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Northern Ireland23825 Posts
On January 17 2012 06:21 Sentient wrote:
What is the general consensus for PvZ openings on Tal'Darim Alter?
Normally I dislike the forge fast expand. I'm not comfortable telling the Zerg he's free to take an early third and drone to his heart's content. I prefer 1 or 3-gate expand (depending on how many lings I see and whether they get early speed). With the right pressure I can force a lot of zerglings or roaches and get my third up only slightly after the Zerg. Usually when the Zerg takes an greedy third I kill him outright with just 3-4 gateways.
The rocks on Tal'Darim are giving me a hard time though. My army sometimes gets caught out of position while killing the rocks, and the nexus is very vulnerable. It's much harder to pressure because of the very wide choke and my opponents now usually favor 4-5 spine crawlers as defense, so I don't even get to force that many units. And because the rocks are there, the Zerg can't take a really fast third anyway, negating the entire point of my approach.
Is there a better way? Should I just resign to FFE on this map?
FFE. I'm not a brilliant player by any means and it took me longer than it really should have to get that opener down 100%, but my success on that map is much, much higher with it, to the extent I feel it's the optimal opener on that map. There's a terrible combination of a wide choke, lots of good positions for spotting overlords and a pretty long rush distance so you can't really surprise them with gate opener pressure particularly well. FFE, even if your pressure is scouted and shut down, at least is better economically and I feel a lot safer pressuring with the cannon/sentry combo shielding my base. An additional benefit is the dreaded mutalisk are extremely effective on Taldarim and the favoured response of many is to 'just go kill him before he gets a critical mass of them'. 6/7, even 8 gate timings off an FFE are more effective 2 base timings that hit harder than similar all-ins off gate expands.
Now for my question, regarding the dreaded mutalisk. I swear I miss storms all the time on these things. It's not their movespeed but the fact they're in the air kind of distorting my perception of where to put my storms. Sounds silly but it's genuinely a real problem for me.
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On January 17 2012 06:36 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2012 06:21 Sentient wrote:
What is the general consensus for PvZ openings on Tal'Darim Alter?
Normally I dislike the forge fast expand. I'm not comfortable telling the Zerg he's free to take an early third and drone to his heart's content. I prefer 1 or 3-gate expand (depending on how many lings I see and whether they get early speed). With the right pressure I can force a lot of zerglings or roaches and get my third up only slightly after the Zerg. Usually when the Zerg takes an greedy third I kill him outright with just 3-4 gateways.
The rocks on Tal'Darim are giving me a hard time though. My army sometimes gets caught out of position while killing the rocks, and the nexus is very vulnerable. It's much harder to pressure because of the very wide choke and my opponents now usually favor 4-5 spine crawlers as defense, so I don't even get to force that many units. And because the rocks are there, the Zerg can't take a really fast third anyway, negating the entire point of my approach.
Is there a better way? Should I just resign to FFE on this map? FFE. I'm not a brilliant player by any means and it took me longer than it really should have to get that opener down 100%, but my success on that map is much, much higher with it, to the extent I feel it's the optimal opener on that map. There's a terrible combination of a wide choke, lots of good positions for spotting overlords and a pretty long rush distance so you can't really surprise them with gate opener pressure particularly well. FFE, even if your pressure is scouted and shut down, at least is better economically and I feel a lot safer pressuring with the cannon/sentry combo shielding my base. An additional benefit is the dreaded mutalisk are extremely effective on Taldarim and the favoured response of many is to 'just go kill him before he gets a critical mass of them'. 6/7, even 8 gate timings off an FFE are more effective 2 base timings that hit harder than similar all-ins off gate expands. Now for my question, regarding the dreaded mutalisk. I swear I miss storms all the time on these things. It's not their movespeed but the fact they're in the air kind of distorting my perception of where to put my storms. Sounds silly but it's genuinely a real problem for me.
