EPTThe Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 106
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Darclite
United States1021 Posts
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unit
United States2621 Posts
On November 12 2011 12:11 Darclite wrote: In PvP, if I'm opening gate/robo/gate, what are the proper transitions? As in, if I see them expand, do I add 1/2 gates and push with 2/3 immortals? If I see them go robo also, what do I do? If I see stargate, do I add a gate for extra stalkers or go straight for robo blink? When can I safely tech to colossi or expand? there are a lot of things you can do, if they expand its mostly how they do it, sometimes you can punish it other times its better to expand yourself, personally if they go robo expand i capitalize and kill them if they go 1-2 gate expand really early i just push and kill it depending on sentry count, the less they have the better because ff can buy them some serious time and do a lot of damage to you 3gate expand i just expand and am ahead due to tech, phoenix expand i just 4gate and win early on if they go robo as well a lot of who wins will deal with what you are doing other than robo, i like to throw down a forge and get upgrades (attack) to help give me the edge, teching to colossus or expanding as they do as for stargate, robo-blink is a great answer however if they go robo stargate i vastly prefer chargelot archon or matching their stargate so that i can match their phoenix count or at least come close enough to where he cant lift any key units as for the last question it is highly situational and really depends what your opponent is doing, colossus isnt always the answer PvP and expanding can be harshly punished if the opponent opened up with the right build hope this helped | ||
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kochujang
Germany1226 Posts
On November 12 2011 10:36 NrGmonk wrote: You can't. They don't play in tournaments that release replays. JYP and Hero stream however. HerO had tons of PvZ in MLG Raleigh. Check out the replay section in his fanclub. | ||
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Mikelius
Germany517 Posts
On November 12 2011 13:03 kochujang wrote: HerO had tons of PvZ in MLG Raleigh. Check out the replay section in his fanclub. The only problem I have with studying Hero is that he is all over the place! He has a "I'm gonna multitask the hell out of the other guy and win" mentality that I could never even hope to achieve at my current level of play. Hence my question regarding a "stable" style of play. Don't get me wrong, I love watching HerO play and think he is one of the best Protoss in the world, period. But it's like to trying to adopt special tactics as you standard play style. Which is a bit too much for 95% of the players out there. | ||
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Pasghetti
Canada11 Posts
Hope this wasn't already posted, basicly OgsMC goes over the 1 Gate Expand build, He also answers some questions and goes over little micro tricks. | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On November 12 2011 15:24 Pasghetti wrote: + Show Spoiler + http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4kwPnC_2zo&feature=related Hope this wasn't already posted, basicly OgsMC goes over the 1 Gate Expand build, He also answers some questions and goes over little micro tricks. I think it has it's own thread or something but even so it fits very well in with this thread. And about hero's multitasking it's pretty easy actually. Make warp prisms once you are on three bases and start warping in zealots where the zerg army is not. Sniping tech and/or bases this was is really easy. I can do it and I have like 80 apm  | ||
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Kluey
Canada1197 Posts
Games like Stephano vs Grubby at the Battle in Berlin look really sad because the Protoss has more bases, better micro and macro but still loses. WHAT TO DO? T_T | ||
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ForTheDr3am
842 Posts
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InvXXVII
Canada242 Posts
On November 12 2011 12:11 Darclite wrote: In PvP, if I'm opening gate/robo/gate, what are the proper transitions? As in, if I see them expand, do I add 1/2 gates and push with 2/3 immortals? If I see them go robo also, what do I do? If I see stargate, do I add a gate for extra stalkers or go straight for robo blink? When can I safely tech to colossi or expand? I just like to share what I do with early robo builds in PvP. I usually get 3 gates and a robo support bay as fast as I can (I start off with a 3 stalker rush to fend off any 4 gates). I get range as soon as the support bay finishes and I go ahead and expand. Then I start on building up my colossi count and I mainly warp in zealots. Depending on whether my opponents decide to pressure me or not, I either let my nexus finish or I cancel it. I have never seen this build mirrored exactly, and unless it is mirrored, I am pretty safe against any type of pressure. It is also to note that having tower vision and scouting is important if you want to stay alive with this. | ||
Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
On November 14 2011 07:26 InvXXVII wrote: I just like to share what I do with early robo builds in PvP. I usually get 3 gates and a robo support bay as fast as I can (I start off with a 3 stalker rush to fend off any 4 gates). I get range as soon as the support bay finishes and I go ahead and expand. Then I start on building up my colossi count and I mainly warp in zealots. Depending on whether my opponents decide to pressure me or not, I either let my nexus finish or I cancel it. I have never seen this build mirrored exactly, and unless it is mirrored, I am pretty safe against any type of pressure. It is also to note that having tower vision and scouting is important if you want to stay alive with this. Colossus builds are close to a build order loss against phoenix openings. Right now the one solid pvp opening, that's safe vs pretty much anything and can turn into either a strong 1base allin or a good macro game, while having the tools to deal with colossus builds in the midgame without going colossus yourself, is this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=249772 | ||
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rsvp
United States2266 Posts
