EPTThe Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 12
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Huckle
United States27 Posts
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zagster11
18 Posts
On August 10 2011 05:09 galivet wrote: I have a question about hotkeys. Most typically I see that pro players group their units into hotkeys by unit-type. So for example a player might have zealots, sentries, and immortals on 1, collosus and stalkers on 2, and templar on 3. It seems like this hotkey set-up results in the balling-up of the army. In particular, templar all on the same hotkey group them up nicely for EMP. Why do good players not put a well-mixed "squad" of units on a hotkey? For example, each hotkey 1-3 controls an identical sub-army consisting of two collosus, two templar, 5 stalkers, 8 zealots, and two sentries. Use these hotkeys for army positioning. Then additionally put all the templar on hotkey 5 and all the sentries on hotkey 6 so that you can easily access them for spamming mass storms or mass forcefields. Is it just to many clicks? Maybe it's easier to achieve this kind of positioning-control through box-selecting? The reason for splitting up the army really in the first place is because when you have sentries and high templars and blink stalkers on the same hotkey, only one of those units can cast the spell. For example I believe the HT's reign supreme so if you have them all you can only storm and you can't forcefield unless you select all of the sentries manually or have a seperate hotkey. Same goes for blink stalkers, you can only blink them by manually clicking if you have another caster unit on the same hotkey. I like the idea of splitting up hts and such like that but I couldn't play with them all on the same hotkey like that. | ||
monk
United States8476 Posts
On August 10 2011 05:09 galivet wrote: I have a question about hotkeys. Most typically I see that pro players group their units into hotkeys by unit-type. So for example a player might have zealots, sentries, and immortals on 1, collosus and stalkers on 2, and templar on 3. It seems like this hotkey set-up results in the balling-up of the army. In particular, templar all on the same hotkey group them up nicely for EMP. Why do good players not put a well-mixed "squad" of units on a hotkey? For example, each hotkey 1-3 controls an identical sub-army consisting of two collosus, two templar, 5 stalkers, 8 zealots, and two sentries. Use these hotkeys for army positioning. Then additionally put all the templar on hotkey 5 and all the sentries on hotkey 6 so that you can easily access them for spamming mass storms or mass forcefields. Is it just to many clicks? Maybe it's easier to achieve this kind of positioning-control through box-selecting? You want to be able to control stalkers separately from your main army. With your hotkey setup, you can't be as mobile with blink stalkers. Also your suggestion of 6 army hotkey setups leaves very little room for building hotkeys. If you want to spread out units, you can just do it manually. It's just not worth it to specifically make hotkeys like what you're suggesting. | ||
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See.Blue
United States2673 Posts
On August 10 2011 05:30 4kmonk wrote: You want to be able to control stalkers separately from your main army. With your hotkey setup, you can't be as mobile with blink stalkers. Also your suggestion of 6 army hotkey setups leaves very little room for building hotkeys. If you want to spread out units, you can just do it manually. It's just not worth it to specifically make hotkeys like what you're suggesting. I'm trying to get used to using: Units 1: Zealots, Sentries, Immo, Collo 2. Blink Stalkers 3. HT 4. Phoenix (or voids if no phoenix) Econ 5. Nexii 6. Stargate 7. Forges 8. Robo Misc 9. Special #1 (obs, Warp Prism, DT hitsquad, VRs, Mothership) 0. Special #2 (obs, Warp Prism, DT hitsquad, VRs, Mothership) That way there's only 1 ability using unit per control group. You have 1-4 right handy for units, all your econ ones grouped, and 2 free-to-assign on the fly ones. | ||
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rsvp
United States2266 Posts
