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Pillage
United States804 Posts
This is a solid build for people who are good at microing with infestors. Which is not a easy task. I personally don't think so for the first attack. Just spam infested terrans, run lings in and profit. However if it does fail and you end up with a big ball of blink stalkers coming after you, then your fungals better be pretty good. | ||
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Oboeman
Canada3980 Posts
On July 22 2011 18:46 Pillage wrote: I personally don't think so for the first attack. Just spam infested terrans, run lings in and profit. However if it does fail and you end up with a big ball of blink stalkers coming after you, then your fungals better be pretty good. The micro gets difficult when you have to deal with colossus or archons or big stuff, but early on against just gateway units, it's pretty trivial. | ||
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hvalross
Norway32 Posts
Also, HuK didn't have a wall-in at his natural. Most protoss will at least do some sort of wall-in business, and if they have this its not too much you can do with lings until he is trying to get his third. HuK didn't have any canons either, which also is kinda rare. The lack of canons and observers was what allowed the infestors to get so closed and spew out infested terrans. Also HuK's force field reaction was kinda off, and a combination of this made this push herpderp roflstomp him. My 2 cents on it | ||
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FishArrrgh!
Australia5 Posts
http://blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-326-p3-friendday-wednesday-w-destiny-zvp-5396920 It is super strong but you have to kill of the expansion otherwise you have dead zerglings and zero energy infestors. | ||
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malaan
365 Posts
 Usually, the attack comes before you have enough siege and defense (assuming you expanded fairly quickly and didnt do a 1 base allin). It's also devastating if they manage to sneak any infestors to your mineral line.. just to say im only top 10 masters on EU but still - mass infestor ling eventually into infestor broodlord is terran nightmare right now | ||
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sitromit
7051 Posts
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Vralaren
Sweden130 Posts
On July 22 2011 11:01 greater_kaq wrote: He stated it in his stream. The reason is it gives same eco because of early queen, and it doesnt auto lose to stupid cannon rush. Thank you  Then i will start doing it haha | ||
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MormonWithoutACause
United States94 Posts
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ETisME
12905 Posts
On July 22 2011 18:46 Pillage wrote: I personally don't think so for the first attack. Just spam infested terrans, run lings in and profit. However if it does fail and you end up with a big ball of blink stalkers coming after you, then your fungals better be pretty good. I think he did say that whether to fungal or spam infested terran is highly dependant on the player's skill and instinct. This is the difference between the good/bad infestors users according to him | ||
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ineffablepwnage
22 Posts
On July 22 2011 17:46 Pillage wrote: This looks just nasty. But then again, Steven is a beast and I'm bad lol. Still it seems that all of these high dps units do very well against protoss. With the growing popularity of blink stalker play this seems like an awesome build to take the fight to the protoss, instead of just waiting to see if he might attack. Does it seem feasible to have the lings have 2 attack and one armor for the push? That would be very hard for toss to deal with if this was obtainable in a timely manner. Destiny stated that it is better to get the extra infestors for this push than to have 2/1 ups b/c of the extra energy for fungals/infested terrans. Since this style is infestor focused, I would agree with him b/c the infestors allow you to deal with a wider variety of toss strats. Lings are really only cost effective vs stalkers in the open, and since you're trying to push into a base that is gonna be sim-citied and have to deal with FF and chokes the lings are gonna be less effective, and the infested terrans are a better choice since you can get them in range, or use NP to snag colossi, put fungals on probes/units, etc. | ||
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headchopperz
25 Posts
As a protoss i can tell you its very strong, maybe too strong ^^. | ||
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iSTime
1579 Posts
On July 22 2011 01:15 MrDudeMan wrote: Actually no. The timing push is a lot better against protoss then it is against terran. Also in the game against Time, the reason he was unable to take down the nexus was because of bad micro, if he had focused it down earlier it would have gone down. Also the reason he lost was because he thought Time would go for templar tech instead of colossus, and destiny began to make roaches, if he had made zerglings/infestors he probably could have held it off (assuming he micro'ed correctly). I've only played against Destiny's particular build once, but I don't agree with his assessment of the situation. Obviously if he actually kills the nexus he is probably ahead, but as far as I can tell, the attack has to do that much damage for him not to die to the two base collossus timing. Ling/Infestor alone is terrible against collossi backed by many forcefields and blink. Also, collossi with +3 attack one-shot zerglings even with 3 armor. I think you're better off following up the attack with baneling drops rather than a fast hive. | ||
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CrAzEdMiKe
Canada151 Posts
Just my $0.02... But I think +1 damage at an insane rate of fire from a bazillion infested terrans would equal more dead Protoss. The only reason I can see armor being more valuable is to help keep the infestors alive... But then again they're burrowed while doing this anyway. | ||
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Superiorwolf
United States5509 Posts
that was actually what I was thinking also. I think if I ever do this build, I would get the +1 attack instead of the +1 carapace, because even though the lings are supposed to be tanks, the dps of infested terrans is very very high right? | ||
