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[Q][L] Some basic Protoss Builds

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Nazarene.
Profile Joined May 2011
United Kingdom10 Posts
June 17 2011 22:02 GMT
#1
Hello, this is my first post on TL so please be nice - or just forgiving

I am a gold level Protoss on EU, going against mostly platinum level opponents at the moment and I am starting to notice a decline in my win/loss. I watch lots of streams and people say I should just refine three builds, one for each race.

I’m going to list the current builds I prefer and say what goes wrong with them, if it is needed I will find out how to upload replays as well, thank you for your advice.

PvZ
3 Gate F.E, I have chosen this build as it seems pretty safe, this is my most preferred match up but EU seems to be full of Protoss so I don’t get to practice this build a lot. The only trouble I have found with this build is force field micro if they all in me on one base, but I suppose that is to be expected and it will come within time

PvP
3 Gate Robo. I have tried four gating but most of my opponents can FF there ramp until there eco starts to overtake and they get a colossi so I have switched to this build, it is also safer I find against DT cheese.

PvT
I have no clue, the only time I seem to win this match up is with a 2 gate Robo or something similar, it just seems when they get conc shell and stim up Terrans can faceroll me.

I am hoping to get some advice on three nice builds / maybe more to get me to plat and hopefully above I would prefer build orders or a replay if that’s okay

Thank you for reading and hopefully for some tips on how to improve on these match ups
banditproductions
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States48 Posts
June 17 2011 22:05 GMT
#2
For PvT, You can go for 3gate blink into expo with +1 armor.

Works really well for me. Storm drops are also effective basically against every race lol
Also, for the storm drops its basically 3gate robo for obs then warp prism. The you get psi storm. You can also go zealot archon with this.

Hope this helped.
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=295528 My streaming event
Nazarene.
Profile Joined May 2011
United Kingdom10 Posts
June 17 2011 22:11 GMT
#3
Thank you for the quick reply, are archons very effective against Terran? I have not really experimented with them alot in general
tehemperorer
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2183 Posts
June 17 2011 22:14 GMT
#4
On June 18 2011 07:11 Nazarene. wrote:
Thank you for the quick reply, are archons very effective against Terran? I have not really experimented with them alot in general

Yes they are good, but as with any unit it depends on synergy, timing, and use
Knowing is half the battle... the other half is lasers.
banditproductions
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States48 Posts
June 17 2011 22:18 GMT
#5
Agreed. They do a lot of damage to light units. If you want to look up the stats go to the (Wiki)http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Units page. And look at the units for protoss, and click on the ones you would like to see.
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=295528 My streaming event
Genesiss
Profile Joined March 2011
United Kingdom29 Posts
June 17 2011 22:21 GMT
#6
In my opinion, I would never go 3gate blink stalkers as a opener. It leaves you vulnerable to Banshees and Mauraders just destroy Stalkers on the whole. But I do agree with the Armour first upgrade.
The safest opener for PvT, I believe is 3 gate Robo. And you should just stick to that, cause with correct scouting and correct reaction you can hold just about everything.
Nazarene.
Profile Joined May 2011
United Kingdom10 Posts
June 17 2011 22:25 GMT
#7
So against Terran should I mostly go stalker/ immortal whilst teching into Collosi?
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12246 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-17 22:27:49
June 17 2011 22:26 GMT
#8
Zealots are a superior choice to stalkers, since they fare better against marauders and are still good vs marines. For "standard" PvT play, check out http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=196385 as well as http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=211115
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
CodECleaR
Profile Joined November 2010
United States395 Posts
June 17 2011 22:33 GMT
#9
Just to venture outside the examples already given in the thread, I like to open up with a modified aggressive three gate expansion versus Terranwhich can be found here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=202262
After attacking with that and most of the time doing damage, I like to grab a robo for 2-3 observers (1 w/ main army, 1 scouting him, 1 patrolling/scouting for drops) and then go double forge with double upgrades, adding a twilight council to keep upgrades pumping when necessary. Prepare to take a 3rd once 1/1 finishes and take one when you know it won't leave you super vulnerable to a sudden attack. Basically, while others in the thread are saying that straight collo with gateway units is great, personally, I prefer doing some early game damage, then going double ups into hts and proceeding to do a tech switch to double robo collo once my 4th base is starting. An upgraded zeal stalk sentry army with charge decimates bio and doesn't require sexy positioning to win a battle like collo stalker does.
How do you beat a terran who's hardcore turtling off 3 base? Flip him on his back and walk away."
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12246 Posts
June 17 2011 22:36 GMT
#10
On June 18 2011 07:33 CodECleaR wrote:
Just to venture outside the examples already given in the thread, I like to open up with a modified aggressive three gate expansion versus Terranwhich can be found here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=202262
After attacking with that and most of the time doing damage, I like to grab a robo for 2-3 observers (1 w/ main army, 1 scouting him, 1 patrolling/scouting for drops) and then go double forge with double upgrades, adding a twilight council to keep upgrades pumping when necessary. Prepare to take a 3rd once 1/1 finishes and take one when you know it won't leave you super vulnerable to a sudden attack. Basically, while others in the thread are saying that straight collo with gateway units is great, personally, I prefer doing some early game damage, then going double ups into hts and proceeding to do a tech switch to double robo collo once my 4th base is starting. An upgraded zeal stalk sentry army with charge decimates bio and doesn't require sexy positioning to win a battle like collo stalker does.


