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Alejandrisha
United States6566 Posts
On June 16 2011 17:12 QuAnTuM314 wrote: I am completely going to be trying this out on ladder all day ^_____^ If we get any good replays, do you want them to add to the OP or will you add your own? I'd be happy to watch them if you post them here. I don't use this too much but on the offchance I do use it I will upload | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6566 Posts
On June 16 2011 17:38 RimJaynor wrote: vs Zerg. This would work very well against my Ice Fisher Build. As long as you can defend the warp prism from my 4 queens its pretty much one of the best chances of taking an ice fisher build early game. You could pull off gas and mine straight mineral and just pump out z's, as you would only be going up against queens and slow lings. And then spines when they are uprooted from the front of the base. Yeah I definitely think this has applications in PvZ, as a zerg isn't likely to be very heavy on roaches at the timing when it hits. However, He will probably be aware that you haven't taken a second gas so you might want to grab a 2nd gas just for show but not mine much at all from it. | ||
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freetgy
1720 Posts
i use something similar to it. | ||
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rsvp
United States2266 Posts
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FenneK
France1231 Posts
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Synystyr
United States1446 Posts
This build is the hard counter to my 2 Rax 3 Bunker opener. There's nothing I could have done to hold it off once the engagement began. I scouted it but it looked like a 2 Gate Robo expand, not a Warp Prism allin. A little spin off the metagame, but incredibly smart nonetheless. Well done Alej  Now I'll just have to devise a way to stop this! | ||
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AGIANTSMURF
United States1232 Posts
here, have a replay (1300+ master)![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-215547.jpg) | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6566 Posts
On June 17 2011 05:20 Anihc wrote: Your guides are great as always. I love how it's broken up into chunks and you bold important phrases. Makes it fun to read. Thanks Thank you for noticing :D I previewed it when I was done typing it and figured it needed a punch up so I went bold ^^ Everyone feel free to post their replays! It's damn fun to do this and I'd like to see how these games play out as I don't get scrap a lot, and it's 1/3 that it's vs terran. | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6566 Posts
On June 17 2011 06:53 AGIANTSMURF wrote: One of my favorite builds in PvT, anytime i feel that the terran is being shady (especially close air positions) this is my go-to build here, have a replay (1300+ master)Haha nice. As you'll find, doing this against a mech expand play is pretty much a slam dunk. I'd be wary about double gassing, even if you pull them early on. Your gates came up late and as a result so did the attack. I appreciate your input | ||
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tuestresfat
2555 Posts
I've been doing it on ladder (usually when close air spawns are available) PvP and PvT, but for PvP it's kinda "holy shit I hope he doesn't place pylons around his base cuz stalkers can focus the warp prism down and you're basically screwed after your first warp in. If they didn't notice (which they usually don't), then if they did anything but a 4gate they're basically screwed. forcefields won't do them any favours unless they simcitied which no1 does in pvp. A slight variant, if you aren't close air spawns, just proxy the robo facility (i.e. in xel'naga caverns, I proxied my robo in the expansion above my opponent's main who spawned in the south). Rally your 2zealots + stalker there, spend 1 more chrono on your warp prism instead of probes (will delay the push a little but not much) so your first warp in is in his base. You will not have any units at his front. Here is the vid of whitera vs genius: | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6566 Posts
On June 17 2011 07:29 tuestresfat wrote: I saw whitera do this in a PvP, and Kiwi did a variant of this where he got (iirc) 11gas before gateway, and an early forge for +1 in a PvZ. I've been doing it on ladder (usually when close air spawns are available) PvP and PvT, but for PvP it's kinda "holy shit I hope he doesn't place pylons around his base cuz stalkers can focus the warp prism down and you're basically screwed after your first warp in. If they didn't notice (which they usually don't), then if they did anything but a 4gate they're basically screwed. forcefields won't do them any favours unless they simcitied which no1 does in pvp. A slight variant, if you aren't close air spawns, just proxy the robo facility (i.e. in xel'naga caverns, I proxied my robo in the expansion above my opponent's main who spawned in the south). Rally your 2zealots + stalker there, spend 1 more chrono on your warp prism instead of probes (will delay the push a little but not much) so your first warp in is in his base. You will not have any units at his front. Haha that was a pretty funny game. I don't think it has too much educational value though. Nowadays you'll rarely see a protoss respond to a 3:00 cybernetics core by... adding a second gas, putting on no pressure and gearing up for a blink timing. It was very cool to watch, though. I'm thinking a warp prism 4gate might be strong against a protoss who takes his 2nd gas right in front of you, as when you hit, your opponent will not have blink yet, he will not have dt's anytime soon, he won't have colossus, and he probably won't be 4gating you (though I have seen some 2 gas 4 gates recently. If I have an oppurtunity to try it in pvp I will definitely give it a shot and post the replay here! | ||