On November 14 2011 07:02 ForTheDr3am wrote: Archon Toilet is the only consistent way to beat Broodlord (+infestor) armies it without the Zerg failing at control or having nothing against mass void rays. Carriers also work, infestors counter void rays but don't do anything to carriers. Corruptors do counter carriers but then you just add in HT and you're fine again. | ||
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ForTheDr3am
842 Posts
On November 14 2011 08:02 coL.rsvp wrote: Carriers also work, infestors counter void rays but don't do anything to carriers. Corruptors do counter carriers but then you just add in HT and you're fine again. Isn't a carrier transition harder than just building a mothership though if you are doing it reactively? Carriers seem like something you need to plan on in advance, and not something you can easily fall back on after realizing that you can't finish the game before broodlords. My bad about forgetting them though, they certainly can fight broodlord + infestor armies as well. Kind of a shame that both of them get removed in HotS. | ||
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rsvp
United States2266 Posts
On November 14 2011 08:13 ForTheDr3am wrote: Isn't a carrier transition harder than just building a mothership though if you are doing it reactively? Carriers seem like something you need to plan on in advance, and not something you can easily fall back on after realizing that you can't finish the game before broodlords. My bad about forgetting them though, they certainly can fight broodlord + infestor armies as well. Kind of a shame that both of them get removed in HotS. Not necessarily. Depending on if zerg scouts your transition or not, sometimes only a few carriers is enough to help fight off the initial brood lord army. In that case it takes longer to get a mothership with enough energy for vortex than it does to get out a few carriers. But also when you say reactively, protoss should always keep an eye out for when the zerg is getting hive tech. So keeping an obs by their lair or using a phoenix/hallucination to check hive timing should give you some time to reactively prepare with either mothership and/or carriers. | ||
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ForTheDr3am
842 Posts
On November 14 2011 08:22 coL.rsvp wrote: Not necessarily. Depending on if zerg scouts your transition or not, sometimes only a few carriers is enough to help fight off the initial brood lord army. In that case it takes longer to get a mothership with enough energy for vortex than it does to get out a few carriers. But also when you say reactively, protoss should always keep an eye out for when the zerg is getting hive tech. So keeping an obs by their lair or using a phoenix/hallucination to check hive timing should give you some time to reactively prepare with either mothership and/or carriers. I see. So I suppose you should make the decision between Carrier and Mothership on hand of certain ingame factors, such as the unit composition of the Z, your unit composition, map, whether you/him have air upgrades etc. Thanks for the response. | ||
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ExO_
United States2316 Posts
On November 14 2011 08:22 coL.rsvp wrote: Not necessarily. Depending on if zerg scouts your transition or not, sometimes only a few carriers is enough to help fight off the initial brood lord army. In that case it takes longer to get a mothership with enough energy for vortex than it does to get out a few carriers. But also when you say reactively, protoss should always keep an eye out for when the zerg is getting hive tech. So keeping an obs by their lair or using a phoenix/hallucination to check hive timing should give you some time to reactively prepare with either mothership and/or carriers. Even with chrono, reactionary carriers is a bit hard to achieve  . Interesting thought, but I question how viable it really is to start mixing in carriers late game without dying/giving up bases. Do you have any replays in which you utilize a carrier transition (whether to combat BLs or otherwise)? | ||
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rsvp
United States2266 Posts
On November 14 2011 08:44 ExO_ wrote: Even with chrono, reactionary carriers is a bit hard to achieve . Interesting thought, but I question how viable it really is to start mixing in carriers late game without dying/giving up bases. Do you have any replays in which you utilize a carrier transition (whether to combat BLs or otherwise)?http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=267259 | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
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ThePianoDentist
United Kingdom698 Posts
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rsvp
United States2266 Posts
On November 14 2011 13:11 ThePianoDentist wrote: seeing a terran 14cc in TvP how should i deal with this if i was aiming for 1 gate expand. i feel if i expand behind i am ridiculously behind so will just lose later. Should a 4 gate kill him assuming i can forcefield the bunkers to prevent repairs, when i tried it I badly botched it as I'd never 4 gated before. how do higher level people deal with cc first terrans? 14 cc is not actually that much economically better than standard 1 rax gasless expand, due to the later orbital. Just play normally, you won't be ridiculously behind even if you don't pressure it. | ||
monk
United States8477 Posts
On November 14 2011 13:11 ThePianoDentist wrote: seeing a terran 14cc in TvP how should i deal with this if i was aiming for 1 gate expand. i feel if i expand behind i am ridiculously behind so will just lose later. Should a 4 gate kill him assuming i can forcefield the bunkers to prevent repairs, when i tried it I badly botched it as I'd never 4 gated before. how do higher level people deal with cc first terrans? A 4 gate will not kill someone who knows what he's doing. One option you can do if you scout it in time (imo the best response) is pull guys off gas and do a gateway/no core expand. Another innovation I've seen on 2 player maps where 14cc is common(daybreak is all that comes to mind) is 9 scout. 9 scout allows you to greatly harass a 14ccer and even if he doesn't 14cc, you gain some of the econ you lose by forcing him to pull probes to stop harass on his scv building the rax. | ||
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