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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. |
On January 13 2012 09:59 Alejandrisha wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 09:57 -JoKeR- wrote:
Does anyone have a good replay of some protoss going for a +1 zealot timing with a voidray? I want to learn that build. which matchup? i'm assuming pvz but i've seen stargate openers in pvp that turn into void ray zealot all-ins against expansions but usually they don't get a +1
Yea should have been more clear. I am looking for a replay specifically for the PvZ MU a +1 Zealot timing with a voidray that hits around the 8 minute mark.
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On January 13 2012 10:00 PsyChill wrote:
What is the correct response in PvP when I go 1gate blink observer when the other protoss goes 3 gate robo into immortal collosi?
this is the hardest thing to do deal as a blink obs user. against safe robo player, you really cannot bust him with blink rush, even if they expand after 3 gates, and an immortal on maps with a safe natural. that being said, i think the best response is to take a risk-- expand as soon as you see robo and no twilight and be greedy as hell by cutting out gw unit production and trying to get our your own colossus and getting a few more probes than he has, plus an expansion and trying to align your production off 1 robo colossus and 4-5 gates of zealot stalker right as his push is eminent. mean while, threaten blink-ins to the main and sniping any pylons too close to the edge of his base.
on the other hand, you can try to get your own colossus out, delaying the push by threatening with blink-ins as much as possible.
i think blink-robo gets behind safe robo play off the bat, so i think one of these risks is in order to close the gap. this is mainly because of the range 6 immortal; no longer can you be extremely effective in kiting the death push around while waiting for your production off of 2 bases to kick in. you have to be much more crafty to win in this clash of build orders, nowadays
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On January 13 2012 10:00 PsyChill wrote:
What is the correct response in PvP when I go 1gate blink observer when the other protoss goes 3 gate robo into immortal collosi?
Ninja expand and dodge his army/base-race if he attacks. When you get ahead in economy just go for chargelot/immortal/archon/blinkstalker or clossi, but catching up with colossi is dangereous.
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Any tips on how to be aggressive?
My mind just tells me wait for this or that everytime i think about attacking.
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On January 13 2012 11:52 sikender1 wrote:
Any tips on how to be aggressive?
My mind just tells me wait for this or that everytime i think about attacking.
Good scouting will let you know what your opponent has and where his army is, which is the information you'll need to be able to move out safely.
In the early game, use your stalkers to move out and scout/pressure, even if he has more then you, you can safely retreat.
In the mid game, blink stalkers should always be doing something, scouting his front, blinking in and out etc...
If you have phoenixes you can always be aggressive as well with those.
If you are playing in the dark and massing colossi until maxed without scouting, then , no, there is no option to be aggressive then to wait for 200/200. When I feel like playing lazy on ladder I do this a lot. I don't even push when I'm maxed, but I make a ton of gateways and bank resources ^^
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Italy12247 Posts
On January 13 2012 10:07 Alejandrisha wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 10:00 PsyChill wrote:
What is the correct response in PvP when I go 1gate blink observer when the other protoss goes 3 gate robo into immortal collosi? this is the hardest thing to do deal as a blink obs user. against safe robo player, you really cannot bust him with blink rush, even if they expand after 3 gates, and an immortal on maps with a safe natural. that being said, i think the best response is to take a risk-- expand as soon as you see robo and no twilight and be greedy as hell by cutting out gw unit production and trying to get our your own colossus and getting a few more probes than he has, plus an expansion and trying to align your production off 1 robo colossus and 4-5 gates of zealot stalker right as his push is eminent. mean while, threaten blink-ins to the main and sniping any pylons too close to the edge of his base. on the other hand, you can try to get your own colossus out, delaying the push by threatening with blink-ins as much as possible. i think blink-robo gets behind safe robo play off the bat, so i think one of these risks is in order to close the gap. this is mainly because of the range 6 immortal; no longer can you be extremely effective in kiting the death push around while waiting for your production off of 2 bases to kick in. you have to be much more crafty to win in this clash of build orders, nowadays
I keep my scouting probe (or another probe) out on the map (at another nat, or in a side expansion) precisely because of situations like this. If my obs sees anything with less mobility than me (no twilight council, no stargate), i always expand far away from my natural to avoid having to deal with any kind of 1base push. If he does push i have the game won because i am miles ahead after the base trade.
