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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. |
Why I like 1gate stargate on metalopolis: (and why you should too)
~ Shuts down roach all-ins
~ Allows you to get a decently quick expo while maintaining map control
~ denies their third (because they're so far from the natural, queens take too long
~ gets you a nice amount of sentries and a nice +1
~ allows you to scout, kill stray ovies, deny creep
~ gets a quick observer too, so you can see when they push
~ high sentry count means you can defend any kind of roach/hydra push with minimal losses until colossi
~ don't really have to worry about BLs! :D
General flow:
Gateway, core, zealot, stalker. <- looks like a four-gate a lot of players I go up against prepare for a four-gate (puts them behind)
If they make 2 lings I like to push out with my zealot and stalker, with a probe on HOLD to keep them from scouting. If they make 4, I'll keep my zealot on hold, and push my stalker out to the Xel'naga or up to their natural to check spines/unit count. 6+, just stay home.)
Should have your second gas as you put down your core, then start your stargate, preferably furthest away from zerg spawn.
Second gateway, chrono WG twice, then as stargate finishes, chrono out 2 VRs. (I like 2 VRs jsut because you can deny their third a lot easier, but you can opt for a phoenix for better scouting)
As you're ovie hunting and checking possible thirds, throw down a nexus and forge semi-wall at your natural. Warp in 2 sentries. Then you'll want another 2 after that then zealots or stalkers depending on if they go ling heavy or roach heavy.
*Note, keep your VRs ALIVE. You're not trying to win here. Pick of what you can. You should be able to deny the third until they get hydras if you scout vigilantly enough. Just keep going back from their regular third and the gold, or keep a probe on the tower.
Get +1, get a robo, and you should be at a point where zerg is two basing and going to all-in with roach hydra in which case you can FF him forever and win with an immortal, stalkers and sentries
OR
he's going for a late third after he kills your VRs or secures it, and you can take a third yourself.
OR he's getting mutas. You should be able to scout this with your obs in time, or take enough hints from your initial VR poke.
I get a twilight down after my robo anyway, so blink should be easy, and you also have a forge for 2-3 cannons in your mineral lines. ^^ You'll lose your VRs most likely, but he won't be able to secure a third.
Keep up your upgrades, generally push with 2 colossi and +2.
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What is a good response off of a FFE to a zerg that takes an extremely fast third, like only 5 or 10 seconds after their first expand. I have been trying to do a +1 zealot void ray timing attack, but so far iv had little success because the zerg always finds my probes out on the map before i can get a forward pylon down in a decent position. I feel like i have to kill the third or go all in with mass gateways.
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On January 10 2012 08:15 Smat wrote:
What is a good response off of a FFE to a zerg that takes an extremely fast third, like only 5 or 10 seconds after their first expand. I have been trying to do a +1 zealot void ray timing attack, but so far iv had little success because the zerg always finds my probes out on the map before i can get a forward pylon down in a decent position. I feel like i have to kill the third or go all in with mass gateways.
Go for a standard +1, 4gate zealot hatch snipe.
What map are you having trouble getting pylons down on?
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On January 10 2012 08:17 mizU wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 08:15 Smat wrote:
What is a good response off of a FFE to a zerg that takes an extremely fast third, like only 5 or 10 seconds after their first expand. I have been trying to do a +1 zealot void ray timing attack, but so far iv had little success because the zerg always finds my probes out on the map before i can get a forward pylon down in a decent position. I feel like i have to kill the third or go all in with mass gateways. Go for a standard +1, 4gate zealot hatch snipe. What map are you having trouble getting pylons down on?
Uh iv been mainly playing dual sight and daybreak vs this zerg. I think its possible for me to get a pylon down on his side of the map, but i feel like if i cant get it down im super far behind.
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On January 10 2012 08:32 Smat wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 08:17 mizU wrote:On January 10 2012 08:15 Smat wrote:
What is a good response off of a FFE to a zerg that takes an extremely fast third, like only 5 or 10 seconds after their first expand. I have been trying to do a +1 zealot void ray timing attack, but so far iv had little success because the zerg always finds my probes out on the map before i can get a forward pylon down in a decent position. I feel like i have to kill the third or go all in with mass gateways. Go for a standard +1, 4gate zealot hatch snipe. What map are you having trouble getting pylons down on? Uh iv been mainly playing dual sight and daybreak vs this zerg. I think its possible for me to get a pylon down on his side of the map, but i feel like if i cant get it down im super far behind.