Colo play is easier at lower levels however, because often people don't have the best ff's. Heavy gateway styles are great, but for someone who claims to be at a loss as to what to do in pvt, colossus builds are the best way to start imo.
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
hyponikZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States61 Posts
June 17 2011 22:38 GMT
#11
+1 chargelots early destroys terrans that go siege tank expand when I play toss(i play all races at a masters level) - I will sometimes go DT's into chargelots(since you have excess mins) and expo behind it, if I dont instantly end the game with 3-4 DT's I'll stop production of DT and tech into chargelots and gg it a few mins later(as you are pushing with DT's you will be making lots of Zealots with extra mins and boosting out +1)
cy@
ODKStevez
Profile Joined February 2011
Ireland1225 Posts
June 17 2011 22:41 GMT
#12
For PvT try Huks 20 food nexus, it's great fun and it is linked in this strategy forums if you wanna check it out. I use it myself and I love it xD
Luppa <3
chaopow
Profile Joined March 2011
United States556 Posts
June 17 2011 22:43 GMT
#13
I'm a masters level protoss and your PvP and PvZ builds are basically what I do to. Also it might be helpful to learn a blink stalker opening for PvP, where you open up 3 early stalkers to take out any proxy pylons. Its good to refine just one build, but if you improve a lot, it might be good to pick up another build.

Also in PvZ if zerg does a 1 base all in you should be able to scout it with your initial scouting probe. He will usually drop a roach warren relatively early, probably before his lings spawn which will kill your probe. If I ever lose my probe and realize he hasnt expanded yet, I always send a secondary probe down a path out of the watch towers to check for the expo.

In PvT I like to go for 1gate expand on big maps and 3gate expo on most other maps. If its close positions, I'll go for a 2gate robo defensive play, and if theres no attack then I'll expand. 1 gate and 3 gate expand are both very vulnerable to early barracks timing attacks but if you have good FF micro and good scouting you should be able to hold off. At gold level I would probably stick to 2gate robo expand on most maps, and 3gate expand on large macro maps. The only slight weakness to 3gate expand is cloak banshees so just be aware of the terran's gas timing.



Soowoo AD.
Navillus
Profile Joined February 2011
United States1188 Posts
June 17 2011 22:48 GMT
#14
I'm also focusing on just standard builds, I do 3 gate sentries PvZ, 4 gate PvP (if you don't want to get ffed off every game you really have to get the timings tight on this) and 3 gate expand into double forge PvT, which is pretty safe against bio pressure.
"TL gives excellent advice 99% of the time. The problem is no one listens to it." -Plexa
Nazarene.
Profile Joined May 2011
United Kingdom10 Posts
June 17 2011 22:55 GMT
#15
Thanks for all the advice would love to keep it coming, I know most of it just comes from a sheer amount of pratice and my opponents at the moment all seem to have 700 wins over me for some reason and and are in the league above me
blooblooblahblah
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia4163 Posts
June 17 2011 23:01 GMT
#16
On June 18 2011 07:41 ODKStevez wrote:
For PvT try Huks 20 food nexus, it's great fun and it is linked in this strategy forums if you wanna check it out. I use it myself and I love it xD


This build should be your go-to build on maps like Shakuras where u can get away with it extremely easily. However, on smaller maps or close position maps, GateRoboGate is the safest PvT build u can do.

It seems you have chosen 3 of the safest PvX builds possible which is generally a good thing to improve your game. So honestly i don't think your builds are the problem, it's just your skill level (or perhaps your execution of the builds). With your current builds, u should be given the chance to outplay your opponent so maybe the solution is to improve your mechanics and general gameplay. Since your not doing risky builds, it'll be easier to analyse your macro and decision making.

I suggest looking at MC's 3Gate Robo vs Tyler at MLG Columbus (Game 3 i believe) and see how your 3GateRobo compares. Refining your builds just makes it less sloppy and it's good to know precise timings for some things. I'd personally get all of MC's reps from MLG and study his openings, particular his 3Gate Expo vs T, his 1Gate Expo vs Z and his precisely timed Forge FE into Stargate build tht he held off all sorts of cheese with.