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Has there been any analysis done into exactly how far FFE puts you ahead of, say, 1 Gate FE? Is the difference minimal?
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in PVP i like to immortal rush so i have a immortal at 6min when a 4 gate is incoming. At start I go + cause i kill all his stalkers, but then my opponent see my immortal they go zealot.
Question is, what should I do? go zealot myself and protect the immortal (I have 2-3 gates vs his 4 gates at that time) or go stalker and start kiting? Stalker seems best but with so many zealots its actually hard!
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PvP - Blink Stalker w/ Observer
I am learning that this build is a really fun and different way to play PvP. However, I havn't been able to find any pro guides on how to play it or any builds to use to pursue it. I've looked at some replays, but it's hard to find the exact kinda game I"m looking for.
So--- 90% of PvP, if not a 4gate, ends up robo imo. This initially made me think blink stalkers are kind of stupid because the opponent will just load up on immortals, which will eventually liquify my blink stalkers. Then I realize (correct me if I am wrong), that blink stalkers are best used like Mutalisks....be weary of engaging your enemy army until you are at a critical mass. Until then, do not allow the opponent to leave their base through the threat of devestating harassment, while you expand and out macro your opponent.
So---- is this the theory of blink stlaker play? Or do you just use it to transition to archons or DTs or something? What is the "game plan" of PvP blink stalker?
Builds--- what is a popular blink stalker build? I've seen 3 gate, twighlight robo--- 4gate twighlight robo (this seems somewhat safe againt 4gate, if you can negate the risk of a 4gate by having an economical one yourself, then transitino out?). Any ideas?
How can you get a twilight council, blink, AND a robo just for an observer AND survive early pressure?? It seems so expensive to get there...
Any tips, builds, strategies, advice on PvP blink stalker would be greatly appreciated.
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On January 13 2012 21:16 MooSlapper wrote:
PvP - Blink Stalker w/ Observer
I am learning that this build is a really fun and different way to play PvP. However, I havn't been able to find any pro guides on how to play it or any builds to use to pursue it. I've looked at some replays, but it's hard to find the exact kinda game I"m looking for.
So--- 90% of PvP, if not a 4gate, ends up robo imo. This initially made me think blink stalkers are kind of stupid because the opponent will just load up on immortals, which will eventually liquify my blink stalkers. Then I realize (correct me if I am wrong), that blink stalkers are best used like Mutalisks....be weary of engaging your enemy army until you are at a critical mass. Until then, do not allow the opponent to leave their base through the threat of devestating harassment, while you expand and out macro your opponent.
So---- is this the theory of blink stlaker play? Or do you just use it to transition to archons or DTs or something? What is the "game plan" of PvP blink stalker?
Builds--- what is a popular blink stalker build? I've seen 3 gate, twighlight robo--- 4gate twighlight robo (this seems somewhat safe againt 4gate, if you can negate the risk of a 4gate by having an economical one yourself, then transitino out?). Any ideas?
How can you get a twilight council, blink, AND a robo just for an observer AND survive early pressure?? It seems so expensive to get there...
Any tips, builds, strategies, advice on PvP blink stalker would be greatly appreciated.
Have you read this thread regarding Blink + obs ?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=249772
There are a ton of threads in the recommended threads section with good openings in PvP. Most recently alej posted this
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=302117
If you want pure blink openings that are not safe at all, you can do a 1 gate Twilight with no sentries , into double gate at 30 food and chronoboosted Blink reasearch. I think it is the standard way to play greedy blink all-in or blink expand.
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pvp
i open 3 gate robo,he 4g. I FF ramp and he gave up 4g.My obs saw his robo and expo and 1 immortal,no robo bay yet.
1) Should i expo and play colossus war with him or try blink micro??