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ExO_
United States2316 Posts
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Alejandrisha
United States6566 Posts
On June 17 2011 08:19 ExO_ wrote: How does this handle vs a terran who just pulls SCVs away from your zealots, instead of attack moving with them (and thereby getting them killed), while leaving his bunker filled and pulling the rest of the units to handle the drop? As long as you are halting mining time, you are doing fine. In the meantime, whack on infrastructure: depots, addons, unit producing structrues. Once your zealots have made the scvs stop mining, you can then add stalkers to help deal with the terran kiting you to his bunkers. You will need to engage with zealots as well if he is getting marauders, however. | ||
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DuckS
United States845 Posts
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Alejandrisha
United States6566 Posts
On June 17 2011 08:26 DuckS wrote: This is a pretty good PvT build. I've stolen quite a few games with it myself when I get close air and just dont feel like putting up with mass drops or the certain spawn. I know what you mean. The reason why I ripped this build off white-ra way back when was because I was sick of PvT on this map. Drops are so strong and raven and/or banshee all-ins are very prevalent. I felt like opening phoenixes was the only answer, but playing the same way blindly every game in a style that is mostly harass and doesn't punish greedy builds is not a great way to play it. Then came white-ra... | ||
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tuestresfat
2555 Posts
On June 17 2011 08:08 Alejandrisha wrote: Haha that was a pretty funny game. I don't think it has too much educational value though. Nowadays you'll rarely see a protoss respond to a 3:00 cybernetics core by... adding a second gas, putting on no pressure and gearing up for a blink timing. It was very cool to watch, though. I'm thinking a warp prism 4gate might be strong against a protoss who takes his 2nd gas right in front of you, as when you hit, your opponent will not have blink yet, he will not have dt's anytime soon, he won't have colossus, and he probably won't be 4gating you (though I have seen some 2 gas 4 gates recently. If I have an oppurtunity to try it in pvp I will definitely give it a shot and post the replay here! Yea i'm not sure why whitera opted to chrono out more probes and delaying his cyber for a good 20+ seconds. he also got his 2nd gas as he pushed out. i execute it to make it appear like a standard 4gate, and the majority of players respond with 3gate robo, which (more often than not) loses to this. | ||
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Leyra
United States1222 Posts
You know what else I'd love to see, is a rip of WhiteRa's 2gas version of this build vs a terran who fast expands.. where he grabs sentries to FF the terran out of his own base, such a cute and sexy play, I love it! I think the real moral of the story is... WhiteRa is a total nerd baller :D | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6566 Posts
On June 17 2011 08:32 tuestresfat wrote: Yea i'm not sure why whitera opted to chrono out more probes and delaying his cyber for a good 20+ seconds. he also got his 2nd gas as he pushed out. i execute it to make it appear like a standard 4gate, and the majority of players respond with 3gate robo, which (more often than not) loses to this. The core came late because he cut a bit of econ to get his gas so early. I think the early gas might have been pretty good pre WG nerf but now I think not so much. With the build in the OP, your robo feels late because it takes a long time to get 200 gas (stalker, wg, robo) off of one gas at the standard time. Before the WG nerf, you could get the earlier gas and be FINE with a slightly later core because WG came 20 seconds faster. Now that it comes later, it's no longer worth it to delay your core (and therefore your WG) in order to get a faster robo as your timing will be capped by your WG finishing and not your warp prism training, anyway. I hope that makes sense o_O And I think white-ra got the 2nd gas (and therefore more probes) because he wanted more stalkers than you would want in a PvT; if he stays on 1 gas, he'll be down 100 gas because of the robo already and stalkers could kite him forever. Obviously that didn't matter too much in this game because he caught genius with his pants down. | ||
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ntvarify
United States331 Posts
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Tsuki.eu
Portugal1049 Posts
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