Thanks! I guess I'll give FFE a try then.
For targeting mutalisks, make sure you have "Show Flyer Helper" in the gameplay settings set to 'Always'. For every air unit, it will give you a red line to the ground plus a circle that shows their actual location. Cast storm on the red circles to hit the mutalisks. My mind was truly blown when I discovered this.
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Northern Ireland23825 Posts
On January 17 2012 06:42 Sentient wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2012 06:36 Wombat_NI wrote:On January 17 2012 06:21 Sentient wrote:
What is the general consensus for PvZ openings on Tal'Darim Alter?
Normally I dislike the forge fast expand. I'm not comfortable telling the Zerg he's free to take an early third and drone to his heart's content. I prefer 1 or 3-gate expand (depending on how many lings I see and whether they get early speed). With the right pressure I can force a lot of zerglings or roaches and get my third up only slightly after the Zerg. Usually when the Zerg takes an greedy third I kill him outright with just 3-4 gateways.
The rocks on Tal'Darim are giving me a hard time though. My army sometimes gets caught out of position while killing the rocks, and the nexus is very vulnerable. It's much harder to pressure because of the very wide choke and my opponents now usually favor 4-5 spine crawlers as defense, so I don't even get to force that many units. And because the rocks are there, the Zerg can't take a really fast third anyway, negating the entire point of my approach.
Is there a better way? Should I just resign to FFE on this map? FFE. I'm not a brilliant player by any means and it took me longer than it really should have to get that opener down 100%, but my success on that map is much, much higher with it, to the extent I feel it's the optimal opener on that map. There's a terrible combination of a wide choke, lots of good positions for spotting overlords and a pretty long rush distance so you can't really surprise them with gate opener pressure particularly well. FFE, even if your pressure is scouted and shut down, at least is better economically and I feel a lot safer pressuring with the cannon/sentry combo shielding my base. An additional benefit is the dreaded mutalisk are extremely effective on Taldarim and the favoured response of many is to 'just go kill him before he gets a critical mass of them'. 6/7, even 8 gate timings off an FFE are more effective 2 base timings that hit harder than similar all-ins off gate expands. Now for my question, regarding the dreaded mutalisk. I swear I miss storms all the time on these things. It's not their movespeed but the fact they're in the air kind of distorting my perception of where to put my storms. Sounds silly but it's genuinely a real problem for me. Thanks! I guess I'll give FFE a try then. For targeting mutalisks, make sure you have "Show Flyer Helper" in the gameplay settings set to 'Always'. For every air unit, it will give you a red line to the ground plus a circle that shows their actual location. Cast storm on the red circles to hit the mutalisks. My mind was truly blown when I discovered this.
Wait, that's what that does? Godamnit this would have been pretty helpful to know a month ago when every Zerg started abusing mutas. Thanks a lot man, nice quid pro quo there 
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On January 17 2012 05:34 Larkin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2012 03:34 Roynalf wrote:
in situations like that dont be afraid to pull probes to fight, marauders only do 9 damage per shot to probes so they are perfect to tank marauder shots, try to surround the marauders with probes and then focus fire the marines with stalkers. Scout more. I prefer to get zealot, stalker, senty and be active with your fast units like stalkers. you can kite scvs and marines for evert with your stalkers so poking at terran ramp with your stalker is great idea, watch out concussive shells.
Usually it's a marine/marauder ball of like 8 marines and 4 marauders, so the marines just stim and kill the probes in an instant, then even if I do hold it off I'm behind cause they can MULE while I have to rebuild units as well as probes. Though I'll try to be more aggressive with my first stalker, maybe do a 3 stalker rush into robo or something. Usually I sit back and build up the deathball while harassing with chargelots once I get into midgame, because nearly every Terran I play throws down a bunker at the top of their ramp, making me think they're going to expand in the early game. Thanks.
