EPTZ v P Ling/Bling/Infestor/Ultra - Page 7
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Netto.
Poland523 Posts
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magha
Netherlands427 Posts
On March 14 2011 02:08 Netto. wrote: Hi I use this strat since you have posted it right here and everything was excellent until I got better enemies. A good P usually scouts what I do and while morphing my hive he pushes with 2-3 collosi and some gateway units and quickly own me. I cannot touch him just because of ff. What should I do? Get faster Ultras | ||
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ttQQtt
Germany50 Posts
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MucK
Germany59 Posts
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Harbinger631
United States376 Posts
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Netto.
Poland523 Posts
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MucK
Germany59 Posts
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
I'm not certain I like the hydra den though. Don't roaches feel like they might mesh better with banelings? Don't you want something that absorbs in the early/mid game rather than a DPSer since banelings are already a ton of front-loaded damage. In case of Stargate, Pit+queens is enough for air defense imo. Only need hydras added on if they're trying to make like >5 void rays or >8 phoenix. Skipping hydra den saves gas - roaches cost less, and the important upgrade (roach speed vs hydra range) is cheaper. 6gates can be stopped easily with roach-ling + a couple spines so sentries dont manhandle you. Banelings probably make this even more effective of a defense. Spines are cheap, just 1 larva+150min. Don't forget to move them as the game goes on and you have better places to put them (I like defending third/4th with them if army is hanging about the nat, or you can set up a bunch for a midgame stalling technique) Really like the idea of this playstyle, going to adapt it to hatch first (when toss doesn't manage to block your hatch) General order I want to follow with this, I'll hammer out timings in a bit: Hatch Pool Gas (15 15 17 is ideal. 14 14 16 is acceptable.) 2xqueen, Speed Banelingnest, first evo chamber 3rd queen, lair if not getting 4gated, 4 gasses, second evo chamber (Hydra den or roach warren), Banespeed, melee+carapace upgrades, third base (6 gasses immediately after third finishes) Infestation pit if not getting 6gated, followed immediately by hive Ultralisk cavern | ||
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Vaporized
United States1471 Posts
On March 16 2011 15:30 sylverfyre wrote: I get the feeling this requires pretty good creep spread in general - ultralisks tend to get manhandled if there's no creep anywhere. That noted, when should you grab the extra queen? The early lair makes it tricky to even get 2 queens. I'm not certain I like the hydra den though. Don't roaches feel like they might mesh better with banelings? Don't you want something that absorbs in the early/mid game rather than a DPSer since banelings are already a ton of front-loaded damage. In case of Stargate, Pit+queens is enough for air defense imo. Only need hydras added on if they're trying to make like >5 void rays or >8 phoenix. Skipping hydra den saves gas - roaches cost less, and the important upgrade (roach speed vs hydra range) is cheaper. 6gates can be stopped easily with roach-ling + a couple spines so sentries dont manhandle you. Banelings probably make this even more effective of a defense. Spines are cheap, just 1 larva+150min. Don't forget to move them as the game goes on and you have better places to put them (I like defending third/4th with them if army is hanging about the nat, or you can set up a bunch for a midgame stalling technique) Really like the idea of this playstyle, going to adapt it to hatch first (when toss doesn't manage to block your hatch) General order I want to follow with this, I'll hammer out timings in a bit: Hatch Pool Gas (15 15 17 is ideal. 14 14 16 is acceptable.) 2xqueen, Speed Banelingnest, first evo chamber 3rd queen, lair if not getting 4gated, 4 gasses, second evo chamber (Hydra den or roach warren), Banespeed, melee+carapace upgrades, third base (6 gasses immediately after third finishes) Infestation pit if not getting 6gated, followed immediately by hive Ultralisk cavern muck's build is very well thought out. (b)ling/hydra/spine crushes 6 gate. this is important because it allows you to kill his army while preserving most of yours, which makes your late game push stronger. roaches cant shoot up, hydras are your air defense\vr killers. plus ultra/ling tanks better then roaches, and does more dps. i think something has to be said for the supply roach vs hydra too. if i have two 175 food armies, ling/bling/ultra/infestor, but the last 30 food of each is different. one is 15 roaches and one is 15 hydras. if resources arent an issue, and collosus will not get more then a few shots off, hydras are suddenly much much better in this situation. they can shoot up, which the roach army can't do besides infested terrans, their dps and range are also higher. the range is huge, hydras stand in the back and shoot shit, roaches get bunched up and run around, or you will have one nice firing arc, but the rest run around behind them. in this unit composition, hydras play a critical role. i wouldnt replace them, especially with roaches. and hatching first zvp is a headache not worth dealing with. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
Basically, that "If colossus will not get more than a few shots off" situation is NOT something I ever want to bet on. I'll take the 15 roaches. If ANYTHING gets to do damage to your hydras for like... 1 second, you're taking losses. This holds true for holding off that 6gate - I feel more comfortable with holding off a 6gate with roaches and not hydras, particularly if I want to get through it while *preserving as much of my army as possible* | ||
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Psychlone
Canada90 Posts
On March 17 2011 00:58 sylverfyre wrote: Apparently you and I have completely different opinions on hydras. I still find them to be a terrible unit, even when you have them behind something to "tank" damage. Even when there's air units you have to deal with - I prefer dealing with those via queen and infestor. Hell, in a comp that gets ultras, getting extra queens seems glorious, because transfuse is gonna be brilliant. Basically, that "If colossus will not get more than a few shots off" situation is NOT something I ever want to bet on. I'll take the 15 roaches. If ANYTHING gets to do damage to your hydras for like... 1 second, you're taking losses. This holds true for holding off that 6gate - I feel more comfortable with holding off a 6gate with roaches and not hydras, particularly if I want to get through it while *preserving as much of my army as possible* Do the build properly and you will see that Colossi only get a few shots on Ultras that do nothing before they're chewed into tidbits. | ||
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Zoia
United States419 Posts
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Title11
United States30 Posts
http://mrbitter.blip.tv/file/4801193/ I think an important thing to note that this build requires aggressively expanding and very fast upgrades for the melee units. Mobility is how this build wins. The lings are so fast that every time he tries to push out you can really punish his expansions with lings. You win by outproducing the toss. With all the hatches up, you can make lings much faster than they can warp in sentries, and the ultras just eat collosi. Voids aren't as much of a problem as you would think, because you can kill his ground army so fast, and then clean up with hydras (or late game some corruptors). If he goes mass voids, then in essence you've already won because you've forced him to avoid the dreaded death ball and can feel much safer about producing hydras. Fear the HT, though. | ||
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Psychlone
Canada90 Posts
Also, the hydras are so amazing at defending heavy gateway pushes behind one or 2 spines. They don't care much about forcefields then. Aquanda goes Corruptors in the midgame, which is ok I guess, but he's having problems with turtling Ps, which InControl said is the adequate response vs heavy ling-bane opening. The builds are very different. Aquanda stays on Tier 1 much longer. | ||
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MucK
Germany59 Posts
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