If you can't deny the third you will be behind. So, if that's your objective, your sole objective, send multiple probes.
I like to send my probe out with a zealot or two so they don't get sniped. Send it out with a zealot to the xel naga, then you can plant it freely.
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On January 10 2012 09:26 mizU wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 08:32 Smat wrote:On January 10 2012 08:17 mizU wrote:On January 10 2012 08:15 Smat wrote:
What is a good response off of a FFE to a zerg that takes an extremely fast third, like only 5 or 10 seconds after their first expand. I have been trying to do a +1 zealot void ray timing attack, but so far iv had little success because the zerg always finds my probes out on the map before i can get a forward pylon down in a decent position. I feel like i have to kill the third or go all in with mass gateways. Go for a standard +1, 4gate zealot hatch snipe. What map are you having trouble getting pylons down on? Uh iv been mainly playing dual sight and daybreak vs this zerg. I think its possible for me to get a pylon down on his side of the map, but i feel like if i cant get it down im super far behind. If you can't deny the third you will be behind. So, if that's your objective, your sole objective, send multiple probes. I like to send my probe out with a zealot or two so they don't get sniped. Send it out with a zealot to the xel naga, then you can plant it freely.
Ha thats such a good idea, ill try it thanks.
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On January 10 2012 04:26 NrGmonk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 04:23 aZealot wrote:On January 09 2012 20:59 NrGmonk wrote:On January 09 2012 20:55 habermas wrote:
PvT. I'm looking for some hints on how to deal with Terran gasless expand. My preferred build in PvT is a 2 or 3 gate robo (gate, robo, gate, [gate]). As long as Terran takes gas I feel pretty confident and can react to most things that may come. However if I scout no gas I'm not so sure what to do. I don't really want to rely on 1 base all-in (immortals or 4 gate warp prism), but if I just play standard and drop my expo around 6 minutes mark, I feel like I'm getting behind.
Given I'd like to stick to fast robo opening what is the best thing to do if I scout no gas?
- abandon build and drop nexus asap (cut probes? follow-up?)
- cut units and fast tech to colossus?
- double forge?
- double expand?
I'd appreciate master/gm players input. Thanks in advance. Going 2-3 gate robo already puts you slightly behind versus 1 rax gas expand. Even going a standard 1 gate expand puts you behind gasless expand. Going 2-3 gate robo puts you very behind versus gasless expand. Thus, I highly recommend you do a different build versus gasless expand. The standard responses versus a gasless expand are either a gateway no core expand or a greedy variation of a gateway/core expand. Is it possible to 3 Gate/Robo bust or 4 Gate bust this (on the fly) if you think you have scouted it right? I tried a 3 Gate recently against this on Shakuras but was late and sloppy on my execution and was easily repulsed by 3 bunkers on the natural ramp (bunkers on Shakuras in that position make Terran very safe, IMO). I was wondering however, if it was still a viable strat if I did it better. Or is it simply better to take the Terran's cue and go into Macro mode yourself? Thanks. That will only work if your opponent makes a big mistake.
Thanks, yeah, it seemed like it would not really work. It was the first time I had tried it too (I usually like macro games).
Is there nothing that a Protoss can do then to punish a Terran going for a one rax gasless expand?
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Canada13414 Posts
On January 10 2012 09:31 aZealot wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 04:26 NrGmonk wrote:On January 10 2012 04:23 aZealot wrote:On January 09 2012 20:59 NrGmonk wrote:On January 09 2012 20:55 habermas wrote:
PvT. I'm looking for some hints on how to deal with Terran gasless expand. My preferred build in PvT is a 2 or 3 gate robo (gate, robo, gate, [gate]). As long as Terran takes gas I feel pretty confident and can react to most things that may come. However if I scout no gas I'm not so sure what to do. I don't really want to rely on 1 base all-in (immortals or 4 gate warp prism), but if I just play standard and drop my expo around 6 minutes mark, I feel like I'm getting behind.
Given I'd like to stick to fast robo opening what is the best thing to do if I scout no gas?
- abandon build and drop nexus asap (cut probes? follow-up?)
- cut units and fast tech to colossus?
- double forge?
- double expand?