Out of curiosity, what is the timing for these attacks? It seems like you should have sentries up to help defend (assuming WG at 6 min with 4 chrono on core and 1 chrono on gate; you should also have 3 - 4 units out of your gate by the time Wg research is completed). Also, what is your opening in PvT? I ask because even though I am only in Gold, it sounds like something that you should be able to hold given enough information, sentries, and units.
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Ok so im finding myself in a difficult position quite often.
Im high platinum atm (rank 2, waiting for my promotion -_-) cos i used to be diamond about 4 months ago
im seeing alot of cheese, espeically from zergs, so im really reluctant to FFE - along with the fact that my mechanics arent yet back to what they used to be.
So one thing that really causes me problems is vs random. Ive had a few times where ive vsed a random, and they turned out to be zerg. I have to 9 pylon scout, with the pylon in my main near the ramp. What can i do once i know that hes zerg, and that hes gone hatch first?
how do i secure a fast, safe expo if ive already got the gateway up, and maybe even the gas + pylon
Ive just been doing a 3 gate expo, but it seems to put me really really far behind, i cant even punish him with gateway units cos of the size of the maps, even if he hatch first and late gas, he can still have a nice defence up by the time i get there weather its 3 gate pressure or 5+ gates off 2 base.
Bit long winded i know, but i could really do with help. I feel like it really knocks me off for the whole game when i vs zerg off random, and alot of the time they're jus pointless games that i know i have no chance of winning. Might just try a DT rush or something -_-
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Northern Ireland23825 Posts
Also @ Sentient, sorry for glossing over your point regarding getting caught out of position/surprised while taking down the rocks on Tal'Darim and securing a 3rd base. Now I personally think it's a prudent investment to put a forward pylon well forward of the Nexus position just in case of flanks. It's a relatively small investment for some good information and extra safety.
@ Larkin http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=294136
This may not be an opener you are overly confident in executing, but the guide itself is great in just giving you a sense of the kind of things to look out for and the correct responses.
Also, the point above regarding playing randoms is something that bothers me. This season on ladder I have also ONLY played v random on Tal'Darim altar. I find this incredibly obnoxious to do, I can't do my favoured openings vs any of the 3 races blindly on the 2/3 chance that I pick wrong.
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On January 17 2012 10:11 Wombat_NI wrote:Also @ Sentient, sorry for glossing over your point regarding getting caught out of position/surprised while taking down the rocks on Tal'Darim and securing a 3rd base. Now I personally think it's a prudent investment to put a forward pylon well forward of the Nexus position just in case of flanks. It's a relatively small investment for some good information and extra safety. @ Larkin http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=294136 This may not be an opener you are overly confident in executing, but the guide itself is great in just giving you a sense of the kind of things to look out for and the correct responses. Also, the point above regarding playing randoms is something that bothers me. This season on ladder I have also ONLY played v random on Tal'Darim altar. I find this incredibly obnoxious to do, I can't do my favoured openings vs any of the 3 races blindly on the 2/3 chance that I pick wrong.
yea i get it on antigua alot, and the zerg can just hit 3 bases really really quickly and if you go for a gate expand there isnt much you can do about it, if your opponent is decent
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Northern Ireland23825 Posts
On January 17 2012 10:20 ThatGuy89 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2012 10:11 Wombat_NI wrote:Also @ Sentient, sorry for glossing over your point regarding getting caught out of position/surprised while taking down the rocks on Tal'Darim and securing a 3rd base. Now I personally think it's a prudent investment to put a forward pylon well forward of the Nexus position just in case of flanks. It's a relatively small investment for some good information and extra safety. @ Larkin http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=294136 This may not be an opener you are overly confident in executing, but the guide itself is great in just giving you a sense of the kind of things to look out for and the correct responses. Also, the point above regarding playing randoms is something that bothers me. This season on ladder I have also ONLY played v random on Tal'Darim altar. I find this incredibly obnoxious to do, I can't do my favoured openings vs any of the 3 races blindly on the 2/3 chance that I pick wrong. yea i get it on antigua alot, and the zerg can just hit 3 bases really really quickly and if you go for a gate expand there isnt much you can do about it, if your opponent is decent
That's true, although sometimes I can win with ease off a 3 gate expand, I think it was Belial was discussing the reasonings behind it, namely Z are so used to responding to an FFE that their responses to a 3 gate are a bit rusty.