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Olsson
Sweden931 Posts
1. Doesn't take a third. 2. Spends all his larvae on units. 3. If he doesnt do damage he is on equal bases with the protoss, no infestor energy and with probably no army. 4. Bad economic situation. | ||
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Pwnographics
New Zealand1097 Posts
On July 23 2011 12:01 Olsson wrote: More like an all-in, in my eyes. Why you might say? 1. Doesn't take a third. 2. Spends all his larvae on units. 3. If he doesnt do damage he is on equal bases with the protoss, no infestor energy and with probably no army. 4. Bad economic situation. 1) He takes a third as he's pushing out. 2) Well you need units to deal damage, so therefore you need to spend larvae. 3) It is effective against sentry expands because of the infested terran range. 4) Not really, he could have either done that attack or had 20 or so more drones. 20 or so more drones on 2 base doesn't make much of a difference. After that attack he could use his next wave of lava to make those 20 drones as his third pops. | ||
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ineffablepwnage
22 Posts
On July 23 2011 12:01 Olsson wrote: More like an all-in, in my eyes. Why you might say? 1. Doesn't take a third. 2. Spends all his larvae on units. 3. If he doesnt do damage he is on equal bases with the protoss, no infestor energy and with probably no army. 4. Bad economic situation. 1. In the day9 VOD, destiny says as he starts to move out he takes a third_AND_a fourth and usually gets in a round or two of drones. 2. any zerg army costs larvae 3.same idea could be applied by any attack by any race. 'why did that toss go 2 base blink timing when he could have taken a third?' 4. he's got all the eco he needs to follow it up even if the third or the fourth gets sniped as the toss army rolls into his base for a counter as he gets hive as he atks -->ultra or roach depending on what he scouts in the attack. ultra/infestor/roaches are all strong units for the larvae they cost and as long as he reacts correctly and doesn't screw up micro he'll have done enough dmg to hold off whatever army the toss has left By your logic, any zerg attack before max food is an all-in. | ||
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DarKFoRcE
Germany1215 Posts
On July 22 2011 20:04 hvalross wrote: Just watched the HuK match, and honestly I'm really unsure how viable this push really is. First of all huk opened phoenix into templar, which is kinda rare and really weak until the templars has the energy for storms. Also, HuK didn't have a wall-in at his natural. Most protoss will at least do some sort of wall-in business, and if they have this its not too much you can do with lings until he is trying to get his third. HuK didn't have any canons either, which also is kinda rare. The lack of canons and observers was what allowed the infestors to get so closed and spew out infested terrans. Also HuK's force field reaction was kinda off, and a combination of this made this push herpderp roflstomp him. My 2 cents on it This is by far the best post in this thread. While this push CAN work, there are ALOT of ifs and buts in it. First off, at the beginning, destiny got 2 lings into huks based, delayed some mining (shouldnt happen). Then he scouted the stargate with an overlord, this is already really bad for protoss. Then the phoenices obviously didnt do much damage, but huks expo was later than with other builds because of it. Then he had no cannon and didnt go robo and went for templars pretty quickly with very few units and no wallin. I am very sure that he would have just died to any hydra push just as easily, and the hydrapush would have also been better in case there is a wallin and cannons. | ||
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Pillage
United States804 Posts
Huk opened phoenix into templar, which is kinda rare and really weak until the templars has the energy for storms. I noticed this too. Huk ended up switching his tech around quite a bit, while trying to build his economy. As a result his army suffered and Destiny steamrolled him with a well timed attack. I may not be a Zerg player (I am a Toss btw and have had something similar happen to me)... But would something to be considered instead of going for +1 Melee/+1 Armor might be to go +1 Melee/+1 Ranged? The infested Terrans would do a LOT more damage that way, and as he stated himself, Protoss have very few means of dealing with mass mass units. Lending help to the enemy race is kinda stupid I suppose... But it also frees up a little more gas for infestors (as ranged is 100 gas vs 150 for armor) and in the event that the opponent is going for high templar, he states that roaches are his response to this... And ranged coincidentally buffs the roaches =P Just my $0.02... But I think +1 damage at an insane rate of fire from a bazillion infested terrans would equal more dead Protoss. The only reason I can see armor being more valuable is to help keep the infestors alive... But then again they're burrowed while doing this anyway. The +1 would be nice on infested terrans, but you need that armor upgrade for your lings other wise zealots kill them in two hits. Its vital to have the carapace because a good protoss should be +1 for this attack. Investing in all three upgrades would delay tech and lower infestor count, so I don't think that its viable to do that. | ||
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Mahtasooma
Germany475 Posts
On July 22 2011 01:06 cscarfo1 wrote: It is a good push. But there are some flaws in a way. In his matche vs vVvTime, he lost bc after his 1st push failed to destroy vVvTime's Natural Expansion Nexus, which had 33HP. In that time, destiny double expanded to a 3rd and 4th base. vVvTime counter-attacked and destroyed Destiny. Build is good vs. terren, but has flaws against protoss. Especially when the toss has an observer and can detect the burrowed Infestors The push is acutally terrible vs Terran. One scan and all Siege Tanks / Marines obliterate burrowed Infestors. Detection is not so much of an issue when you move in with infestors and lings at the same time. | ||
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