just out macro him. But be wary of warp prisms/proxy warp ins at your base. Yeah thats what i did at first. I turtle and get a third up. But i think i was focussing too much on my macro tho. i had an army waiting at my base . But once my obs sees the army moving , i know i was in deep shit as i had only 50 supply of army as i was focussing too much on my macro. He came and destroyed my 3rd and natural . my main was mined out. even if force field and perfect blink micro , the coll and zealots took out my army. any specific counter to coll and zealots army tho ?
Focusing on macro equals not missing warpin cycles, building probes and expanding. Sounds like you need to focus more on your macro if you only had a 50 food army after you did a good trade and he came back with a bigger army
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On June 01 2012 00:25 Brolettuce wrote:Usually when i go for a dt fe, i tend then to go with charge/archons but, i usually dont know when to take my 3rd at a proper time or when i should be attacking, as the other player is usualy going with collosus should i stop w/ archons and make them myself? or is there a way that my archons need to be positioned properly so they can actually work, since i just usually just 1a ( lol only in this mu )
you need to take your third quickly as possible. If you arent completely skipping warp in cycles, then your army should be better then his when entering mid game. Chargelot archon with even some immortals mixed in, will crush any kind of sub 150 colossus army, in open field. Since they will have difficulty moving out, take a quick third and then you need to find a way to start trading all those zealots efficiently while getting a high colossus count yourself. If you find yourself maxing out with a few colossus but you still have a ton of zealots, you will die in a straight up engagement. He will have more colossus than you and all that supply in zealots is next to worthless at that point. Even if you have to 3 prong drop his bases, you have to trade those zealots for anything to slow him down, ie: tech buildings, forges, and top priority, his colossus. You will have an eco advantage assuming you took the quick third and denied any kind of 3rd base he tried to take, so take advantage of it and trade units in favorable conditions and in the meanwhile get a high colossus count.
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What's the proper FFE setup on Daybreak? I don't have problems with mine but want to know if there are better setups for what I want to achieve. Say im bottom position, I do pylon to the left of where the forge goes, the forge to form the 5 space block in front of the ramp, the cannon next to the pylon (7blocks), the gateway in front of cannon, and the nexus to left of cannon. Anybody got something different?
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+ Show Spoiler +On June 01 2012 00:06 ohampatu wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2012 23:39 Misuari wrote:On May 31 2012 23:28 Rimak wrote:On May 31 2012 23:22 Misuari wrote:On May 31 2012 23:17 Mikelius wrote:On May 31 2012 23:10 Misuari wrote:
Hey i got another question . Sorry if i keep asking question tho . Here's the question : if a protoss opponents goes the same build as you and when a major fight happens , and you won , you tried to counter but there's cannon . so you sit back and turtle ,and then your ob saw the opponent going 2robo collosues . so what do i transition into then ? coll too or stargate? A single cannon dies to 2 zealots and a stalker easily, but if you feel you can't push him, contain him and expand and just out macro him. But be wary of warp prisms/proxy warp ins at your base. Yeah thats what i did at first. I turtle and get a third up. But i think i was focussing too much on my macro tho. i had an army waiting at my base . But once my obs sees the army moving , i know i was in deep shit as i had only 50 supply of army as i was focussing too much on my macro. He came and destroyed my 3rd and natural . my main was mined out. even if force field and perfect blink micro , the coll and zealots took out my army. any specific counter to coll and zealots army tho ? PvP lategame is colossi wars, sorry. Colossi is countered by more colossi. So More colossi > Less colossi. And just to be clear if your opponent is making colossi -> make your colossi. I was trying to see if any SG counters are possible, but failed, hard. Hahahaha ohh okayy. thanks mann . guess theres lots i needa learn >< Collosi Wars are not standard. PvP is becoming a very good match up imo. Artosis posted a semi 'blog' about the PvP metagame a while back that had some flaws, but alot of usefull information. PvP is kinda like this: 4 gate is still viable, but only if you do it by pushing up his ramp with your first zealot/stalker, and doing your first warpin inside his base. I do 4 gate alot, nobody seems to copy my 4 gate build, its super aggressive, alot of times they have a zealot/sentry or zealot/stalker themselves. There is no way for them to deny this push without killing your probe unless they are 4 gating i find, and then its just an even micro war. Collosi Wars is the next 'viable' build people are doing. Generally this will be a 1 base push with 2 colosi with range, or 3 without. This is going outa style though for a more 'delayed' third where toss just keeps pumping them untill they have like 6. At around 6 most pros start focusing on upgrades and working towards charge. The last build, the one i think your interested in. Is a blink opening that transitions into zealot/archon/immortal for the late game. Chargelot/Archon with Blink Support and Some Immortals can beat the Collosi, esp if they went Collosi with stalkers instead of Collosi with zealots. I find playing charge/archon against Collosi alot of fun. Makes it a big micro war where positioning is key. You can find alot of replays of this. HuK has done it, and I know Ace and Alicia liked this style for quite a while. If you dont like 4 gate or Collosi builds. Look up Blink in Charge/Archon. Its amazing. There is a 4th build that goes stargate, but I really dont like opening stargate, you can be countered so easily if your opponent scouts you early with like a 1 gate robo. Edit: PvP is my best MU, and i find alot of people hate it for alot of reasons that aren't valid. If your having problems with certain things PM me. I can show you or link you to some good info on Defending certain all-ins in PvP.
While true, at max you need at least around 8-10 colossus regardless of your mid game composition. If you go Charge archon after blink you still need to transition into double robo at some point if you can not win mid game. If you are behind on Colo count, you can still be fine if you can get a mothership/vortex first.
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On June 01 2012 03:48 TheExodus wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2012 23:22 Misuari wrote:On May 31 2012 23:17 Mikelius wrote:On May 31 2012 23:10 Misuari wrote:
Hey i got another question . Sorry if i keep asking question tho . Here's the question : if a protoss opponents goes the same build as you and when a major fight happens , and you won , you tried to counter but there's cannon . so you sit back and turtle ,and then your ob saw the opponent going 2robo collosues . so what do i transition into then ? coll too or stargate? A single cannon dies to 2 zealots and a stalker easily, but if you feel you can't push him, contain him and expand and just out macro him. But be wary of warp prisms/proxy warp ins at your base. Yeah thats what i did at first. I turtle and get a third up. But i think i was focussing too much on my macro tho. i had an army waiting at my base . But once my obs sees the army moving , i know i was in deep shit as i had only 50 supply of army as i was focussing too much on my macro. He came and destroyed my 3rd and natural . my main was mined out. even if force field and perfect blink micro , the coll and zealots took out my army. any specific counter to coll and zealots army tho ? Focusing on macro equals not missing warpin cycles, building probes and expanding. Sounds like you need to focus more on your macro if you only had a 50 food army after you did a good trade and he came back with a bigger army
Yeah guess i was focussing too much on my expansion that i miss alot of warp in cycle's . a bad play from my part tho . and also didnt realise my robo was blocked. hate it what that happens . lol . thanks tho !hopefully this wont happen again ^^
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EPT
