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Make OC and 1 marine before CC, it's better really. The marine can scare away the drone and keep Z in the dark more about your intentions, if you show you're not making a marine early Z can drone up too easily and T can't keep up with Z in economy then (unlike P who can with double nexus).
Delaying the OC is also bad, the gains of having OC faster outweigh having the CC a bit earlier.
On the maps where you want to do this strat you can often go CC at the natural straight away with this strat, your method of doing it doesn't really allow that as you don't have an early marine with it.
Make marine, scare away scout, float rax to second wall in (tal darim or shakuras), make CC at natural then make rax #2 and #3 along with supply depot #2 at second wall-in. Not having to float over the CC more then pays for having the CC a little bit later.
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its good build, but i dont really like opening, you give zerg to much free time to do whatever he wants, it will feel like coun flip. I think you can do 2rax presure opening into this. It will let you to know what hes doing, will let you have as good or better economy than zerg(depending how your presure went). Not to mention you will be improving faster, since you start heavy multitasking from game beggining(control marines + expand, macro base ).
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Thanks alot for this guide  It helped alot.
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2 rax pressure into 9 minute marauder/marine timing into 12 minute 4 tank push used by supernova against check is extremely similar to this. I suggest you check it out. This build, if known by the zerg player, is weak because the zerg has a lot of "free" time where they can do anything.
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On June 28 2011 18:36 Diderick wrote:
I just realised how good this opening is TvP. I was struggling past days tvp and with this timing attack you can easily trade armies costeffective on most map (sentry's!). This build can set you up for a very strong midgame TvP where you can denie Toss third while taking one yourself. Tried it twice and worked very well (1500 master). It strikes after 2 gate robo first collosus timing i think, but you can handle one collosus, and than his gateway count will be low. I think this is a better TvP build than TvZ.
This is actually a really good idea.
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WOW. I like this very much. Fits my play style very well. This is definitely going to be my new standard TvZ. Thanks a ton.
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On June 28 2011 21:42 Nocteo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 18:36 Diderick wrote:
I just realised how good this opening is TvP. I was struggling past days tvp and with this timing attack you can easily trade armies costeffective on most map (sentry's!). This build can set you up for a very strong midgame TvP where you can denie Toss third while taking one yourself. Tried it twice and worked very well (1500 master). It strikes after 2 gate robo first collosus timing i think, but you can handle one collosus, and than his gateway count will be low. I think this is a better TvP build than TvZ. This is actually a really good idea.
Ofcouse BO is slighly different, you have to go early OC and Marine, and can't wall on bottom, and need bunker earlier, but idea is similar.
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Will try this build... but the problem i see is, no pressure on the zerg fe? You're first pressure comes at 9 minutes which basically gives zerg plenty of time to drone up like mad.
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On June 28 2011 18:36 Diderick wrote:
I just realised how good this opening is TvP. I was struggling past days tvp and with this timing attack you can easily trade armies costeffective on most map (sentry's!). This build can set you up for a very strong midgame TvP where you can denie Toss third while taking one yourself. Tried it twice and worked very well (1500 master). It strikes after 2 gate robo first collosus timing i think, but you can handle one collosus, and than his gateway count will be low. I think this is a better TvP build than TvZ.
what about 4 gate? and obviously you transition into standard mmm vikings + ghosts?
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When walling at the bottom like you suggest how do you stop the initial drone scout sniping your SCV building the rax? It seems like you either have to delay a little and halt the building and attack the drone before he gets a hit in (you have to be super aware), or hope that your SCV spends enough time on the safe side of the walloff.
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On June 29 2011 12:20 zergrushkekeke wrote:
When walling at the bottom like you suggest how do you stop the initial drone scout sniping your SCV building the rax? It seems like you either have to delay a little and halt the building and attack the drone before he gets a hit in (you have to be super aware), or hope that your SCV spends enough time on the safe side of the walloff.
Halt and fight off the drone to get the first hit while pulling a second SCV to finish the rax - very easy to micro against. It doesn't matter if you are delaying your rax - you are not rushing OC or marines.
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I don't think this is a 1 rax done right without that early marine. You could get beat by a 6 pool. I am guessing if you are so econ focused you aren't scouting before your wall is up. and that extra distance hurts as does not having the sight advantage against early roaches.
Also it doesn't work on all maps, or any GSL maps with the depot at the bottom.
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On June 29 2011 11:11 mols0n wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 18:36 Diderick wrote:
I just realised how good this opening is TvP. I was struggling past days tvp and with this timing attack you can easily trade armies costeffective on most map (sentry's!). This build can set you up for a very strong midgame TvP where you can denie Toss third while taking one yourself. Tried it twice and worked very well (1500 master). It strikes after 2 gate robo first collosus timing i think, but you can handle one collosus, and than his gateway count will be low. I think this is a better TvP build than TvZ. what about 4 gate? and obviously you transition into standard mmm vikings + ghosts?
4 Gate is easy to stop with 1 rax fe if you keep cc in base. 2 bunkers is enough usually if you walled of.
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Awesome thanks for this guide - 1raxfe is definitely my favourite build and this will help me refine it
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What about tournaments? Low ground wall off is not viable. How much does this affect the build?
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10 Depot (bottom ramp)
12 Rax[1] (bottom ramp, do not make marines until 18 supply)
With this, is meant to block the ramp on the bottom? or just build them in a line parallel to your oc?
Because I thought you can't block the bottom ramp with 2 buildings anymore
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On June 29 2011 18:48 nface wrote:
10 Depot (bottom ramp)
12 Rax[1] (bottom ramp, do not make marines until 18 supply)
With this, is meant to block the ramp on the bottom? or just build them in a line parallel to your oc?
Because I thought you can't block the bottom ramp with 2 buildings anymore
you can try it
what i'm more concerned about is the advice to proxy an scv somewhere and move it in at 6 mins+ to scout. more often than not it will see nothing. a lot depends on blind luck such as scanning the sling mass (or any other tell-tale signs) that may or may not happen in time to defend adequately.
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On June 29 2011 18:48 nface wrote:
10 Depot (bottom ramp)
12 Rax[1] (bottom ramp, do not make marines until 18 supply)
With this, is meant to block the ramp on the bottom? or just build them in a line parallel to your oc?
Because I thought you can't block the bottom ramp with 2 buildings anymore
I think it depends on the map. The tourney maps with the depot can't be blocked. If you can get it down, you can deny a 6 pool but not the bling bust follow us.
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United States355 Posts
You should really change the opening build order or change the thread title. This isn't the way any pro Terrans 1 Rax FE. MKP, MMA, Bomber, NaDa, and everyone else I've seen always do it like this:
15 OC, Marine
16 CC
17 Depot
I don't get why you'd skip your first marine and delay your OC by nearly a minute just to start the CC 5-10 seconds earlier, it's riskier and less economical than doing the standard 1 Rax FE. The standard way also allows you to punish FE Zerg with marine+bunker.
It's also standard to wall at the top of ramp, not bottom. Your first Marine can often deny the drone scout, and this will make you safer against Roach aggression and other builds people mentioned.
None of those games were on ladder, and they were all on Xel'Naga Caverns, one of the few maps where the starting Overlord can't scout anything. None of them seemed to respond correctly either.
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griffith, thanks again for another sweet post :D
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EPT