2) Assuming i go expo ,should i get 1 immortal to play extra safe or just rush colossus
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On January 13 2012 09:58 Alejandrisha wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 07:38 Eladen wrote:On January 13 2012 06:40 Alejandrisha wrote:On January 13 2012 01:25 Eladen wrote:
how do you scout for proxy gates on Arid plateau or what is the name of the map? It feels like there is so much viable proxy spots, that i would have to check half the map to be sure in your base, past the grass in your nat and you can even peak up the ramp that goes to your 3rd, but i don't think that's a very good spot. then go thru the far path of the two that go from your natural to scout thanks, but why do you think my 3rd isnt good spot, it seems pretty close to me. Or is there a reason i am missing? the 3rd is pretty far from your main, so you can hold it reasonably simply by scouting his base and seeing there is nothing there and reacting from there. proxy rushes closer to your ramp or in your base are much more dangerous because his window of having more zealots in the actual fight is much larger. this is why such proxies need to be scouted preemptively as opposed to reactionarily (is that a word?). i don't play the map so much, so i could be wrong here. the scout distance between the mains might be so great that you wouldn't know about it until you have committed probes to a sizable amount of gas, so you might want to err on the safe side and just poke up your 3rd ramp. proxies in the actual 3rd mins or hidden deep in the third should be far enough from you ramp to deal with reactionarily (again..?).
sounds reasonable, i'll take your word for it. Thanks 
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Seems I can handle when zergs go muta ling. However I am still lost when they go roach mutas. Every time I vs this I just stuggle and lose. Maybe my apm and control is just too low to deal with this composition. I just don't see how you get the right things out to kill this.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/55611431/pvzroachmuta.SC2Replay
I have read guides. Saying you need to go archon and storm and mutas but I am just so lost.
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On January 14 2012 00:33 justiceknight wrote:
pvp
i open 3 gate robo,he 4g. I FF ramp and he gave up 4g.My obs saw his robo and expo and 1 immortal,no robo bay yet.
1) Should i expo and play colossus war with him or try blink micro??
2) Assuming i go expo ,should i get 1 immortal to play extra safe or just rush colossus
1) This depends on your style and the game. Do you think you can deal a good amount of damage? Do it. And if he's playing it safe you can do that too while having a superior economy as you didn't invest in a 4gate and cut probes.
2) Is he making a lot of probes and trying to get his eco up? Then you are safe and can probably tech to colossus without delay. You might want to get one or more immortals if he's going to get aggressive though. Count his stalkers as well, it would be a waste if he only has a few and you make immortals.
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Oops, replied to an old post.
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Gold level PvP question:
Lately, both my opponents and I have been opening with safe robo builds which eventually lead to colossi wars. Is there any way to avoid this? Assuming we both expand at roughly the same time, do I have to mirror him? Is stargate or twilight tech viable at this point or is it too late to go that route?
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I have no idea whats happened. but it seems like i cannot hold off a 1/1/1 push anymore. Occasionally I'll defend but it tends to be when terran has made executional mistakes. I would say I win approximately 15-20% of games where I get 1/1/1/ed which is pretty damn low. I tend to go for a usual 1 gate fe into 2 more gates and a robo. I get about 32 probes, 10 on my natural, 16 on my main and 6 for my main gases.
My base line defense is a few immortals 4 stalkers, 2 sentries and zealot heavy with me getting more stalkers depending on how many banshees I scout or see. What i'm struggling with the most is with banshees, I tend to patrol 2 stalkers at my main and natural but no matter what I do it seems as if the banshees get a few kills allowing terran to finish me off when they push. So, it's not necessarily the actual push I have a question about, but how do you deal with banshees when they harass from one side and then group up 2 banshees (after the initial harass with 1) and then attack either the main or natural. The main problem I find is cloak, as it pretty much requires 3 observers just to get a scout off on the terran base. (I've lost many games where my first obs is placed in the middle and because of the obs being slow, I lose too many probes).
My thoughts so far are etc
1. First obs should not be in the middle of my main and nat but instead at the closer location to banshee harass while having the watchtower and chronoing a second obs for the far away banshee harass location. (example of this would be close air shattered temple, putting your first obs at the main and chronoing a second for the natural.)
