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[H]How does ZvZ work? - Page 2

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Arisen
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States2382 Posts
July 15 2011 21:34 GMT
#21
On July 16 2011 00:49 Gobbles wrote:
Pff don't listen to these muta haters, I go surprise muta like 8 outa 10 ZvZ's past the 10 minute mark and I win almost every time, unless I was already at a disadvantage (ie took some bad bling hits). Your opponent will always just try to base race, so as your muta's pop, throw up 4-5 spines and start upping the roach numbers. Kill as many drones/queens as possible after showing the muta's then return with them to defend. You can even pick off infestors as they try to counterattack. Its a beautiful thing.

Edit: also, you don't need a giant flock with your whole strat being based on muta's, about 8 is fine. If they don't get an opportunity to do the damage predicted (drone kills), then run around popping overlords and killing extractors, you now have map control. Take a third, and mass roach w/ double upgrades pumping.


This is wrong. Please don't listen to this and fuck over your improvement. You will win (probably) a lot of gimmicky games. In lower leagues people will get caught off guard by mutas. Better players will not, however, and then you've wasted a bunch of gas on something that's basically useless. Stick to standard play. Yes, you can win with mutas at low levels, but I can win with fucking mass hydra if I want to at low level, it doesn't make it a good strategy.

Now, I'm not saying muta is bad, like I said, it can work if you really know what you're doing (nestea is playing around with this right now), but right now, you just don't need to worry about this.

"If you're not angry, you're not paying attention"
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
July 15 2011 22:20 GMT
#22
Another note about the mid to late game. Use Speedlings. Running them into the enemy's mineral line forces a few responses out of him:

1) Over make Queens and static D, making his army smaller; or he could choose to keep his army at home, so you now have the map.

2) You can see his tech. ZvZ is about high-speed countering, so seeing his base when he can't see yours is pretty big.

3) If you kill lots of Drones (which you should focus on doing), he has to remake them, which again gives you an army advantage.

These are basic ideas for any ZvX matchup, but they're more noticable in ZvZ because of how the matchup and Larvae as a mechanic works.
It's your boy Guzma!
Staboteur
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Canada1873 Posts
July 15 2011 22:33 GMT
#23
On July 15 2011 21:28 Arisen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 15 2011 20:25 Marsupian wrote:
Although mutas might be gimmicky you still have to watch out for them. If you are playing passive he might be massing up mutas resulting in an instant GG. If you see your opponent putting down a LOT of spinecrawlers that's usually a sign he is going mutas (or some other tech).

I like to switch to mutas if I'm really far behind in a ZvZ. I just drop down a ton of spines and make a big ball of mutas and hope my opponent doesn't recognize it. It usually doesn't work but it has gotten me a few wins from an unwinnable situation.


I said don't go mutas, not that mutas don't exist. If they don't prepare at all, yes, you win. If they prepare in ANY way, you lose. That's a bad build


I find mutas to be an excellent way to checkmate from an advantage in ZvZ. If you secure a moderate economic or army advantage going in to the midgame, a tiny swarm of 3-5 mutalisks with half-decent control can be extremely taxing on your opponent. It practically forces either hydras or a spire of their own before your opponent can safely move across the map. Also, a small swarm of mutalisks can be a fine way to force infested terrans, fungals, or pick off infestors from your opponent's army at very little gas risk to yourself.

Though I'm not gonna disagree with you; any mutalisk opening I've seen ZvZ is a situation you get through with tightly crossed fingers. Mutalisks from an advantage, though, are the nail in the coffin more often than not.
I'm actually Fleetfeet D:
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