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On January 17 2012 10:10 ThatGuy89 wrote:
Ok so im finding myself in a difficult position quite often.
Im high platinum atm (rank 2, waiting for my promotion -_-) cos i used to be diamond about 4 months ago
im seeing alot of cheese, espeically from zergs, so im really reluctant to FFE - along with the fact that my mechanics arent yet back to what they used to be.
So one thing that really causes me problems is vs random. Ive had a few times where ive vsed a random, and they turned out to be zerg. I have to 9 pylon scout, with the pylon in my main near the ramp. What can i do once i know that hes zerg, and that hes gone hatch first?
how do i secure a fast, safe expo if ive already got the gateway up, and maybe even the gas + pylon
Ive just been doing a 3 gate expo, but it seems to put me really really far behind, i cant even punish him with gateway units cos of the size of the maps, even if he hatch first and late gas, he can still have a nice defence up by the time i get there weather its 3 gate pressure or 5+ gates off 2 base.
Bit long winded i know, but i could really do with help. I feel like it really knocks me off for the whole game when i vs zerg off random, and alot of the time they're jus pointless games that i know i have no chance of winning. Might just try a DT rush or something -_-
If he's gone hatch first, you can stop making units/probes and save up 400 minerals for a 1-gate expand, and then resume production from there. Obviously not quite as good as a FFE, but its the safe macro play for that particular situation.
Its also important to know that 1-gate expand is not safe vs a Speedling opener (14 gas 14 pool) because if he just decides to burn a round of larva on lings, he can force a cancel before you have enough units to stop them. I like 3 gate expo with Stalker/Sentry pressure here - either he doesn't prepare correctly and you win outright or set him way back, or he does prepare correctly and you can forcefield and escape knowing he burned larva on something that wasn't drones. Its important to have a probe stashed for the proxy pylon or you're right - the zerg will repel you much more easily.
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Guys I have a specific problem.
I always struggle taking a 3rd against zergs who and roach heavy in the mid game. I often find that they are happy to suicide what is essentially a cost effective army (roach / ling) to take out some of my army but mostly deny my 3rd.
Advice i have been given is to be sentry heavy in early game for FF's and built up energy by the time you are ready to take 3rd. I feel like this will restrict many of the openings I currently use.... such as fast +1 zeal with stargate etc. Its impossible to have a good amount of sentries ready for the mid game with these openings.
Does anyone else have suggestions against the regularity of mid game roach pushes? I was thinking immortals should be mixed in off 2 robo.. almost blindly. Then go immortal / blink stalker with a transition to HT & arcon should the Z go for hydra. Its really the roaches that cause the problem as they can both take and deal surprising amounts of damage when upgraded for a unit that only costs 75 / 25.
Help please.
Im a top 25 master league player on both SEA and NA.
Thanks.
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So any general advice against delayed 1/1/1? I just lost a game where he hit at around the 13 minutes mark (technically it was a 3/1/1). The thing is, if you think, that will leave you open for a normal 1/1/1, but the later the game goes, I feel like you really need that Storm/Collosus/Armor+Charge to deal with the gigantic amount of Marines/SCVs that the Terran will throw at you. I mean, at what point can you safely tech, at what point does a mass amount of un-upgraded units works, etc.
For background: http://drop.sc/93374
Looking back, I completely forgot my Sentries, and I could have CB'd a Colossus out in time for that fight, especially if I waited at my natural instead of trying that side flank without Charge. Do you think that would have been the difference maker?
