|
On June 17 2011 08:39 Alejandrisha wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2011 08:32 tuestresfat wrote:On June 17 2011 08:08 Alejandrisha wrote:On June 17 2011 07:29 tuestresfat wrote:
I saw whitera do this in a PvP, and Kiwi did a variant of this where he got (iirc) 11gas before gateway, and an early forge for +1 in a PvZ.
I've been doing it on ladder (usually when close air spawns are available) PvP and PvT, but for PvP it's kinda "holy shit I hope he doesn't place pylons around his base cuz stalkers can focus the warp prism down and you're basically screwed after your first warp in. If they didn't notice (which they usually don't), then if they did anything but a 4gate they're basically screwed. forcefields won't do them any favours unless they simcitied which no1 does in pvp.
A slight variant, if you aren't close air spawns, just proxy the robo facility (i.e. in xel'naga caverns, I proxied my robo in the expansion above my opponent's main who spawned in the south). Rally your 2zealots + stalker there, spend 1 more chrono on your warp prism instead of probes (will delay the push a little but not much) so your first warp in is in his base. You will not have any units at his front.
Haha that was a pretty funny game. I don't think it has too much educational value though. Nowadays you'll rarely see a protoss respond to a 3:00 cybernetics core by... adding a second gas, putting on no pressure and gearing up for a blink timing. It was very cool to watch, though. I'm thinking a warp prism 4gate might be strong against a protoss who takes his 2nd gas right in front of you, as when you hit, your opponent will not have blink yet, he will not have dt's anytime soon, he won't have colossus, and he probably won't be 4gating you (though I have seen some 2 gas 4 gates recently. If I have an oppurtunity to try it in pvp I will definitely give it a shot and post the replay here! Yea i'm not sure why whitera opted to chrono out more probes and delaying his cyber for a good 20+ seconds. he also got his 2nd gas as he pushed out. i execute it to make it appear like a standard 4gate, and the majority of players respond with 3gate robo, which (more often than not) loses to this. The core came late because he cut a bit of econ to get his gas so early. I think the early gas might have been pretty good pre WG nerf but now I think not so much. With the build in the OP, your robo feels late because it takes a long time to get 200 gas (stalker, wg, robo) off of one gas at the standard time. Before the WG nerf, you could get the earlier gas and be FINE with a slightly later core because WG came 20 seconds faster. Now that it comes later, it's no longer worth it to delay your core (and therefore your WG) in order to get a faster robo as your timing will be capped by your WG finishing and not your warp prism training, anyway. I hope that makes sense o_O And I think white-ra got the 2nd gas (and therefore more probes) because he wanted more stalkers than you would want in a PvT; if he stays on 1 gas, he'll be down 100 gas because of the robo already and stalkers could kite him forever. Obviously that didn't matter too much in this game because he caught genius with his pants down.
I re-watched the vid and whitera went 12gate 14gas (same as your OP). I still don't understand how he wasn't able to plant his cyber (he had like 70minerals) down immediately after gateway. It's not like he made a zealot or anything. I doubt whitera would queue a ton of probes for no reason...
edit: as far as the first few minutes of the game are concerned, he matched genius in probe production. Not really any cutting anywhere.
|
I just did this build (Shattered Temple, cross positions) within minutes of reading it for the first time and managed a win with it, sloppily executed, but I read it on the way home and decided to try it out.
REPLAY HERE
Obviously it was sloppy, but hey-I'm gold and this was a first attempt. Good build though, useful for some quick games, thanks a bunch OP!
|
On June 17 2011 09:24 tuestresfat wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2011 08:39 Alejandrisha wrote:On June 17 2011 08:32 tuestresfat wrote:On June 17 2011 08:08 Alejandrisha wrote:On June 17 2011 07:29 tuestresfat wrote:
I saw whitera do this in a PvP, and Kiwi did a variant of this where he got (iirc) 11gas before gateway, and an early forge for +1 in a PvZ.
I've been doing it on ladder (usually when close air spawns are available) PvP and PvT, but for PvP it's kinda "holy shit I hope he doesn't place pylons around his base cuz stalkers can focus the warp prism down and you're basically screwed after your first warp in. If they didn't notice (which they usually don't), then if they did anything but a 4gate they're basically screwed. forcefields won't do them any favours unless they simcitied which no1 does in pvp.
A slight variant, if you aren't close air spawns, just proxy the robo facility (i.e. in xel'naga caverns, I proxied my robo in the expansion above my opponent's main who spawned in the south). Rally your 2zealots + stalker there, spend 1 more chrono on your warp prism instead of probes (will delay the push a little but not much) so your first warp in is in his base. You will not have any units at his front.