I'd appreciate master/gm players input. Thanks in advance. Going 2-3 gate robo already puts you slightly behind versus 1 rax gas expand. Even going a standard 1 gate expand puts you behind gasless expand. Going 2-3 gate robo puts you very behind versus gasless expand. Thus, I highly recommend you do a different build versus gasless expand. The standard responses versus a gasless expand are either a gateway no core expand or a greedy variation of a gateway/core expand. Is it possible to 3 Gate/Robo bust or 4 Gate bust this (on the fly) if you think you have scouted it right? I tried a 3 Gate recently against this on Shakuras but was late and sloppy on my execution and was easily repulsed by 3 bunkers on the natural ramp (bunkers on Shakuras in that position make Terran very safe, IMO). I was wondering however, if it was still a viable strat if I did it better. Or is it simply better to take the Terran's cue and go into Macro mode yourself? Thanks. That will only work if your opponent makes a big mistake. Thanks, yeah, it seemed like it would not really work. It was the first time I had tried it too (I usually like macro games). Is there nothing that a Protoss can do then to punish a Terran going for a one rax gasless expand?
Well if you might as well send your first zealot and stalker just in case they get greedy and they don't make a bunker. This is of course if you go gate-core into zealot stalker instead of going gate - nexus - core as monk suggested.
Its not like it is guaranteed to do damage, but then again its not important to punish an expo from terran. You can expo yourself and play the macro game. While its a little behind their eco if you engage properly and safely you can still win the game. Gasless expand vs 1 gate expand isn't the worst scenario for the average player since below a highish level, opportunities for mistakes can occur on both sides levelling out the playing field between the way the build work.
Remember, monk is speaking in perfects, which while important to keep in mind aren't so important to become fixated on them. Its the kind of behind that can be overcome with better play over the opponent, not the kind of behind wherein you don't have detection and they get cloak banshees  Its more important to focus on improving your play as opposed to worrying about punishing a relatively safe expansion.
If you want a build that is supposed to punish gasless expands, I believe blink builds are really good at it but they are very very all in.
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Yeah, I was just curious as I usually prefer macro games myself and teching to upgraded Gateway + Colossus based armies off 3 bases.  It was more because my usual opening is 2 Gate Expo vs T but I'll skip the second gate from now on if I see this opening.
Thanks, mate.
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On January 10 2012 09:31 aZealot wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 04:26 NrGmonk wrote:On January 10 2012 04:23 aZealot wrote:On January 09 2012 20:59 NrGmonk wrote:On January 09 2012 20:55 habermas wrote:
PvT. I'm looking for some hints on how to deal with Terran gasless expand. My preferred build in PvT is a 2 or 3 gate robo (gate, robo, gate, [gate]). As long as Terran takes gas I feel pretty confident and can react to most things that may come. However if I scout no gas I'm not so sure what to do. I don't really want to rely on 1 base all-in (immortals or 4 gate warp prism), but if I just play standard and drop my expo around 6 minutes mark, I feel like I'm getting behind.
Given I'd like to stick to fast robo opening what is the best thing to do if I scout no gas?
- abandon build and drop nexus asap (cut probes? follow-up?)
- cut units and fast tech to colossus?
- double forge?
- double expand?
I'd appreciate master/gm players input. Thanks in advance. Going 2-3 gate robo already puts you slightly behind versus 1 rax gas expand. Even going a standard 1 gate expand puts you behind gasless expand. Going 2-3 gate robo puts you very behind versus gasless expand. Thus, I highly recommend you do a different build versus gasless expand. The standard responses versus a gasless expand are either a gateway no core expand or a greedy variation of a gateway/core expand. Is it possible to 3 Gate/Robo bust or 4 Gate bust this (on the fly) if you think you have scouted it right? I tried a 3 Gate recently against this on Shakuras but was late and sloppy on my execution and was easily repulsed by 3 bunkers on the natural ramp (bunkers on Shakuras in that position make Terran very safe, IMO). I was wondering however, if it was still a viable strat if I did it better. Or is it simply better to take the Terran's cue and go into Macro mode yourself? Thanks. That will only work if your opponent makes a big mistake. Thanks, yeah, it seemed like it would not really work. It was the first time I had tried it too (I usually like macro games). Is there nothing that a Protoss can do then to punish a Terran going for a one rax gasless expand?
