I loved the zealot flank idea, while I'm only a low-level player, I find it makes the 1-1-1 FAR more survivable. Tried it against my practice partner, worked wonders.

Divergence

Canada363 Posts

August 07 2011 23:27 GMT

#103

I'm wondering, can anyone can give some links to GSL matches where this type of Terran all-in is used?

The impression I get from this thread is that it is such a strong all-in that it should be dominating the pro levels of play (either directly by outright winning games, or by putting P in a bad position, forcing him to guess in the opening and fall behind).

Zealot Lord

Hong Kong747 Posts

August 07 2011 23:58 GMT

#104

On August 08 2011 08:27 Divergence wrote:
I'm wondering, can anyone can give some links to GSL matches where this type of Terran all-in is used?

The impression I get from this thread is that it is such a strong all-in that it should be dominating the pro levels of play (either directly by outright winning games, or by putting P in a bad position, forcing him to guess in the opening and fall behind).

Just watch the first two days (i think) of up&down matches last season, there are tons of TvP which the terran used this all-in.

Divergence

Canada363 Posts

August 08 2011 03:03 GMT

#105

Holy crap, I watched a couple matches from group B of Up/Down where T did the 1/1/1 allin. They were so painfully one-sided.

Snaphoo

United States614 Posts

August 08 2011 03:59 GMT

#106

This may be somewhat map-dependent, but flanking a 1-1-1 attack while simultaneously suiciding all of your probes at the natural into the siege line when engaging the Banshee/Marine/Tank force seems incredibly effective.

(Attack begins at ~7:04)

Xequecal

United States473 Posts

August 08 2011 04:26 GMT

#107

I find zealots to be actively terrible units against this. You only want like three to soak up the first tank volley, and then you want stalkers. The problem is that without charge zealots like to stay in a nice tight ball before they get into melee range which means they get utterly annihilated by tanks. They take two tank volleys in that packed ball while running into range and that brings all of them to nearly dead right out. Stalkers are in a ball initially but they then form a concave and then take far less splash damage. The biggest problem with stalkers is PDD but if you want to beat this you have to force him to blow it early then retreat to your natural.

Yoshi Kirishima

United States10366 Posts

August 08 2011 04:51 GMT

#108

Very nice guide! Thanks for making

I was a bit confused about seeing all this about the Terran 111 all-in build recently, wondering what it was about, but apparently it just means the marine/raven/banshee/tank all-in and its variations.

I agree with this guide, 1 gate robo and 1 gate expo robo are really good builds, especially since it deals well with these 111 all-ins (and is both economical, flexible, and helps you learn to scout, all good for learning players). SlayerS Cella was giving a protoss some lessons on how to defend against 111 all-ins and he said the 1 gate robo was the best.

Keilah

731 Posts

August 08 2011 05:12 GMT

#109

When the terran is doing this attack, he gets pretty good vision of your army via banshees right? Do terrans normally scan ahead as they're getting ready to attack?

I ask because some people are suggesting hiding zealots, but a clever terran who notices that you have less zealots than expected might just decide to hunt down your isolated force, in which case i see _very_ little chance for you to win the game. It might make more sense to just hide a pylon out there and warp in the flanking zealots as he moves in for the attack.

Would 100/100 for hallucinate be useful? If you can tank a few tank (heh) shots with hallucinated units, maybe even get him to focus down your 'immortals', that could be pretty huge. Even when he has a raven, his tanks will waste their first shot on the hallucinations if they are the first things to come into range.

Snaphoo

United States614 Posts

August 08 2011 06:15 GMT

#110

After watching + Show Spoiler +

Ganzi roflcopter Vanvan with 1-1-1 tonight

, XiaoT's method would have been hard pressed to hold cloakshees => 1-1-1. There are a lot of variations of this build.

Dingobloo

Australia1903 Posts

August 08 2011 06:19 GMT

#111

On August 08 2011 14:12 Keilah wrote:
Would 100/100 for hallucinate be useful? If you can tank a few tank (heh) shots with hallucinated units, maybe even get him to focus down your 'immortals', that could be pretty huge. Even when he has a raven, his tanks will waste their first shot on the hallucinations if they are the first things to come into range.

It's not just the cost of the upgrade, but the sentry energy cost, it's 100 mana (forcefield for reference is 50, guardian shield is 75) And getting any additional sentries seems like a bad idea for the dps you need.

wolnewitz

United States6 Posts

August 08 2011 06:36 GMT

#112

nice guide i have problems stopping this, think its cause i make too many stalkers can't wait to try a more z heavy comp thanks!

Tegin

United States840 Posts

August 08 2011 09:18 GMT

#113

Awesome guide! This has helped my protoss play vs T so much! Thank you!

Arch00

United States233 Posts

August 08 2011 09:56 GMT

#114

I've been using this at the low masters level and it definetely works quite well. Just don't make more than 4 stalkers and you'll pretty much be ok as long as your micro is even or better than his.

tnud

Sweden2233 Posts

August 08 2011 10:30 GMT

#115

BUMP.
Code A makes this thread relevant.

cilinder007

Slovenia7251 Posts

August 08 2011 10:48 GMT

#116

In all the code A matches I saw
+ Show Spoiler +

the protoss did a 1 gate FE and got wrecked by this

Deleted User 61629

1664 Posts

August 08 2011 12:50 GMT

#117

--- Nuked ---

Xahhk

Canada540 Posts

August 08 2011 13:52 GMT

#118

This might be tangential to the discussion (but still concerns 111), but has anyone been throwing in 4 gates to avoid this guessing game? The GMish EU player showed how hard this is to hold even if you predict correctly.

ForTheDr3am

842 Posts

August 08 2011 14:01 GMT

#119

Recently I have been going Nexus first on every map, every position because it's easier to hold a bunker rush on close position shattered Temple than an 1-1-1 on cross position taldarim.

AmericanUmlaut

Germany2590 Posts

August 08 2011 14:03 GMT

#120

On August 08 2011 18:56 Arch00 wrote:
I've been using this at the low masters level and it definetely works quite well. Just don't make more than 4 stalkers and you'll pretty much be ok as long as your micro is even or better than his.

Could you please post some replays? This discussion really needs a good selection of high-level replays of toss holding the push.