|
Hey TL, I have a question that has been bugging me for a few weeks now.
For the sake of writing time, please read AuR as Average Unspent Resources.
I'm a 2500 Plat Protoss player, and I've recently installed SC2Gears and started analysing my replays of games that I've lost. I have a few good practice partners that are really helping me by pointing out weaknesses in my play. For the most part, I am a very macro-oriented player, and I have trouble dealing with Drop Harassment / Small unit engagements with micro-intensive situations.
I've noticed that when I get dropped or get into a situation that requires me focusing more attention on my Micro, my resources stockpile JUST A BIT. I'm not talking about floating 2k minerals or something absurd like that, but the small window of time immediately after these given situations I will have accumulated a few too many resources. What ends up happening after this is I will warp in another round of units or start some more upgrades or perhaps add a production facility, but I will still be left with more resources then I can possibly spend. This produces almost a cascading effect that will appear maybe 5-7 minutes from the engagement where I will have even more resources that I can't spend.
For the most part, I keep my minerals / gas under 500 at ALL TIMES. However, I've noticed in the Score Summary screen from games in which these situations occur, my AuR will go up to around 1300-1500. On average, my AuR for a game in which I handle everything appropriately and my Macro / Micro is on point, my AuR will be between 600-900.
My question is this:
What are the pro level players averaging for AuR in their games? Is mine too high? I'm trying to use these statistics to analyze weaknesses in my play... and while I know where my weaknesses are, I'm trying to identify HOW weak my macro is.
TL;DR:
My AuR averages around 600-900, while games in which I am being constantly drop harassed reaches 1300-1500. Is this normal? What are high ranked Masters players AuR?
|
It really depends on the game, but I noticed that most pros have around 200-600 in games before armies are maxed. The statistic will get messed up once you start stockpiling money at 200/200 though.
|
Depends on your race and the game time.
User was sexed for this post
|
I'm not 100% certain (since I can't play the other races for shit) but I would assume this to be the case:
Terran should have the lowest amount of resources banked since you can always readily spend it by queuing up a marine at your barracks, making additional barracks, expanding, etc.
Toss will have more average amount of minerals banked because of the warp in technology that can't queue (when i say queue, i mean like queuing an additional marine just before the first one finishes, and you can afford it, not queuing 5marines on one racks just to get rid of your resources) units and spends and creates the unit instantly in one burst. This is why toss who go gateway heavy will have their resources bank up, then shoot all the way down after each warp in cycle.
Zerg wants to drone and expand as much as they can get away with. Ideally, a Zerg would want to create his entire army at the very last possible second. Zerg is also a reactionary race, once they scout mass Voidrays incoming, they want to be able to throw down that hydralisk den and pump out 10 hydras instantly, then continuously keeping their resources low on mass roach.
Needless to say, all races will bank like crazy once they hit 200/200.
edit: when you think about it, terran and toss really produce units at the same pace relative to their resources.
|
On March 11 2011 09:01 tuestresfat wrote:
I'm not 100% certain (since I can't play the other races for shit) but I would assume this to be the case:
Terran should have the lowest amount of resources banked since you can always readily spend it by queuing up a marine at your barracks, making additional barracks, expanding, etc.
Toss will have more average amount of minerals banked because of the warp in technology that can't queue (when i say queue, i mean like queuing an additional marine just before the first one finishes, and you can afford it, not queuing 5marines on one racks just to get rid of your resources) units and spends and creates the unit instantly in one burst. This is why toss who go gateway heavy will have their resources bank up, then shoot all the way down after each warp in cycle.
Zerg wants to drone and expand as much as they can get away with. Ideally, a Zerg would want to create his entire army at the very last possible second. Zerg is also a reactionary race, once they scout mass Voidrays incoming, they want to be able to throw down that hydralisk den and pump out 10 hydras instantly, then continuously keeping their resources low on mass roach.
Needless to say, all races will bank like crazy once they hit 200/200.
edit: when you think about it, terran and toss really produce units at the same pace relative to their resources.
Queuing up is bad and you shouldn't queue units up.
|
On March 11 2011 09:10 HeroHenry wrote:
Queuing up is bad and you shouldn't queue units up.
That's a pretty inaccurate statement... I used to play Terran until about 2 months ago, and in the mid-late game there is no avoiding a queue of production. How are you supposed to Macro / Micro at the same time if you have to constantly worry about production? I'm NOT talking about having a FULL queue of production, but at least 1-2 more then is being produced (from barracks) and at least 1 (from factory / starport)... I've noticed a few of my friends that play Terran as their #1 weakness is forgetting to macro their production facilities.