Haha that was a pretty funny game. I don't think it has too much educational value though. Nowadays you'll rarely see a protoss respond to a 3:00 cybernetics core by... adding a second gas, putting on no pressure and gearing up for a blink timing. It was very cool to watch, though. I'm thinking a warp prism 4gate might be strong against a protoss who takes his 2nd gas right in front of you, as when you hit, your opponent will not have blink yet, he will not have dt's anytime soon, he won't have colossus, and he probably won't be 4gating you (though I have seen some 2 gas 4 gates recently. If I have an oppurtunity to try it in pvp I will definitely give it a shot and post the replay here! Yea i'm not sure why whitera opted to chrono out more probes and delaying his cyber for a good 20+ seconds. he also got his 2nd gas as he pushed out. i execute it to make it appear like a standard 4gate, and the majority of players respond with 3gate robo, which (more often than not) loses to this. The core came late because he cut a bit of econ to get his gas so early. I think the early gas might have been pretty good pre WG nerf but now I think not so much. With the build in the OP, your robo feels late because it takes a long time to get 200 gas (stalker, wg, robo) off of one gas at the standard time. Before the WG nerf, you could get the earlier gas and be FINE with a slightly later core because WG came 20 seconds faster. Now that it comes later, it's no longer worth it to delay your core (and therefore your WG) in order to get a faster robo as your timing will be capped by your WG finishing and not your warp prism training, anyway. I hope that makes sense o_O And I think white-ra got the 2nd gas (and therefore more probes) because he wanted more stalkers than you would want in a PvT; if he stays on 1 gas, he'll be down 100 gas because of the robo already and stalkers could kite him forever. Obviously that didn't matter too much in this game because he caught genius with his pants down. I re-watched the vid and whitera went 12gate 14gas (same as your OP). I still don't understand how he wasn't able to plant his cyber (he had like 70minerals) down immediately after gateway. It's not like he made a zealot or anything. I doubt whitera would queue a ton of probes for no reason... edit: as far as the first few minutes of the game are concerned, he matched genius in probe production. Not really any cutting anywhere.
Oh my mistake. I think some one said they saw white-ra use an 11gas for the build and I just assumed that was the game. In that case, that is very peculiar his core would be ~15 seconds late. I guess white-ra just puts down buildings when he feels like it and wins anyway 
|
On June 17 2011 06:36 Synystyr wrote:Just died to this! I'm punching myself in the face right now for only glancing over this thread earlier xD. This build is the hard counter to my 2 Rax 3 Bunker opener. There's nothing I could have done to hold it off once the engagement began. I scouted it but it looked like a 2 Gate Robo expand, not a Warp Prism allin. A little spin off the metagame, but incredibly smart nonetheless. Well done Alej  Now I'll just have to devise a way to stop this!
Replay please!!!! Sounds like they hid their gateways pretty well eh? hehe
|
On June 17 2011 04:26 Alejandrisha wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2011 17:38 RimJaynor wrote:
vs Zerg.
This would work very well against my Ice Fisher Build. As long as you can defend the warp prism from my 4 queens its pretty much one of the best chances of taking an ice fisher build early game. You could pull off gas and mine straight mineral and just pump out z's, as you would only be going up against queens and slow lings. And then spines when they are uprooted from the front of the base. Yeah I definitely think this has applications in PvZ, as a zerg isn't likely to be very heavy on roaches at the timing when it hits. However, He will probably be aware that you haven't taken a second gas so you might want to grab a 2nd gas just for show but not mine much at all from it.
Zerg these days seem to lean more towards spine crawlers for defending a 4gate when they see one gas, rather than roaches.
|
On June 17 2011 13:47 Dhalphir wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2011 04:26 Alejandrisha wrote:On June 16 2011 17:38 RimJaynor wrote:
vs Zerg.
This would work very well against my Ice Fisher Build. As long as you can defend the warp prism from my 4 queens its pretty much one of the best chances of taking an ice fisher build early game. You could pull off gas and mine straight mineral and just pump out z's, as you would only be going up against queens and slow lings. And then spines when they are uprooted from the front of the base. Yeah I definitely think this has applications in PvZ, as a zerg isn't likely to be very heavy on roaches at the timing when it hits. However, He will probably be aware that you haven't taken a second gas so you might want to grab a 2nd gas just for show but not mine much at all from it. Zerg these days seem to lean more towards spine crawlers for defending a 4gate when they see one gas, rather than roaches.
I'm sorry; I wasn't implying that the zerg would react to a 4gate with roaches, just that he won't have roaches at the timing of the attack unless he's doing a very low econ roach-ling all in. I suppose if the zerg reacts by making a lot of spines it makes it easier for this build
|
this is WhiteRa's special tactics, he has been doing this for a while
it can work in PvP if the enemy steals your gas, show them ur 4 gates but not the robo
And He will get sentries which will be useless. GG.
|
On June 18 2011 21:15 panda_inc wrote:
this is WhiteRa's special tactics, he has been doing this for a while
it can work in PvP if the enemy steals your gas, show them ur 4 gates but not the robo
And He will get sentries which will be useless. GG.
or he eco 4gates, places pylons around his base and straight up kills you.
|
4 gate is pretty easy to stop now without eco 4 gating it is more likely they will be going tech + sentries, it is an all in what do you expect
|
Just performed some special tactics last night. Close air shattered temple. Stay tuned for replay<3
|
uploaded a new replay. bitches love new replays
http://replayfu.com/download/sVf0Gd
Here I kinda screwed up the timing because of the reaper scout. The 4th gate should have gone down with the other 2 but I didn't want to give it away too blatantly. Somehow my 2 additional pylons were late as well 
|
Does anyone have any Terran advice/replays on stopping this? Having a bunker up is pretty key to stopping a 4 gate with most Terran builds and the warp prism completely circumvents that...
|
this is much better in PvT
|
Always much appreciate! You're guids are always so well organized and thought out
I will definitely be trying this.
|
|
|
Is it advisable to make a sentry back home during the attack or use the gas on stalkers? Situation dependent or are other people making the sentry too?
|
this is probably getting hard counterd by a 2rax expand with 5marines and a marauder, but works quite well against the rest!
|
I hate this build .
So far i faced it only once on the ladder and i got into his base with my hellion and scouted 4 warpgates. The robo was hidden in a corner of his base , so after i scouted 4 warpgates gates the last thing i thought about is doing some more scouting if theres a robo  . 3 bunkers at the ramp are somewhat useless vs this .
You could add hellion scout to the scouting options that terran can do.
|
can someone post a link to plexa's guide to warp prism?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