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Any thoughts on the minimum number of Sentries off of a gate expand in PvZ? This is assuming the push-out at 7/8 minutes to put some pressure on the Zerg (you may have already pressured with your initial Zealot(s) and maybe Stalkers). I know in the early days of the classic 3 Gate expo we'd see 8+ sentries which I think is too much. I'd just like to know some thoughts on the minimum number required for this push. Personally, I think 6 (with 5 as a bare minimum) but maybe even 4 is possible on smaller maps (or maps with good chokes) although you'd have to be so careful not to lose a Sentry as it would be effectively gg if your Sentry count was too low. Thanks.
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On January 17 2012 17:37 Supah wrote:So any general advice against delayed 1/1/1? I just lost a game where he hit at around the 13 minutes mark (technically it was a 3/1/1). The thing is, if you think, that will leave you open for a normal 1/1/1, but the later the game goes, I feel like you really need that Storm/Collosus/Armor+Charge to deal with the gigantic amount of Marines/SCVs that the Terran will throw at you. I mean, at what point can you safely tech, at what point does a mass amount of un-upgraded units works, etc. For background: http://drop.sc/93374Looking back, I completely forgot my Sentries, and I could have CB'd a Colossus out in time for that fight, especially if I waited at my natural instead of trying that side flank without Charge. Do you think that would have been the difference maker?
Just watched the game, he hit around the 13 min mark, and besides the first push which killed like 3 probes and 2 units, he basically left you alone. You had an obs at his front which meant you knew he wasnt expanding, you saw the unit comp which means you could have prepared. This sets the stage of the game, so what could you have done?
1) Make more workers, you were on 2 base after 1 gate FE, you held the pressure, he was on 1 base you were on 2, yet only making out of 1 CC he only had 6 less workers than you when he pushed with mules this means even less. With CB and 2 bases there is no way this should have happened, even if you cut some cos you thought his push was coming.
If you made workers when you had spare resources you should have easily been sitting at 50+ which would give you more money for everything. You were on 2 base but on a 1.5 base economy. You were not really floating THAT much minerals throughout the game (which is good) but the reason that happens is cos you basically were not having enough income. I hate to say this but macro better would be the 1st thing to beating the specific push in the game, and I wouldnt call that a 1/1/1 since all terrans will probably get some variation of all 3 buildings anyway.
2) No tech, 14 mins in, you were on 0/0 upgrades, which should not have had happened if you were left alone. Not only that you had no charge no storms no colo, as basic as a 1/1/1 is, he was basically on a higher tech level than you. I feel that if you had gotten any of charge/colo/storms (and had slightly more units), you would have held that easy. You saw him 1 basing hard, you should have shat your pants and macro-ed hard. I dont see the reason for trying to poke around his base with your stalkers, well you didnt lose any so i guess that ok, but youre basically wasting your attention and focus.
If you did any of the 2, you would probably have held that no problem. The 1/1/1 is supposed to hit when you neither have macro nor that much tech, which is why either 1 gate expo or fast tech beats it.
After the first push I would try to position a probe at his nat to see if/when he takes it, in actual fact the first push should never have had happened if it was a true 1/1/1, so usually i would have put a probe there sooner. But you had an obs so i guess that was ok. Although usually the scan snipes it, so the probe helps.
As long he doesnt expand, there is no real reason for you to expand, only expand if your main is running out and you have the spare minerals. All other resources should go to tech and units (once you hit ~55 probes on 2 base), you should probably have been near maxed or had a lot of tech after being left alone for so long. Ideally, as you mentioned you want the combination of 3 colo/storms/charge and you'll crush any push the terran can muster. You can think of dropping tech after you deflected the first push. Immediately drop the council, and then if you want storm, on 4 gas you could have done that, gotten +1 and had 2-3 immortals and a nice zealot army for the push.
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Hi again.
I just lost to what I'm sure is a terrible Terran strategy, so I'd like to know the appropriate response for future reference.