You should open 1gate FE against Terran so that it mostly nullifies the advantage he has on such an early expand. He will be up temporarily because of mules but your probe production will still be ahead. When I see gasless expand I get my robo at about 32 food. I open stalker sentry sentry nexus at 30 if nothing threatens, so when I see gasless expand I get robo and then warp-prism for the 3sentry 1zeal drop. It's pretty harsh and you basically only have to kill about 4-6 scvs to take his macro advantage away from him.
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Canada13414 Posts
On January 10 2012 09:52 aZealot wrote:Yeah, I was just curious as I usually prefer macro games myself and teching to upgraded Gateway + Colossus based armies off 3 bases. It was more because my usual opening is 2 Gate Expo vs T but I'll skip the second gate from now on if I see this opening. Thanks, mate.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=294136
I use monk's guide to the MC 1 gate FE, which if executed well gets you a nexus safely against most builds.
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On January 10 2012 10:01 tehemperorer wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 09:31 aZealot wrote:On January 10 2012 04:26 NrGmonk wrote:On January 10 2012 04:23 aZealot wrote:On January 09 2012 20:59 NrGmonk wrote:On January 09 2012 20:55 habermas wrote:
PvT. I'm looking for some hints on how to deal with Terran gasless expand. My preferred build in PvT is a 2 or 3 gate robo (gate, robo, gate, [gate]). As long as Terran takes gas I feel pretty confident and can react to most things that may come. However if I scout no gas I'm not so sure what to do. I don't really want to rely on 1 base all-in (immortals or 4 gate warp prism), but if I just play standard and drop my expo around 6 minutes mark, I feel like I'm getting behind.
Given I'd like to stick to fast robo opening what is the best thing to do if I scout no gas?
- abandon build and drop nexus asap (cut probes? follow-up?)
- cut units and fast tech to colossus?
- double forge?
- double expand?
I'd appreciate master/gm players input. Thanks in advance. Going 2-3 gate robo already puts you slightly behind versus 1 rax gas expand. Even going a standard 1 gate expand puts you behind gasless expand. Going 2-3 gate robo puts you very behind versus gasless expand. Thus, I highly recommend you do a different build versus gasless expand. The standard responses versus a gasless expand are either a gateway no core expand or a greedy variation of a gateway/core expand. Is it possible to 3 Gate/Robo bust or 4 Gate bust this (on the fly) if you think you have scouted it right? I tried a 3 Gate recently against this on Shakuras but was late and sloppy on my execution and was easily repulsed by 3 bunkers on the natural ramp (bunkers on Shakuras in that position make Terran very safe, IMO). I was wondering however, if it was still a viable strat if I did it better. Or is it simply better to take the Terran's cue and go into Macro mode yourself? Thanks. That will only work if your opponent makes a big mistake. Thanks, yeah, it seemed like it would not really work. It was the first time I had tried it too (I usually like macro games). Is there nothing that a Protoss can do then to punish a Terran going for a one rax gasless expand? You should open 1gate FE against Terran so that it mostly nullifies the advantage he has on such an early expand. He will be up temporarily because of mules but your probe production will still be ahead. When I see gasless expand I get my robo at about 32 food. I open stalker sentry sentry nexus at 30 if nothing threatens, so when I see gasless expand I get robo and then warp-prism for the 3sentry 1zeal drop. It's pretty harsh and you basically only have to kill about 4-6 scvs to take his macro advantage away from him.
I like doing warp prism like the above with a bit of variation.
I usually drop in 4 zealots then warp in 4 more and try to snipe the tech lab researching stim. It buys you SO much time.
If I can't find the tech lab, I can usually kill 5-10 scvs, sometimes more if he's greedy.
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On January 10 2012 10:07 mizU wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 10:01 tehemperorer wrote:On January 10 2012 09:31 aZealot wrote:On January 10 2012 04:26 NrGmonk wrote:On January 10 2012 04:23 aZealot wrote:On January 09 2012 20:59 NrGmonk wrote:On January 09 2012 20:55 habermas wrote:
PvT. I'm looking for some hints on how to deal with Terran gasless expand. My preferred build in PvT is a 2 or 3 gate robo (gate, robo, gate, [gate]). As long as Terran takes gas I feel pretty confident and can react to most things that may come. However if I scout no gas I'm not so sure what to do. I don't really want to rely on 1 base all-in (immortals or 4 gate warp prism), but if I just play standard and drop my expo around 6 minutes mark, I feel like I'm getting behind.
Given I'd like to stick to fast robo opening what is the best thing to do if I scout no gas?
