EPTThe Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 105
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
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wrekkless
Canada87 Posts
What the hell are you supposed to do about this except turtle harder than them, and have an observer with your army at all times? *edit* will include a replay once I get it up. | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13431 Posts
On November 12 2011 00:55 wrekkless wrote: So recently I've encountered a lot of terran's going mass cloaked banshees off one base. They set up a bunch of turrets around their base so you can't get any scouting to see what they're actually doing. I'm sure it's probably somewhere else on the forums but I'm a bit pissed off at the last loss I had against this. What the hell are you supposed to do about this except turtle harder than them, and have an observer with your army at all times? *edit* will include a replay once I get it up. If they have mass turrets by the time your observed gets there you are doing a sub optimal build. Based on the fact its turret turtle Terran that's causing issues I will assume a lower level of play and suggest 2gate robot into expand as an opening. Check nRgMonks profile he has links there or use search on tl. I am typing on my phone so I can't quite link you. With this build executed well you should be able to get an observed into his base too see banshee tech. Make a 2nd observed and send the original to your Nat. Stalkers should suffice to defend initial economy harass. If he's going 2 port banshee put down a stargate and make pheonixes. Crazy huge mass mass banshee (3 starports) same thing make pheonixes though investing into observed speed if the Terran expos and goes crazy with banshees is good. Stupid autocorrect and mobile web page means spelling will be fixed when I can turn on my laptop in a wifi network sorry | ||
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Gladiator6
Sweden7024 Posts
I tried archon/colossus/stalker/chargelots several engagements we were 3/0/3 against 3/3 upgrades but still lost every time. Do I really need like HT for storm or something else? After every engagement he had very low health on all things but they just wouldnt die, I was also like 6 bases to 3 lol. | ||
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wrekkless
Canada87 Posts
My obs made it to his base before he had all the turrets up. He noticed it and scanned to kill it off, I waited a while before trying to scout again and by then he had turrets set up around his base. Guess I should have chronoed the obs out instead of a collossi. | ||
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Dujek
United Kingdom276 Posts
I scout at 9 and If I see no pool or gas I head to the natural and try to pylon block. If I see an early pool/gas I assume hes roach rushing, but lately it seams that whenever I think I've "scouted" it it never happens and I lose because I've prepared for the rush and he has expanded. My question is, is there an easy way to tell if a zerg is roach rushing. I could put a pylon down at his natural every game (both no pool and early pool) but a zerg with an early pool can take that out pylon without necessarily having to expand so I'm left in the dark. Mid and Late game I scout with hallucination, but that hits too late for me to prepare for roaches. Also, whats the advantage a zerg gets by going 14 pool 14 gas then expanding. It feels like the only reason is to keep me clueless >.< Thanks, I hope that made sense | ||
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
On November 12 2011 00:55 wrekkless wrote: So recently I've encountered a lot of terran's going mass cloaked banshees off one base. They set up a bunch of turrets around their base so you can't get any scouting to see what they're actually doing. I'm sure it's probably somewhere else on the forums but I'm a bit pissed off at the last loss I had against this. What the hell are you supposed to do about this except turtle harder than them, and have an observer with your army at all times? *edit* will include a replay once I get it up. Hey man, I've run across this too in my Gold league - I think it a low level strategy - and although I've beaten it, the first time was more by accident than anything else. IMO, I wouldn't turtle up if you scout mass turrets (and in my case, siege tanks/bunkers). I just expanded hard and although my zealot/stalker/colossus army was decimated by 28 cloaked banshees, I had 5 bases up and had cannoned up the middle of the map. I lost 3 bases but was able to get a SG down in time and pump out phoenix with speed upgraded observers and eventually wore him down. I also think in these cases, it may be worthwhile teching to hallucinate against Terran if you cant get an obs in their base. A fast hallu phoenix (or even a higher HP hallu scout sent in at a good angle) may tell you all you need to know. So yeah, don't turtle IMO against a turtling Terran. Take the map and poke around and make him show his hand. I'm only a Gold scrub though, but it did work for me. GL! | ||
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rsvp
United States2266 Posts
On November 12 2011 05:21 Dujek wrote: Hey, recently in PvZ The only time I've really been losing is when the zerg pushes early with roaches. I've been doing a 3 Gate expand build and haven't been able to hold off early roach aggression with it. I scout at 9 and If I see no pool or gas I head to the natural and try to pylon block. If I see an early pool/gas I assume hes roach rushing, but lately it seams that whenever I think I've "scouted" it it never happens and I lose because I've prepared for the rush and he has expanded. My question is, is there an easy way to tell if a zerg is roach rushing. I could put a pylon down at his natural every game (both no pool and early pool) but a zerg with an early pool can take that out pylon without necessarily having to expand so I'm left in the dark. Mid and Late game I scout with hallucination, but that hits too late for me to prepare for roaches. Also, whats the advantage a zerg gets by going 14 pool 14 gas then expanding. It feels like the only reason is to keep me clueless >.< Thanks, I hope that made sense It sounds like your question is how to scout the expo? Try hiding your scouting probe somewhere before lings hatch and checking back a bit later to see if there's an expo or not. | ||
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Dujek
United Kingdom276 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
