Thanks for this, had no idea. Personally I think it should be lost(since it adds something to be better at, while still being very easy to do), but awesome to know how it actually works. <3

Volka

Argentina408 Posts

June 10 2011 17:06 GMT

#43

omg I didn't know this. Thx!

Divine-Sneaker

Denmark1225 Posts

June 10 2011 17:17 GMT

#44

Oh my, didn't know there was an automatic refund. Having played so much bw, and even wc3 this seems too easy on players, but I disgress.

zergrushkekeke

Australia241 Posts

June 10 2011 18:22 GMT

#45

I felt bad to put down numbers in a reference thread without testing them recently (that even djWHEAT posted in omg omg omg) here are the results of 3 custom games where i would destroy my own buildings while training - upgrading to see what happens, my horrible math is included but is also very boring.

amount refunded
Destroying building that is training units (Marine) = 100%
Destroying building researching upgrade (Pre-Igniter) = 100%
Destroying building upgrading (planetary fortress) = ~75%
unit sniped on the way to put down a building(command center) = 100%

Cancelling training units (Marine) = 100%
Cancelling researching upgrade (Pre-Igniter) = 100%
Cancelling building upgrading (command center to planetary fortress) = ~75%
Cancelling an addon near end (tech lab) =~75%
Cancelling an addon just started(tech lab) =~75%

Cancelling a Building being constructed (rax - near complete) =~75%
Cancelling a Building being built (rax - just started) =~75%

Destroying a cocoon (ultralisk inside) = 100%
Cancelling Cocoon before it hatches(zerglings)= 100%
Destroying unit upgrading (morphing overseer) = ~75%
Cancelling unit upgrading (morphing overseer) = ~75%
Cancelling unit upgrading (morphing overseer near end) = ~75%

+ Show Spoiler +

amount LOST:

Destroying:
Building training units (Marine) = 100% 272-272 188-188
Building researching upgrade (Pre-Igniter) = 100% 272-272 188-188
Building upgrading (planetary fortress) = 0% 753-716=37 , 165- 128=37(from 150, 150)
Building upgrading (lair) =% 1636-1599=37, 602-577=25 (from 150, 100)

Cancelling:
Building training units (Marine) = 100% 272-272 188-188
Building researching upgrade (Pre-Igniter) = 100% 272-272 188-188
Building upgrading (planetary fortress) = 100% 780-743=37,150-113 =37

addon near end tech lab 284-272=12 194-188 =6(from 50.25)
addon just started 296 - 284=12, 200 - 194 =6
Building Building rax near complete(150) 333-296=37
Building Building just started 370 - 333=37
unit sniped on the way to put down a building = 150-150
Unit upgrading (morphing overseer) = 75% 1399-1387=12, 477-452=25 (from 50,100)
Unit upgrading (morphing overseer near end) = 75% 1387-1375=12, 452-427=25
Destroying unit upgrading (morphing overseer) = 587-575=12,464-439=25

(cant cancel warpins)
Cancelling Cocoon before it hatches(zerglings)= 100% 1710 - 1710
Cocoon hatching (sniping a cocoon with an ultralisk inside) = 0%2060-2060, 802-802

sniping the pylon during a unit warp (zealot)= 3521 -3521
sniping the pylon during a building warp (gateway) = (doesn't cancel building)
destroying building while being built = 0% 3321- 2971

weird other things, eggs have 10 armor and 200 health, but are not light units anymore (banelings do 10 damage (20 normal -10 armor) - they can still 1 shot larva for 25 damage (35 light bonus -10 armor)

isospeedrix

United States215 Posts

June 10 2011 18:35 GMT

#46

Thanks I updated the opening post.

zergrushkekeke

Australia241 Posts

June 10 2011 19:07 GMT

#47

Oh and the cooldown isn't wasted for protoss units being warped in, if you get pylon sniped you can instantly use that warpgate at another pylon.

I think this has convinced me that sniping units that are warping in instead of pylons is way better.