2. only 4 stalkers is skimping a bit on the stalkers? maybe try and go 6 before going zealot heavy.
3. I tend to stay with 3 gates, maybe after my first immortal I should be on 4 gates and more gateway heavy?
4. Im adding a few control groups that are beside 1,2,3 on the keyboard so I have more for my army. I don't
typically use 8 or 9 on my keyboard anyhow, so a group where i have 1 immo 1 sentry 5 zealots for a flank when
the actual push comes.
5. Im too adament on defending my natural expansion where as if I backed up into my main the extra few warpins
might give me that unit count I need to defend.
Sadly, I prepare for all these things and the last 1/1/1 i play is an 8 marine drop with hellions at the other side.
I just feel lost in what im doing wrong against the 1/1/1.
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On January 15 2012 02:29 awwnuts07 wrote:
Gold level PvP question:
Lately, both my opponents and I have been opening with safe robo builds which eventually lead to colossi wars. Is there any way to avoid this? Assuming we both expand at roughly the same time, do I have to mirror him? Is stargate or twilight tech viable at this point or is it too late to go that route?
twilight tech is still viable after both players are on colossus. nothing kills archons very quickly, so if you can get a few archons to buffer shots and help speed up the clearing of his zealot buffer, you're doing yourself a favor. remember to cb out probes and add your 3rd and 4th gases quickly if you are both expanding. it's very typical in pvp for one player to have a slight probe lead when both of them transition to expand because one of them cut probes early and another did not.
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On January 15 2012 04:46 Alejandrisha wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2012 02:29 awwnuts07 wrote:
Gold level PvP question:
Lately, both my opponents and I have been opening with safe robo builds which eventually lead to colossi wars. Is there any way to avoid this? Assuming we both expand at roughly the same time, do I have to mirror him? Is stargate or twilight tech viable at this point or is it too late to go that route? twilight tech is still viable after both players are on colossus. nothing kills archons very quickly, so if you can get a few archons to buffer shots and help speed up the clearing of his zealot buffer, you're doing yourself a favor. remember to cb out probes and add your 3rd and 4th gases quickly if you are both expanding. it's very typical in pvp for one player to have a slight probe lead when both of them transition to expand because one of them cut probes early and another did not.
Thanks for the answer, Alej. One more for you. Is it possible to avoid colossi altogether? For instance, we both expand, he starts his colossi production while I go for Stargate to get phoenixes or Templar tech. Does his army outright kill mine if I don't have colossi?
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On January 15 2012 05:38 awwnuts07 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2012 04:46 Alejandrisha wrote:On January 15 2012 02:29 awwnuts07 wrote:
Gold level PvP question:
Lately, both my opponents and I have been opening with safe robo builds which eventually lead to colossi wars. Is there any way to avoid this? Assuming we both expand at roughly the same time, do I have to mirror him? Is stargate or twilight tech viable at this point or is it too late to go that route? twilight tech is still viable after both players are on colossus. nothing kills archons very quickly, so if you can get a few archons to buffer shots and help speed up the clearing of his zealot buffer, you're doing yourself a favor. remember to cb out probes and add your 3rd and 4th gases quickly if you are both expanding. it's very typical in pvp for one player to have a slight probe lead when both of them transition to expand because one of them cut probes early and another did not. Thanks for the answer, Alej. One more for you. Is it possible to avoid colossi altogether? For instance, we both expand, he starts his colossi production while I go for Stargate or Templar tech.
not really.. nothing else is supply efficient or cost efficient against toss as colo in mid-late game. it's true they need a buffer, but they're really unavoidable in a 'macro' game unless you get really far ahead and it doesn't matter where you engage or your opponent is doing something weird like double sg void. templar tech for charge/blink/archons is good in the open field, but if he gets his colossus in good spots and in good number, the front-end damage coupled with their range becomes extremely strong if you're not doing a similar amount of damage to his buffer. your units are going to melt faster than his on the front line
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EPT
