EPTQuestion is...why did Blizz just make warp gate research = Stim?....w/e...
Just happy there are people on PTR trying to break it, which results in a better game.
[D] PTR 6s/1z 4-gate: just as fast - Page 2
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EliteAzn
United States661 Posts
Question is...why did Blizz just make warp gate research = Stim?....w/e... Just happy there are people on PTR trying to break it, which results in a better game. | ||
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Kovaz
Canada233 Posts
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10366 Posts
If so, then it seems a better change because in order to do so you need to 10 gate (riskier/less-economical) and cut probes (do u cut probes for the "standard" current version?), aka in order to do the 6 stalker 1 zealot you have to consider a bigger risk and a very small benefit in reward. Thanks for shraing! | ||
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CrAzEdMiKe
Canada151 Posts
On May 06 2011 11:51 PJA wrote: Why do people keep saying that 4 gate is just as strong if not stronger? It was nerfed. It is strictly inferior to what it was before. It cannot be stronger. Quoted for truth. You can achieve the exact same results as you did now by following the exact same build order. The only difference is that your Warpgate will come... Sooner. The way your economy lines up and all that will be exactly the same. The 4gate was pretty much optimized for that matchup... And saying that making Warp Gate 20 seconds slower (slightly less with the extra chrono) and a reduced pylon radius makes the build magically better? I think not... Especially when you've also got a weaker economy. It makes absolutely no sense. As others have posted, the additional time hasn't completely nuked 4gate strategies, but they make it MUCH more obvious and easy to prepare for... Because the opponent can't just "fake" the 4gate without putting himself behind. Even if the opponent goes for an eco 4gate, he may be down the 150 minerals for that extra gate, but you're down a ton more from the lower economy. Also thing to note: Sentry build time has been reduced, and as a result, they will spawn faster and accumulate more energy right from the get-go. Just reducing the Sentry build time alone has an impact on 4gate, nevermind the nerfs they imposed on the build. | ||
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Timestreamer
Israel157 Posts
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Anomandaris
Afghanistan440 Posts
the standard 6-stalker 1-zealot 4-gate hits at 5:45, not @6min | ||
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_Fiction_
United States33 Posts
with chrono boost all the way i believe its 10 seconds slower? does chrono cut time in half? | ||
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trew
Sweden93 Posts
On May 06 2011 15:34 Anomandaris wrote: Lol, your doing the 4 gate wrong dude. the standard 6-stalker 1-zealot 4-gate hits at 5:45, not @6min you are aware that this is the PTR right? I'd say that unnerfed 4g hits at 5:45 tho. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
still makes the new 4gate ~13sec slower. Not saying this might not be enough for PvP, but add the Pylon nerf to this and I think PvP could develope really differently. the real thread of highlevel 4gate is warping in units in the opponents base. with a Pylon only having 6.5 range and a stalker having 6range, in order to have 0.5range on the high ground, you have to get into stalker range when you build the pylon. | ||
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Valkola
Finland128 Posts
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Arolis
United States496 Posts
On May 06 2011 16:11 _Fiction_ wrote: there is no possible way to make the 4 gate stronger by making warp gate take longer to research >.< with chrono boost all the way i believe its 10 seconds slower? does chrono cut time in half? Nope, chrono boost reduces the time by 33% (or as the tooltip says, increases speed by 50%) so it comes out 13.33 seconds slower if fully chrono boosted. This build does seem interesting, but I don't think anyone will be caught off guard by it in PvP and the other matchups already have better tools to deal with 4 gate than protoss does. The slight increase in economic loss by going 10 pylon 10 gate makes it even more of an all-in. And it'd be so easy to scout. As people have mentioned, part of what made 4 gate so strong was that the length of time between revealing a 4 gate was occurring and when the attack is launched was very narrow. Now it's as wide as the Grand Canyon. | ||
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Elean
689 Posts
On May 06 2011 16:11 _Fiction_ wrote: there is no possible way to make the 4 gate stronger by making warp gate take longer to research >.< It's possible in PvP if the defender relies on warpgate tech himself (very likely). I doubt 4gate will be nearly as strong as it currently is though. | ||
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darmousseh
United States3437 Posts
If you see something different please let me know. | ||
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Geiko
France1952 Posts
Your build : obvious 10 gate, and 4 gates before stalker chases out scouting probe. When you KNOW 4 gate is coming for sure, its really not a problem to deal with. | ||
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Gladiator6
Sweden7024 Posts
I don't think this will be a too big of a problem just whiners that want the build removed for ever. | ||
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Ziggitz
United States340 Posts
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sleepingdog
Austria6145 Posts
The fact that you need to 10 gate 4 gate in order to match a "classic" 12/13 gate 4 gate right now would only prove that this won't be a problem if you a) scout it properly and b) react properly by 4 gating more economicly. Can't play PTR, so a somewhat theory-crafty response. But if you want to compare timings off a 10 gate 4 gate, you have to compare it to a...well....10 gate 4 gate that is possible right now. | ||
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Paradice
New Zealand431 Posts
On May 06 2011 10:17 michaelhasanalias wrote: you can still hit the 4gate timing with ease, and with just as much (if not more) force. All I can say to this is... if you really believe that this now has "more" force, you don't have to wait for the patch. Just build a cyber core, then wait 20 seconds after it finishes before you start your warp gate research. Bam! Back to reality though - don't compare a 10 gate to a 12 gate. Try a 10 gate on the current timings and compare to a 10 gate on the PTR. You won't find the PTR version stronger. | ||
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
Gee in new patch 10 gate 4 gate is about as fast as a classic 12 gate 4 gate.... That doesn't mean the 4 gate is nerfed hard. 10 gate 4 gates are easy to scout and lose to any economical defense, say a 3 gate defense for example. Reduction in sentry build time, lower pylon range and 4 gate being a bit slower, about 10-14 secs slower because you can CB it once more, makes a huge difference. It's still possible the classic 4 gate maps, tal darim and scrap station, will still be some sort of 4 gate fest but at other maps it will be really easy to defend with non-4 gate builds now. | ||
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AdroiT
United States77 Posts
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