EPTIn other words, the ling/bling tech path forces P into a position where he'll be able to defend ultras very efficiently. In my experience, making a lot of ultras is a good way to let P back into a game that he's lost.
Z v P Ling/Bling/Infestor/Ultra - Page 5
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
In other words, the ling/bling tech path forces P into a position where he'll be able to defend ultras very efficiently. In my experience, making a lot of ultras is a good way to let P back into a game that he's lost. | ||
Howl67
United States148 Posts
On March 09 2011 05:16 kcdc wrote: I think getting a couple ultras to break forcefields can be good vs P, especially if you already have the ling/bling upgrades, but I think it's a mistake to make too many. For one, when facing ling/bling, P has to cannon+simcity the crap out of all of his bases to keep them running. This means that when ultras hit the field, their pathing gets screwed up any time they try to attack into a base. Additionally, archons are one of the best units to use against ling/bling and any P with detection is at most 40 seconds away from having an immortal. Ultras are countered by archon/immortal harder than hydras are countered by collosi. In other words, the ling/bling tech path forces P into a position where he'll be able to defend ultras very efficiently. In my experience, making a lot of ultras is a good way to let P back into a game that he's lost. What do you recommend as a follow up, if any then? | ||
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abax
Norway13 Posts
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
On March 09 2011 06:27 Howl67 wrote: What do you recommend as a follow up, if any then? Make a few ultras to break forcefields, but don't over-produce them because they can be hard-countered. Ultras are great against stalker/colossus, so there's a temptation to make 15 ultras sort of like P has a temptation to make 15 colossi because they stomp roach/hydra/ling/bling so hard. But like a Protoss who makes 15 colossi will be crushed by a Zerg that gets 2 minutes to pump corruptors, a Zerg that makes 15 ultras will get crushed by a Protoss that buys time to adjust his composition. After 3-4 ultras, I think you're better off pumping resources into banelings, especially with drop tech. Broodlords are a better lategame unit than ultras, but they don't complement ling/bling well. Broodlings are redundant when you have lings, and you don't have the ranged DPS (hydras) to punish void rays and blink-unders. My short answer: banelings, more banelings, and drop tech. If they have a lot of archons, tho, you probably want to back-tech to roaches to thin out the archon numbers. At 300 gas a pop, it takes a loooong time to build up an archon count, so this shouldn't catch you by surprise. | ||
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MucK
Germany59 Posts
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
On March 09 2011 07:04 MucK wrote: mhm never had problems with archons .. they have about the same health as the colloses and they gona die hard as well but if he somehow manages to beat you back broodlords are the right choice They don't take bonus damage or much splash from ultras, so they tank really well. They have good DPS vs biological and splash lings, but against ultras, their real value is that they get in the way and don't die. | ||
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Exawn
Netherlands13 Posts
I dont know all the exact timings yet with this builds. But normaly i am on 5 base (xel naga) arround 18-20 min, when my first ultra come out. I got 2/2 upgrades, banes, 20 hydra, allot of lings, 2 infestor and then my ultra come out. And suprisly the build works pretty good against deathballs. If you see it is stalker heavy add ultra and lings If you see he have voids. add more hydra. simple. Becouse it is arround 20 min. The deathball of protoss isnt that big yet. And ultra realy do there job, destroying the forcefields. Make sure you micro the ultra on stalkers and some ultra on collusus. Dont let the ultra fight zealot. let your infestor fungal growth the ball so it can kite your ultra. This unit composition is pretty strong! Holding 4 gate with 1-3 spine and lings / banes Holding 5 gate attack with lings / banes / hydra (range upgrade) Timing attack arround 20 min with 3-5 ultra. Dont let protoss grap his 3rd. | ||
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MucK
Germany59 Posts
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