- abandon build and drop nexus asap (cut probes? follow-up?)
- cut units and fast tech to colossus?
- double forge?
- double expand?
I'd appreciate master/gm players input. Thanks in advance. Going 2-3 gate robo already puts you slightly behind versus 1 rax gas expand. Even going a standard 1 gate expand puts you behind gasless expand. Going 2-3 gate robo puts you very behind versus gasless expand. Thus, I highly recommend you do a different build versus gasless expand. The standard responses versus a gasless expand are either a gateway no core expand or a greedy variation of a gateway/core expand. Is it possible to 3 Gate/Robo bust or 4 Gate bust this (on the fly) if you think you have scouted it right? I tried a 3 Gate recently against this on Shakuras but was late and sloppy on my execution and was easily repulsed by 3 bunkers on the natural ramp (bunkers on Shakuras in that position make Terran very safe, IMO). I was wondering however, if it was still a viable strat if I did it better. Or is it simply better to take the Terran's cue and go into Macro mode yourself? Thanks. That will only work if your opponent makes a big mistake. Thanks, yeah, it seemed like it would not really work. It was the first time I had tried it too (I usually like macro games). Is there nothing that a Protoss can do then to punish a Terran going for a one rax gasless expand? You should open 1gate FE against Terran so that it mostly nullifies the advantage he has on such an early expand. He will be up temporarily because of mules but your probe production will still be ahead. When I see gasless expand I get my robo at about 32 food. I open stalker sentry sentry nexus at 30 if nothing threatens, so when I see gasless expand I get robo and then warp-prism for the 3sentry 1zeal drop. It's pretty harsh and you basically only have to kill about 4-6 scvs to take his macro advantage away from him. I like doing warp prism like the above with a bit of variation. I usually drop in 4 zealots then warp in 4 more and try to snipe the tech lab researching stim. It buys you SO much time. If I can't find the tech lab, I can usually kill 5-10 scvs, sometimes more if he's greedy.
Sounds like a big investment, what do you think? Also, what if he just runs his scvs?
That's crazy though man, sniping the tech lab... damn
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I usually get the tech lab and some scvs. What you can do is drop the zealots on the scvs in the main, he'll run them then as you're chasing, you can morph some to kill the tech lab while your other 4 tank the marines and marauders coming up the ramp.
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What are the medivac timings for various Terran openers, such as 1 rax gasless FE, 1 rax tech lab FE, 3 rax FE, Terran on 1 base etc.
I have the same question for banshees.
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On January 10 2012 14:44 WestonM wrote:
What are the medivac timings for various Terran openers, such as 1 rax gasless FE, 1 rax tech lab FE, 3 rax FE, Terran on 1 base etc.
I have the same question for banshees.
Medivac timings completely depend on a ton of things. Terran players don't do set medivac timings with each build, it's very variable.
There's a timing guide if you search "timings" with basic timings and stuff, it has banshees.
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quite a lengthy response needed here
ok so i was a top diamond player about 3 months ago, close to playing master players. I then got computer and internet issues and only jusy did my new placement games 2 days ago. I won 4/5 of them (stupid fucking korean 4 gate -_-) and got into platinum. From then i won 4 in a row easily and then lost the next 2, but i was playing mostly diamonds. So im still finding it a bit hard to get back into it, especially against zerg. I always struggled against zerg but the metagame seems to have shifted so much.
Can anyone give me some tips on the MU as a whole? The meta game seems to favour a FFE or nexus first on alot of maps, but i seem to be facing alot of cheese so dont wanna risk it yet. Plus my mechanics are off atm so wouldnt execute it very well, and the 3gate expand just seems outdated and easily countered on maps like shattered.
So what kind of openings should i be doing against zergs on which map? i dunno if i should just be doing some 2 base all in to get myself back up to where i was and then when i start playing people who know what they're doing more and stuff and then i can be getting the timings nailed down and what
i just feel really lost atm in PvZ -_-
anyhelp from any league is fine atm
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I don't do FFE but from what I've seen and read you should be able to hold off cheese with an FFE given good scouting. If you still don't want to do it yet, then variations of Gate openings are still viable. If not the old 3 Gate sentry expo then 1-2 Gate expo or Gate-Stargate variations might be worth trying. Some of the more knowledgeable posters should be able to give you more detailed info on these builds and what to do when executing them (alternatively, a search in TL might bring them up too; or you could scroll through the pages of this thread as there is info on all of these scattered about.)