Though it embarasses me to show this, here is the replay: http://drop.sc/94189
Map was Arid Plateau. What the Terran did:
11/12 2-rax
Build 4 marines
Pull 10 SCVs (leaving behind 3 just when his orbital finishes)
Keep sending marines.
He left his base just as my cybernetics core finished and got to my ramp at 4:30. At this point my warp gate was only at 60/160 (I spent a chronoboost on it, perhaps this was my mistake because there was no way warp gate would finish in time).
I scouted the two barracks right away and assumed it was some kind of marine all in. I built a zealot and then a sentry for forcefield, and a second gate. The second gateway was only at 45/65 when he got to my ramp. I tried to build a second sentry but it wasn't in time to stop him from coming up the ramp.
So I made a bunch of mistakes clearly. I've never seen this before so I wasn't sure what to do. If I could have done it differently:
1. Not lose my zealot. (My micro sucks.)
2. Skip the second assimilator and get the second gateway sooner. (I didn't realize his attack was coming so soon.)
3. Chronoboost the stalker or sentry instead of wasting one on the warp gate. (The game was going to be decided before warp gates finished.)
Best case scenario I would have had a zealot, sentry, and stalker with a second stalker almost finished. This is against 4 marines, 10 SCVs, with a constant stream of reinforcing marines. It seems like a no-brainer win for me as long as I pull the right amount of probes. But once Terran starts trying to build bunkers, I'm not so sure, and if he finishes a bunker then I'm screwed.
I asked him at the end how to stop it. He said cannons, which I think is stupid because as soon as he scouts it and doesn't all-in, I'm behind for the rest of the game.
What really bothers me though is this. I scouted the 11/12 and knew a marine all in was coming, but I didn't know when or if he'd pull SCVs. If it was a later push then I'd really want a second gas for the extra sentries and even guardian shield. For this early push I'd probably only want one. I can't know which he's going to do, and by the time he moves out, it's too late to respond. Is there a happy medium that can comfortably hold off both types of pushes?
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Upgrade timings
Usually around the 10:00 mark I will throw up two forges if I don't need to do anything urgent like building another tech building or something like making a defend. But I feel like upgrades are not something as vague and subject to change as something like an expansion is.
Is there a more specific indicator/rule to follow when dealing with upgrades? I know there are some build-specific ones, but more in general I need to know what to do.
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Northern Ireland23825 Posts
On January 18 2012 06:35 RexDeusum wrote:
Upgrade timings
Usually around the 10:00 mark I will throw up two forges if I don't need to do anything urgent like building another tech building or something like making a defend. But I feel like upgrades are not something as vague and subject to change as something like an expansion is.
Is there a more specific indicator/rule to follow when dealing with upgrades? I know there are some build-specific ones, but more in general I need to know what to do.
Generally it depends on your approach. If you are playing defensively and getting heavy gate support, the quicker you can get upgrades the better.
If you're going for old-school early collosus builds you generally start getting your upgrades behind the collosus infrastructure, i.e once your robo bay is done and if when have sufficient funds to do keep up collosus production and upgrades, you do this. At least as far as I have managed in my play and what I have observed from much better players than I.
Third rule-of-thumb is if you see your opponent going for an upgrade build, especially dual engi bay you have to respond with upgrades of your own in turn. In addition their pursuit of upgrades delays potential death pushes so you can be greedier with your third base.
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This might have already been answered so sorry if it was but how many sentries should you get in PvT and PvZ. Is the three stalker rush good vs anything buy a 4 gate?
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On January 18 2012 08:39 Ksquared wrote:
This might have already been answered so sorry if it was but how many sentries should you get in PvT and PvZ. Is the three stalker rush good vs anything buy a 4 gate?