Ganzi beat me without stim. Ostojiy beat me with a nydus. Siphonn beat me with probes. Revival beat my sentry-immortal all-in.
WindOw
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Sweden407 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-17 23:36:45
June 17 2011 23:35 GMT
#17
On June 18 2011 07:02 Nazarene. wrote:
Hello, this is my first post on TL so please be nice - or just forgiving

I am a gold level Protoss on EU, going against mostly platinum level opponents at the moment and I am starting to notice a decline in my win/loss. I watch lots of streams and people say I should just refine three builds, one for each race.

I’m going to list the current builds I prefer and say what goes wrong with them, if it is needed I will find out how to upload replays as well, thank you for your advice.

PvZ
3 Gate F.E, I have chosen this build as it seems pretty safe, this is my most preferred match up but EU seems to be full of Protoss so I don’t get to practice this build a lot. The only trouble I have found with this build is force field micro if they all in me on one base, but I suppose that is to be expected and it will come within time

PvP
3 Gate Robo. I have tried four gating but most of my opponents can FF there ramp until there eco starts to overtake and they get a colossi so I have switched to this build, it is also safer I find against DT cheese.

PvT
I have no clue, the only time I seem to win this match up is with a 2 gate Robo or something similar, it just seems when they get conc shell and stim up Terrans can faceroll me.

I am hoping to get some advice on three nice builds / maybe more to get me to plat and hopefully above I would prefer build orders or a replay if that’s okay

Thank you for reading and hopefully for some tips on how to improve on these match ups


Hi there, I'll try to help you a bit, I'm your average master league toss using pretty much the same set of openings you're doing, however there are several things that make me first decide what build I'm going with. The most important is obviously the map, what kind build would be good on this map? If we're playing Taldarim, PvZ, a good safe build is forge expand. however on Xel Naga you probably want to go with a 3 gate expand due to the map layout.

You had some issues with all-in Zergs I'll try to explain how I deal with this; to effectively prevent getting killed by all-in you first off need to be on top of scouting; most important is check if he is expanding or not, use hallucination, be sure to send out a second probe while you return with your other probe that's getting chased by zerglings. Use it to scout if he's making drones or not while you set up your expansion. A good investment is to make a forge/gateway and use it to make a "sim city defense" (which reduce the amount of force field you need) and if you're scouting an all in you can add more cannons to deal with it (I always add at least 1 cannon, and get +1 attack early).

Versus Terran I apply the same tactic and thinking; what map? what positions? I'd guess that a good build for gold would be 3 gate robo, this is extremely safe, it can however put you behind economically so be sure to pressure some if he's expanding, be smart with your units, don't over commit. If he haven't expanded yet you should be safe to take your own expansion, also chrono boost that first observer.... a good idea would be to get 2 observers if you're suspecting factory-play, banshees can be quite annoying (also, double observer ftw iNcontrol? ).
Some other builds thats pretty oki: 3 gate expand, 1gate robo, 1gate expand. 15 nexus on certain maps can be good.

Vs protoss, my obvious choice would still be 4 gate, depending on the map of course, though I've had some decent results with 3 gate robo on some maps with ramp.
AKA WindOw[InCa] (BW) | TheMisT (SC2) | NaNiwa FC founder
Torres69x
Profile Joined December 2010
United States14 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-17 23:43:01
June 17 2011 23:42 GMT
#18
This TL post helped me immensely in PvT where my record went from something like winning 30-50% of PvT to winning 75%.

You want to be able to focus on macro while being able to stop most types of all ins and timing attacks that terran will throw at you. There will be a time when your army will be just too massive along with your production capacity. Once youre on 3 base with double forge gateway units aided by colossi cut Rax units like butter.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=196385

(Edit: Typo)
By any means necessary.
daralharb
Profile Joined January 2011
United States59 Posts
June 17 2011 23:44 GMT
#19
vs T I like to go gate then robo (around 24 supply) then immediatly expand. When the robo finishes, Chrono out a observer and send it via the most likely attack path to the Terran's base. If T is going for a rush, then cancel the Nexus and make an immortal. If T is expanding your Nexus should finish before his CC. After that a normal collosi build works, you're ahead at that point.
Oh, and WindOw seems to know his stuff too.
Nazarene.
Profile Joined May 2011
United Kingdom10 Posts
June 18 2011 01:19 GMT
#20
If anyone checks this thread looking for help I found this on starcraft /r/ http://williamjudd.com/2011/06/17/popular-protoss-build-orders/ really really helped me
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