On March 09 2011 07:23 Exawn wrote: I just played arround with this build. I dont know all the exact timings yet with this builds. But normaly i am on 5 base (xel naga) arround 18-20 min, when my first ultra come out. I got 2/2 upgrades, banes, 20 hydra, allot of lings, 2 infestor and then my ultra come out. And suprisly the build works pretty good against deathballs. If you see it is stalker heavy add ultra and lings If you see he have voids. add more hydra. simple. Becouse it is arround 20 min. The deathball of protoss isnt that big yet. And ultra realy do there job, destroying the forcefields. Make sure you micro the ultra on stalkers and some ultra on collusus. Dont let the ultra fight zealot. let your infestor fungal growth the ball so it can kite your ultra. This unit composition is pretty strong! Holding 4 gate with 1-3 spine and lings / banes Holding 5 gate attack with lings / banes / hydra (range upgrade) Timing attack arround 20 min with 3-5 ultra. Dont let protoss grap his 3rd. Good luck denying P's 3rd with a 20 minute timing attack. I feel like I've lost if I'm not taking my third by 12 minutes. | ||
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Exawn
Netherlands13 Posts
My attack hits 15 min mark, 4 ultra!! Protoss 3rd just finished, then i attacked and i just crushed his whole army! He was immortal heavy at that moment, but my hydra killed it easy. 2 fungal on his army, then micro the ultra and infestor. Send reinforcements! And before i attacked i started a spire. So my second wave of units, were 15 muta and xxx lings. No way he could stop it. I just steam rolled him. | ||
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koveras
163 Posts
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Udub
9 Posts
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Psychlone
Canada90 Posts
The build is AMAZING. Thank you so much! Now Zerg has its own Deathball!!! Oh yeaaah..! I never thought you could tech so fast, but it makes sense if you don't make too many Tier 2 units and prioritize tech before upgrades. IMO the counter Protoss has to this is Blink stalkers + Storm + Archons and maybe Hallucinations since sentry energy is useless at this point. | ||
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Alphasquad
Austria505 Posts
On March 10 2011 01:58 Udub wrote: this build is weak in my opinion. How would u response to a forge first fast expo then a timing push with 1-2 voidray, zealots sentries and mass phoenix? Your infestor dont have enough energy for too many fungal considering they are gas intensive (200 gas). any extra hydra (which also mean cutting down on infestor and bane) will just get pick up by the phoenix. If you cant picture wat im talking about, im referring to AcE vs Idra in the recent IEM V. as far as i rememeber the strategy contains an evo chamber that gives you the ability to get anti-air and like all strategies this is not meant to be good vs everything against heavy air play you have adapt and change - if the protoss plays air heavy you wont play ground heavy and invest lots of resources into banelings - simply | ||
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BigDatez
Canada434 Posts
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Psychlone
Canada90 Posts
On March 10 2011 03:21 BigDates wrote: I think this, with an integration of mass queens would work really well, getting 4-5 queens up to stop vs any type of VR harass (and 1-2 spores per base vs pheonix) would fend well (obviously if he went mass vr, just start getting infsetor/hydra more) but, i still do not think a 2-base ultra is viable, its very all-inish. Once he scouts the ultra den, he can easily pop out 2-4 immortals, which will complerely wreck you (because you wont have an abundance of infestors, due to ultra's, and baneling's gas cost) so, you have to choose between the collosus (which will snipe your infestors if you dont take them over) or the immortals. With the 110 Hp buff on infestors, i can see this working alot better though i guess ^^, just thought i'd give my 2 cents. You clearly haven’t seen the replay where he mows down those 4 Immortals on Xel Naga. It’s not even a semblance of an issue. | ||
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Alphasquad
Austria505 Posts
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MucK
Germany59 Posts
and immortals wont get killed by ultras but by the 100million lings xD | ||
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ssregitoss
Turkey241 Posts
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uNtrue_
United States150 Posts
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/148394-1v1-protoss-zerg-backwater-gulch It was just mass lings with around 5-6 queens by the time my phoenix tried to harass him. I think the scary part of this strat is that he can go any tech that he chooses after getting rid of his lings, he can bling bomb me any time he wants, and well... speedlings are just so good. He then transitioned easily into ultras after he destroyed my army. Can anyone give tips on what's the correct way to respond to this? I was thinking storms and archons might be a good tech to go after spotting it but I don't think air would be good just because he can either switch to hydras or just overrun me with lings. I was thinking if I do go a Coli build, maybe I can spread my army better and place forcefields in front is what I should of done. Also, feedback on my play would be greatly appreciated. This is around 3.1k masters. Thanks. | ||
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