On November 12 2011 06:08 Dujek wrote: thanks, I'll try that seams perfect The timing for a speedling expand is about 4.00 minutes. You should get suspicious of a roach rush if he hasn't expanded by about 4.30; in that case i personally like to throw down a stargate and do a super super safe void ray expand (or void ray allin if he suicides a bunch of roaches up my ramp). In diamond i face 1base roach allins really rarely, but for some reason it was the zerg go-to build when i was in lower leagues. | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On November 12 2011 02:21 eYeball wrote: What army composition do you want against marauder/ghost/viking/medivac? I tried archon/colossus/stalker/chargelots several engagements we were 3/0/3 against 3/3 upgrades but still lost every time. Do I really need like HT for storm or something else? After every engagement he had very low health on all things but they just wouldnt die, I was also like 6 bases to 3 lol. If it's lategame get like all units :p Colossus, HTs, archons, zealots, stalkers and sentries. Even so you will probably not be trading efficient against this army so make sure you have 10-15 gates or more to reinforce. | ||
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xlava
United States676 Posts
On November 12 2011 06:30 Latedi wrote: If it's lategame get like all units :p Colossus, HTs, archons, zealots, stalkers and sentries. Even so you will probably not be trading efficient against this army so make sure you have 10-15 gates or more to reinforce. @ eyeball: You're going to have to post a replay. Your question is incredibly general, and the army comp you described is 100% optimal, so you must have screwed up your micro/macro/positioning or something. Hts are good, but ghost emp forces archons anyway, so its null and void. | ||
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InvXXVII
Canada242 Posts
On November 12 2011 02:21 eYeball wrote: What army composition do you want against marauder/ghost/viking/medivac? I tried archon/colossus/stalker/chargelots several engagements we were 3/0/3 against 3/3 upgrades but still lost every time. Do I really need like HT for storm or something else? After every engagement he had very low health on all things but they just wouldnt die, I was also like 6 bases to 3 lol. Is there a reason why you went shield upgrade? Zealots need that armor upgrade to fight upgraded bio. But seriously, you need to upload a replay, because the composition you went is supposed to beat his. I'm thinking your composition was not the reason you lose. There might be some other reason. | ||
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Mikelius
Germany517 Posts
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monk
United States8477 Posts
On November 12 2011 10:15 Mikelius wrote: Quick question, who would you guys say has the best PvZ atm? I'm kinda lost in this match up and would like to study/copy a player who has a "stable" PvZ style with a good success rate. Currently I see most pro streamers getting mauled in the late game or being left at a very significant disadvantage in the mid game to either speedling or muta contains. JYP, Hero, and Sage have the most success vs zerg. | ||
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Mikelius
Germany517 Posts
On November 12 2011 10:29 NrGmonk wrote: JYP, Hero, and Sage have the most success vs zerg. D: Where can I land replays of these guys? | ||
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monk
United States8477 Posts
On November 12 2011 10:34 Mikelius wrote: D: Where can I land replays of these guys? You can't. They don't play in tournaments that release replays. JYP and Hero stream however. | ||
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Achilles306
Canada84 Posts
On November 12 2011 02:21 eYeball wrote: What army composition do you want against marauder/ghost/viking/medivac? I tried archon/colossus/stalker/chargelots several engagements we were 3/0/3 against 3/3 upgrades but still lost every time. Do I really need like HT for storm or something else? After every engagement he had very low health on all things but they just wouldnt die, I was also like 6 bases to 3 lol. I use phoenix instead of archons. So phoenix colossus stalker chargelot. The phoenix kill the vikings and medivacs so that your colossus live longer. The key is to have about the same or mroe phoenix than he has vikings and to blink your stalkers to the side so your charge lots can charge through. Ideally, he will EMP your stalkers and then you blink. Don't forget guardian shield and force fields. HT instead of archons also works, but if all your HT get EMP'd, you die. Try using the phoenix to pick up ghosts if he sends them ahead of his army. No EMP => easy win. The phoenix can also harass while not fighting, so that's another reason why I like them. If the vikings out number your phoenix 2-1 you are pretty dead. | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On November 12 2011 10:42 Achilles306 wrote: I use phoenix instead of archons. So phoenix colossus stalker chargelot. The phoenix kill the vikings and medivacs so that your colossus live longer. The key is to have about the same or mroe phoenix than he has vikings and to blink your stalkers to the side so your charge lots can charge through. Ideally, he will EMP your stalkers and then you blink. Don't forget guardian shield and force fields. HT instead of archons also works, but if all your HT get EMP'd, you die. Try using the phoenix to pick up ghosts if he sends them ahead of his army. No EMP => easy win. The phoenix can also harass while not fighting, so that's another reason why I like them. If the vikings out number your phoenix 2-1 you are pretty dead. Hmm so what happens if your colossi are focus fired by the vikings? Does the marine prio phoenixes and ground units the same? I have never tried this myself  | ||
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ypslala
Burma545 Posts
On November 12 2011 10:34 Mikelius wrote: D: Where can I land replays of these guys? if you want to to learn from a constant clean playing toss, playing with sense, regarding counter, timings, makro, scouting (all game long), positioning, mikro, i recommend hasuobs. for hardcore makro games, reinforcing like a zerg, keeping minerals low etc, he is one of the best to learn from imo. sounds like i fanboy, i know. this is just one of many examples of makro style versus zerg, but its a very nice one: and a good source for replays btw: hasu-lalush-shatteredtemple | ||
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