On August 10 2011 05:15 Huckle wrote: Are Colossus still viable against Terran and Zergling mass ground compositions? I only ask because I have been going heavy colossi and have been getting annihilated by zerg and terran mass ground armies with reactored vikings or corruptors to quickly kill the colossi. What is my best bet to still use colossi and keep them alive when they are hard countered by air units? Are they only good for midgame, whereas high templars become more effective late game? Do you need to push when you get extended thermal lances on 2 colossi so that your opponent cannot respond with air to shut down an attack? If you intend to use mass colossus in the late game you really need to supplement them with your own air units to defend them against vikings/corruptor. Void rays work best in PvZ, phoenix in PvT. Storm also helps a lot against viking/corruptor if you can afford it. | ||
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zagster11
18 Posts
On August 10 2011 06:50 See.Blue wrote: I'm trying to get used to using: Units 1: Zealots, Sentries, Immo, Collo 2. Blink Stalkers 3. HT 4. Phoenix (or voids if no phoenix) Econ 5. Nexii 6. Stargate 7. Forges 8. Robo Misc 9. Special #1 (obs, Warp Prism, DT hitsquad, VRs, Mothership) 0. Special #2 (obs, Warp Prism, DT hitsquad, VRs, Mothership) That way there's only 1 ability using unit per control group. You have 1-4 right handy for units, all your econ ones grouped, and 2 free-to-assign on the fly ones. How I use my hotkeys is like that but in a very weird and contorted way. I actually thought of making a thread about how I use mine because they are not standard in the least. Basically what I have is my econ buildings on 1-5, with my robo -1 stargate 2 nexus 3 and gates 4 I have my hotkeys for 5-0 actually set to q e r t and y with w being for warpgates. My main aremy is q, my sentries, are e and my temps are r. This sounds crazy but basically my setup allows me to never ever move my hand from hovering over the asdf keys. Every unit I make goes a-f. So I make a zealot with a, stalker with s, sentry with d etc etc. same goes with buildings, gateway s, cyber d, pylon f. What this kind of makes is a progressive hotkey system where the "more" advanced unit is farther down the line of asdf along with more "advanced" buildings. At first it was hell getting used to it, but I saw an instant 20+ apm increase with my hotkeys. The reason is because I literally never ever ever have to move my hands away from the left side of the keyboard and specifically the asdf buttons. Hopefully I didn't just bore everyone by going into waaaaay more detail then is should. Any questions you can hit me up. | ||
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IIIOmegaIII
Sweden319 Posts
On August 10 2011 05:15 Huckle wrote: Are Colossus still viable against Terran and Zergling mass ground compositions? I only ask because I have been going heavy colossi and have been getting annihilated by zerg and terran mass ground armies with reactored vikings or corruptors to quickly kill the colossi. What is my best bet to still use colossi and keep them alive when they are hard countered by air units? Are they only good for midgame, whereas high templars become more effective late game? Do you need to push when you get extended thermal lances on 2 colossi so that your opponent cannot respond with air to shut down an attack? u gotta try to not engage in open fields. u also need to make sure ur colosis arent standing in the front or else they will get sniped. generally colossi is an awesome unit to go for, but dont commit to hard on them since its easy to take em out with a few vikings/corruptors. keep looking for what hes going for. if hes skipping the anti air u can just mass them out and steamroll him =)) | ||
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IIIOmegaIII
Sweden319 Posts
On August 10 2011 02:49 rezzan wrote: how to survive/combat/win against earily attacks in PvP such as 4 gate / or cheeeesyyy all-ins ? zealot rushes, proxy gates. u scout his base, if u dont see any buildings u should get suspect and place a forge if u dont find anything. if its a 4g u can do a 4g urself. defensive 4g win over offensive. also u get a sentry out and deny the units from coming up the ramp and just wipe his warp ins. that will also hold a 4g and u will lie ahead aswell. | ||
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michaelhasanalias
Korea (South)1231 Posts
On August 10 2011 09:53 Severedevil wrote: What's the selling point of a ramp wall-in? Is there an important rush that's easier to defend if you wall at the ramp than if you build your initial two pylons, gateway, and core around the mineral line? This is from another thread, but I wanted to ask it here. I've been curious about this for a while... is it something that's just antiquated or grandfathered into standard protoss play even though it doesn't seem effective at anything? Why can't you just wall with your 2nd and 3rd gates? | ||