In PvT, i would recommend getting 3-5 early game, 4 should be about right
(Unless you're hero and you do weird sentry zealot drops; then you might need more)
In PvZ i recommend at least getting 6-8, but 8 seems kinda overboard on the gas because you want your tech out asap, so most people would probably say somewhere around 5-7
3 Stalker rush actually seems pretty viable even if they don't 4gate. you can transition into blink, and gain map control if they went robo, or go robo yourself into some sort of 3gate robo build.
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On January 18 2012 05:19 Sentient wrote:Hi again. I just lost to what I'm sure is a terrible Terran strategy, so I'd like to know the appropriate response for future reference. Though it embarasses me to show this, here is the replay: http://drop.sc/94189Map was Arid Plateau. What the Terran did: 11/12 2-rax Build 4 marines Pull 10 SCVs (leaving behind 3 just when his orbital finishes) Keep sending marines. He left his base just as my cybernetics core finished and got to my ramp at 4:30. At this point my warp gate was only at 60/160 (I spent a chronoboost on it, perhaps this was my mistake because there was no way warp gate would finish in time). I scouted the two barracks right away and assumed it was some kind of marine all in. I built a zealot and then a sentry for forcefield, and a second gate. The second gateway was only at 45/65 when he got to my ramp. I tried to build a second sentry but it wasn't in time to stop him from coming up the ramp. So I made a bunch of mistakes clearly. I've never seen this before so I wasn't sure what to do. If I could have done it differently: 1. Not lose my zealot. (My micro sucks.) 2. Skip the second assimilator and get the second gateway sooner. (I didn't realize his attack was coming so soon.) 3. Chronoboost the stalker or sentry instead of wasting one on the warp gate. (The game was going to be decided before warp gates finished.) Best case scenario I would have had a zealot, sentry, and stalker with a second stalker almost finished. This is against 4 marines, 10 SCVs, with a constant stream of reinforcing marines. It seems like a no-brainer win for me as long as I pull the right amount of probes. But once Terran starts trying to build bunkers, I'm not so sure, and if he finishes a bunker then I'm screwed. I asked him at the end how to stop it. He said cannons, which I think is stupid because as soon as he scouts it and doesn't all-in, I'm behind for the rest of the game. What really bothers me though is this. I scouted the 11/12 and knew a marine all in was coming, but I didn't know when or if he'd pull SCVs. If it was a later push then I'd really want a second gas for the extra sentries and even guardian shield. For this early push I'd probably only want one. I can't know which he's going to do, and by the time he moves out, it's too late to respond. Is there a happy medium that can comfortably hold off both types of pushes?
Hey there,
can you provide a replay? :D
If he brings along 10 scvs that early in the game, feel free to pull a few probes too, since if he hasn't been mining as much as you, then he probably doesn't have many scvs, so you can pull like 10-12 and be fine. Try to get a surround as they come up the ramp
chronoboost out units asap, and if your fighting units die, pull them back so buildings can tank some of the damage that the rines and scvs do.
Stalkers if microed at an adequate level can take out around 3 marines in my experience, so getting out a stalker instead of a sentry to block might have been better in this case. zealots bash the scvs and probes help take some damage and stalkers take out the rines in the back.
Hope i helped :D
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On January 18 2012 08:46 sYnKaotyk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2012 08:39 Ksquared wrote:
This might have already been answered so sorry if it was but how many sentries should you get in PvT and PvZ. Is the three stalker rush good vs anything buy a 4 gate? In PvT, i would recommend getting 3-5 early game, 4 should be about right (Unless you're hero and you do weird sentry zealot drops; then you might need more) In PvZ i recommend at least getting 6-8, but 8 seems kinda overboard on the gas because you want your tech out asap, so most people would probably say somewhere around 5-7 3 Stalker rush actually seems pretty viable even if they don't 4gate. you can transition into blink, and gain map control if they went robo, or go robo yourself into some sort of 3gate robo build.
Thanks! What is the best way to use blink micro? Is it better to blink one back or a group of them?
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EPT