The other results really don't change much in terms of strategy besides not trying to cancel before a upgrade building is sniped, it is still 100% worth it to snipe those building if there is a chance as those resources were still being tied up all that time, and the main reason is it messes with the timing, especially if it is something important like stim or siege.

Philymaniz

United States177 Posts

June 10 2011 19:08 GMT

#48

damn so I don't have to cancel stim when it's about to be sniped??

zergrushkekeke

Australia241 Posts

June 10 2011 19:13 GMT

#49

Unless you desperately need the resources a split second sooner, no.

zergrushkekeke

Australia241 Posts

June 11 2011 08:01 GMT

#50

isospeedrix - the OP is still not accurate, these two are wrong

Unit upgrading (morphing, overseer) = 0%
Cocoon hatching (sniping a cocoon with an ultralisk inside) = 0%

should be something like 75% and 100%

The easiest way to remember this is it doesn't matter if you cancel something (except constructing buildings) or if your opponent does (by killin stuff) there is the same refund, which is either 100% or 75%

Edit: added construction bit

watwat

48 Posts

June 11 2011 08:23 GMT

#51

Am I reading that correctly that killing a warping-in pylon refunds 100%?

So when you plop down 3 pylons on the lowground and they kill 2 of them during warpin, they've wasted a bunch of shots?

edit: Why would this be different from other buildings?

Cruzlord

Hungary10 Posts

June 11 2011 08:41 GMT

#52

Intresting

RetZ

Australia67 Posts

June 11 2011 08:53 GMT

#53

On June 11 2011 17:23 watwat wrote:
Am I reading that correctly that killing a warping-in pylon refunds 100%?

So when you plop down 3 pylons on the lowground and they kill 2 of them during warpin, they've wasted a bunch of shots?

edit: Why would this be different from other buildings?

Units warping in in the power field of a pylon give a full refund if the pylon is destroyed. The pylon still costs 100mins.

zergrushkekeke

Australia241 Posts

June 11 2011 09:09 GMT

#54

I'm wrong about this...

If you kill a structure warping in (protoss building constructing) they get 0% refund...
If you cancel the structure you get about 75 % back. (tested only with pylons and gateways, and barracks)

Valckrie

United Kingdom533 Posts

June 11 2011 09:17 GMT

#55

Oh wow i didnt know that... thought you had to cancel ;s

FeyFey

Germany10114 Posts

June 11 2011 09:19 GMT

#56

when i heard a caster mention this that you get refunded when you don't cancel it, i was a bit upset, because it weakens harassment by alot. Plus i always thought damn those pros are good i didn't even see them cancel it and they still got money back heh. Guess they wanted to increase army reaction time towards harassment because you don't need to cancel the stuff anymore, also tech labs are so easy to snipe, i guess they felt its unfair.

Eleaven

772 Posts

June 11 2011 09:40 GMT

#57

sigh.. was sure u had to cancel, as sum1 who actually uses hotkeys for more than my main army and MAYBE my nexus.. i always felt that bit better when i got those cancels in..

Arcanewinds

United Kingdom197 Posts

July 11 2011 17:53 GMT

#58

Bump on this, just heard a caster make this mistake again, clearly needs more exposure ;D.

Really nice post, just found this through google ftw

Olsson

Sweden931 Posts

July 11 2011 18:02 GMT

#59

That's FUCKING bullshit. If zerg doesn't get their money back for a cocoon getting destroyed why should protoss get their money back from a warp-in. It's retarded and goes against the logic.

windsupernova

Mexico5280 Posts

July 11 2011 18:08 GMT

#60

On June 10 2011 04:30 Anihc wrote:
This is not the same mechanic as in BW/WC3, hence why there's so much confusion. But you're right, it is annoying to hear casters not know this.

Is is almost exactly the same >_>

Only difference was that upgrades refund you 75% in BW. I am not sure about W3 but a friend told me its like in SC2