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Kluey
Canada1197 Posts
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xmikeyy17x
United States92 Posts
On August 10 2011 10:16 Kluey wrote: How do you break a terran contain or even a 1-1-1. The how to hold a 1-1-1 guide doesn't work if your opponent has even half decent micro. whenever you see you terran push, (via xel'naga towers) run back to your ramp and make sure you have sentries to cut his army on the ramp. make sure you have your zealots in the back so they don't get picked off. and hold off there. For PvP, What do most toss's do these days? 10 gate? 12? and what time should i be looking at for my warpgate research to finish? | ||
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bankai
362 Posts
Question - for Huk's 20 Food expand build, is it a safe build to open with on ALL ladder maps? Is it a good one to adapt as a "standard build" to learn off? My entire SC2 time has been learning the 2 gate robo opening but ppl are saying its too safe now. | ||
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Plutonik
Canada329 Posts
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StealinBikes
Canada7 Posts
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NoisyNinja
United States991 Posts
On August 10 2011 13:44 Plutonik wrote: i really need help with pvz, i am diamond and struggling with it pretty badly I'm only platinum, but I find that the 7 gate +2 attack blink stalkers build is very effective. I play random, and I don't know what counters blink stalkers as zerg | ||
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NoisyNinja
United States991 Posts
On August 10 2011 13:57 StealinBikes wrote: I'd like some PvT and PvZ help. I generally open both with a 3gate Stargate (sometimes differently if I scout builds like a fake 1rax expo or a 7 RR), but if my initial push fails I almost always lose. I get a quick void in PvT and a phoenix then void in PvZ. If my push fails I expand and get some colossus, upgraded gateway units and some voids. 3 Gate stargate is pretty all in, try to go for a more macro build. | ||
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Plutonik
Canada329 Posts
On August 10 2011 14:31 NoisyNinja wrote: I'm only platinum, but I find that the 7 gate +2 attack blink stalkers build is very effective. I play random, and I don't know what counters blink stalkers as zerg thanks man, ill try doing that, do you know what time it hits at or a link to the build order? and i think the counter to blink stalkers would be zerglings imo | ||
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StealinBikes
Canada7 Posts
On August 10 2011 14:38 NoisyNinja wrote: 3 Gate stargate is pretty all in, try to go for a more macro build. Got anything specific in mind? | ||
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Zarent
109 Posts
I normally open 3gate sentry expand and go into 6gate +2 / Blink stalker timing attack. More often than not I can kill his third as well as force spines at his natural. However, once infestors pop I can't maintain any amount of aggression, and eventually get rolled since mass infestors seems to be >>>>anything that toss can do on an equal number of bases. Lately, I've been taking my third moderately quickly and pumping out HT for dealing with the infestors. The issue is that the HT can't manage to reliably feedback all the infestors when the zerg attempts to attack, and thus is able to destroy my stalker-ball and the contain is broken, allowing him to not only keep his mass infestor but also re-take bases. I'm thinking about if adding in voids would make this build work better, but I'm truly at a loss. 4 recent games of PvZ have ended in this exact fashion, and I believe that it's the last main build that I need to be able to be able to deal with before breaking into masters. Obviously, yes, there are some minor to major macro problems but when I'm taking my third before him and force significant not-drones, I think that the problem is more to do with my mentality and mindset than that. Halp? | ||
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FederigoEU
Germany50 Posts
i saw HuK the other day responding to tha build with the exact same army compostion but he had still some blinkstalkers left from his blinkstalker push which kinda failed. Also you need to keep sure to spread your army but not to much because of the lings , it is kinda difficult and really strong and really hard to beat. | ||
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