ON TOPIC:
I know that AuR isn't a constant variable and it greatly depends on the race and game length... but lets use this as an example:
What would the AuR of a high level Protoss masters player be if the game ends within the first 15 minutes? I can usually max an army on 2 bases (making 3rd) by the 15-16 minute mark. If the game ends during this deathball push, what should my AuR be?
This should give a more clear example of what I'm trying to figure out. Perhaps I'll find a replay to add to the OP, even though it's not so much about a specific game, more of just trying to grasp an idea of how my macro compares to the tip top masters players.
|
Unless when it is useful to queue up units.... and there are times.
|
also consider that that the avg. unspent resources include BOTH gas and minerals. so keeping your mineral/gas count below 500 for the entire game should show up as about 700-1k avg unspent resources.
|
On March 11 2011 09:17 Antisocialmunky wrote:
Unless when it is useful to queue up units.... and there are times.
Like never amiright?
|
On March 11 2011 08:44 nWong wrote:
Depends on your race and the game time.
+It also depends on what's happening in game. Chances are their resources are going to be a lot lower if they're able to do a build they practiced without interruption or if they focus less on early game micro/harass. If you watch the pros stream they do occasionally mess up and spike to about 700 min/gas.
|
If you're trying to compare your macro to top players, I think you would find a lot more value comparing one of your replays to a pro's. Try to find games where similar things happen (e.g. a 2 base protoss push that ends the game) and have the matchups & the map the same.
Look at things like, when you push how many minerals do you have? How many chronoboosts do you have ready? During the push look at if minerals are being spent. My guess is you'll notice the pros will begin producing units the moment they lose units in their big deathball push.
Looking at stuff like this will give you a much better indication at how your macro stands up to the pros than comparing AUR. Like people have said AUR is very dependent on many factors and really doesn't provide a lot of information on its own. Macro can't be placed into a single variable; it depends on a ton of its own factors that need to be analyzed on their own.
|
if you're fuckin flash, you never need to que up. but if you're human like the rest of us, queing up ONE unit is acceptable (for tier 1 shit), never que up tanks and shit, that's unacceptable.
|
Overall, the main point being made is when you're getting stacked resources is a lot more important than just the overall UAR.
In my own play, I've just noticed that I seem to stack minerals whenever I've just expanded. Sounds obvious, but I put the reasoning down to two things:
1) I usually attack when I expand, or harass. This requires APM obviously, but more importantly attention.
2) I get a large boost of income just after expanding. Again, obvious.
The conclusion and resolution I draw from this is that I have to be more active in getting up my extra production facilities after my expansion goes down. To start with, this may mean being less aggressive or performing micro intensive tricks with my army while knowing the timings for each building. After that's done, I can work on doing it all at my current speed again.
|
I always thought that average unspent resources should roughly match your income.
|
Queuing you should have at most 2 in prod. Zerg would have the most because they stockpile in order to get a flood of units like 8 mutas or a few ultras.
|
On March 11 2011 09:40 da_head wrote:
if you're fuckin flash, you never need to que up. but if you're human like the rest of us, queing up ONE unit is acceptable (for tier 1 shit), never que up tanks and shit, that's unacceptable.
I was in this 4v4 when one of my teammates queued up 5 BC's in 1 port. He only built 1 port :/
|
The problem with queuing units is that it's still an unspent resource. The money is not used until the unit begins constructing, so saying you have low aur when you have a large amount of units queued up is inaccurate.
If you are dumping minerals into queuing units, you should instead use those resources to build more production facilities
|
It really depends on the length of the game and the number of bases I'm on. Also, if I'm maxed for a while it starts stockpiling a little, so those numbers aren't all that useful imo.
It seems to me that you already know where the problem lies, so instead of trying to use those numbers to draw the same conclusion again, try to overcome that weakness. Every time you're dropped, a-move instead of trying to mico intensively, warp in another round, then micro. Should do the trick.
Otherwise, one or two more gateways should do the trick if you're on spot with warpins. That way you'll be able to spend the excess little by little until you're back at an acceptable level =)
|
Best way to go about it is,
don't que up. But don't time the 100%... It is fine to build something when the last thing is 90%~ done... That way you don't have to focus on it and you can still micro and it doesn't spend money you don't have.
|
Its never okay to queue units for any reason. You can wave your hand at it and say "well its not that important" but its ridiculous to discuss anything put perfect play in a strategy forum. Perfection is what every player needs to strive for. You might not get there, but you need to aim high. Queueing is always wrong.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