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On January 10 2012 22:34 ThatGuy89 wrote:quite a lengthy response needed here ok so i was a top diamond player about 3 months ago, close to playing master players. I then got computer and internet issues and only jusy did my new placement games 2 days ago. I won 4/5 of them (stupid fucking korean 4 gate -_-) and got into platinum. From then i won 4 in a row easily and then lost the next 2, but i was playing mostly diamonds. So im still finding it a bit hard to get back into it, especially against zerg. I always struggled against zerg but the metagame seems to have shifted so much. Can anyone give me some tips on the MU as a whole? The meta game seems to favour a FFE or nexus first on alot of maps, but i seem to be facing alot of cheese so dont wanna risk it yet. Plus my mechanics are off atm so wouldnt execute it very well, and the 3gate expand just seems outdated and easily countered on maps like shattered. So what kind of openings should i be doing against zergs on which map? i dunno if i should just be doing some 2 base all in to get myself back up to where i was and then when i start playing people who know what they're doing more and stuff and then i can be getting the timings nailed down and what i just feel really lost atm in PvZ -_- anyhelp from any league is fine atm
I'm a toss player that hates doing 3-gate expo. It seems way to fragile.
I open 1-gate stargate on maps that I can't FFE on. (metal, shattered)
If you're 9 scouting you should be able to determine whether or not you can forge first or nexus first.
General gameflow off of a FFE should be you killing his third with some form of gateway timings (with no more than 5 gates and +1), then going into colossi and pushing with +2 and a decent sentry count. Obviously this changes a bit if they go mutas.
Things to remember: GET YOUR UPGRADES. Attack first. +2 and +3 does AMAZINGLY especially when you CB the shit out of it and zerg attacks with 2-1 or 1-1 and you have 3-0 or 3-1.
Double robo colossus production... seems imba to me. You can get immortals, colossi, and even WPs really quickly. Play defensively until you hit the 4-6 colossi count. BLs are less of a problem with good upgrades, blink stlakers and a solid colossi count.
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On January 11 2012 08:09 mizU wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 22:34 ThatGuy89 wrote:quite a lengthy response needed here ok so i was a top diamond player about 3 months ago, close to playing master players. I then got computer and internet issues and only jusy did my new placement games 2 days ago. I won 4/5 of them (stupid fucking korean 4 gate -_-) and got into platinum. From then i won 4 in a row easily and then lost the next 2, but i was playing mostly diamonds. So im still finding it a bit hard to get back into it, especially against zerg. I always struggled against zerg but the metagame seems to have shifted so much. Can anyone give me some tips on the MU as a whole? The meta game seems to favour a FFE or nexus first on alot of maps, but i seem to be facing alot of cheese so dont wanna risk it yet. Plus my mechanics are off atm so wouldnt execute it very well, and the 3gate expand just seems outdated and easily countered on maps like shattered. So what kind of openings should i be doing against zergs on which map? i dunno if i should just be doing some 2 base all in to get myself back up to where i was and then when i start playing people who know what they're doing more and stuff and then i can be getting the timings nailed down and what i just feel really lost atm in PvZ -_- anyhelp from any league is fine atm I'm a toss player that hates doing 3-gate expo. It seems way to fragile. I open 1-gate stargate on maps that I can't FFE on. (metal, shattered) If you're 9 scouting you should be able to determine whether or not you can forge first or nexus first. General gameflow off of a FFE should be you killing his third with some form of gateway timings (with no more than 5 gates and +1), then going into colossi and pushing with +2 and a decent sentry count. Obviously this changes a bit if they go mutas. Things to remember: GET YOUR UPGRADES. Attack first. +2 and +3 does AMAZINGLY especially when you CB the shit out of it and zerg attacks with 2-1 or 1-1 and you have 3-0 or 3-1. Double robo colossus production... seems imba to me. You can get immortals, colossi, and even WPs really quickly. Play defensively until you hit the 4-6 colossi count. BLs are less of a problem with good upgrades, blink stlakers and a solid colossi count.
I agree with the above comment, but I find its always worth it to invest in a few void rays late game, especially if you already went 1 gate stargate or FFE into stargate. Also I think its worth investing in air weapon upgrades at this late in the game. That does serious damage to normally unupgraded brood lords.
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EPT
