EPT[G] An aggressive path in ZvP - Page 4
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JustinHit
United States196 Posts
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Pwere
Canada1557 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + July actually used this style to take out Huk on XelNaga Caverns. He delayed the expansion long enough with 20+ lings, then pushed with ten hydras while taking the gold. He retreated and made a dozen mutalisks while massing speedlings and denying Huk's third. Finally, he made a bazillion banelings for the finishing blow, focus firing the colossus with his mutas and rolling the banelings into the sentries. It worked out beautifully; Huk was always one step behind. | ||
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Dragar
United Kingdom971 Posts
I worry about the retreat of the hydras; it seems fragiel if you lose them without doing a lot of damage. Maybe fast burrow? | ||
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Dragar
United Kingdom971 Posts
On March 28 2011 11:02 HitStarcraft wrote: i use to do mutas but phoenix hard counter that easily. There's zero chance of a stargate. If he's opened that way your hydra/ling push will be super strong. | ||
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commiekaze
Canada31 Posts
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Macpo
453 Posts
Otherwise I have to insist: I think that the drop version is really simply better, for the reasons I gave (unit positioning, especially you can surround the choke when you drop in the main). you gain a few seconds of free hits (even one or two is not neglectable imo) it makes sentries half useless, static defense completely useless, you can send a bunch of lings in the main mineral line, so that even if you lose the fight, he may have lost half of his economy capacities, you can destroy the cybernetic core to prepare the coming of mutas... Moreover, to be honest, the building is pretty easy to do, as long as you have the timings in mind, You can go for semi automatic mode, until you drop and muta harass, where some micro is necessary... edit: and yes, phoenixes may be a problem for hydras in the beginning (small groups of hydras can be lifted up if you are not careful); but later, not at all: who would go for phenixes after facing some hydra push and having held it with difficulties (supposing that you have time and money to counter the muta wave, which comes at around 13, i.e. 2 mn after the hydra push)? | ||
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Pwere
Canada1557 Posts
These VODs are free, no need to buy a ticket. | ||
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Dragar
United Kingdom971 Posts
1) Scout four warpgate. Makes 3 roaches and a boat load of lings. 2) Scout expansion - keep making lings! 3) Pressure, force cancel on exansion. 4) Drone, get lair, get second gas, but keep pressuring until cannons/sentires are in sufficient number to back out. 5) Lair finishes - get second two gas. 6) Lair finishes. Get macro hatch?! Take gold. Macro hatch likely in preparation of mineral excess and heavy ling play. 6) Get roach speed, get hydra den, hydra range, many hydras and lings. Get +1 ranged attack. 7) Collosus is fairly late at 10 minutes just starting robo. +1 attack and 5 gates slowed huk down a lot. 8) Get more hydras. 9) Attack with hydra ling when opponent is out of position to get ready to take third, put down spire. Snipe sentries if possible with hydra ling (preparing for baneling phase). 10) Make lings and drone up third. 11) Ranged attack finishes, start carapace. Deny third for as long as possible. 12) Spire finishes - make 7-10 mutas, many lings. Gas at your third just starting. Add baneling next. Get speed asap. +1 spire attack. 13) Max out on lings. Spend everything else on banelings! 14) More banelings! 15) More banelings! 16) Maxed; take fourth, try to split enemy with muta harass, attack in one place. 17) Win?! | ||
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Macpo
453 Posts
Also, his mutas are coming very late, as compared to what I would like (and is possible)... I think it makes the whole attack less punchy! (more macro oriented). Anyway, great game to watch! | ||
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DImported
Australia149 Posts
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Alejandrisha
United States6566 Posts
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magha
Netherlands427 Posts
On March 30 2011 17:13 Alejandrisha wrote: zerg on 40 drones 2 base and even 50 drones 3 base, i guess this is mostly roach + some upgrades and some speedlings, can kill/abuse a protoss that is being very greedy and trying to secure a 3rd base before he has an adequate amount of colosi to control the ground (i suppose less than 4). aggressive zergs will be able to kill the protoss before he can get this "death ball" that i have heard about while macro zergs will be able to deal with it in 2 or 3 maxed armies worth on 60+ drones. It's really a stylistic thing It seems the bigger the ball the more effective it gets, relatively. So it'll probably be better to take the agressive route. | ||
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enykie
Germany64 Posts
when he expanded, he had a good amount of sentlots to defend (to less lings by my side?) my drop failed slightly, because he knew that i would drop anywhere (we tried some games before) even when i would drop surprisingly, i looks easy holdable for a camping fast exe toss. (masterleague) | ||
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Macpo
453 Posts
@ Alejandrisha : I am afraid you did'nt really read the post, as it's not about roach zergling all-in. In addition to that, it's not a matter of greedy or not greedy toss players. ZHM waves work well against any 3 gate sentry expand. Moreover, when we see that macro zerg have so many problems dealing with the late game they nevertheless target (as they are macro), we start wondering if chosing this way is a matter of style or just stubbornness. Idra vs cruncher last week end was so typical of this: 1st game, idra macro like crazy and loses; 2nd game hydra drop, and he wins... (even though imho his drop was kind of late, plus a muta follow up is easier and more efficient than repeated hydra drops). Doesn't that give us to think? | ||
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LoLAdriankat
United States4307 Posts
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Alejandrisha
United States6566 Posts
On March 31 2011 00:59 Macpo wrote: replays would be really interesting! as I can't see how you can "easily" hold it,.. @ Alejandrisha : I am afraid you did'nt really read the post, as it's not about roach zergling all-in. In addition to that, it's not a matter of greedy or not greedy toss players. ZHM waves work well against any 3 gate sentry expand. Moreover, when we see that macro zerg have so many problems dealing with the late game they nevertheless target (as they are macro), we start wondering if chosing this way is a matter of style or just stubbornness. Idra vs cruncher last week end was so typical of this: 1st game, idra macro like crazy and loses; 2nd game hydra drop, and he wins... (even though imho his drop was kind of late, plus a muta follow up is easier and more efficient than repeated hydra drops). Doesn't that give us to think? yes yes i'm not talking about ling roach all in either. i'm just talking low econ aggression and only making units for timings you feel are coming | ||
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Johnnybb
Denmark486 Posts
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Dragar
United Kingdom971 Posts
a) The lack of a roach warren. I feel if he does a cancel on the nexus and fakes a four-gate, or even some 3-gate pressure, you'll melt. b) The time after the hydra drop, before mutas pop. A counter attack here would be nasty. Or even just after mutas pop it feels pretty fragile. Basically this is a hydra-ling drop timing push when collosi are just before popping, meaning he's spent a lot of cash on tech and very little on units past sentries, which are worthless against a hydra drop. The drop wrecks economy and lowers the unit count, allowing for a tech switch into mutalisks that is quite devastating. I think there needs to be a plan to get scouting on a robo or not. If it's a heavy gateway army being made, this will fail badly, so that somehow needs to be accounted for, as well as a roach warren in case of a push. I wonder if making some speedlings early to delay a nexus/threaten a backstab if he moves out would keep you safe from 3-gate. You need something certainly. After safely getting to muta-ling also needs something else to handle pushes. I think adding a baneling nest with your spire would be perfect, as you already have plenty of lings and drop tech for baneling bombs. Basically it's looking a bit risky early and all-in-ish later, so I'm trying to think of good next steps to avoid that. | ||
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Harbinger631
United States376 Posts
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Dragar
United Kingdom971 Posts
Particularly look at the game on XN though with the hydra drop; if he'd immediately counterattacked after killing all the hydras, you'd take a lot of damage. | ||
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