EPTZerg relied heavily on casters in BW, and while infestors aren't defilers, I see no reason that we can't use them as a staple.
[G/D] Skipping Mutas for Infestors in ZvT - Page 3
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
Zerg relied heavily on casters in BW, and while infestors aren't defilers, I see no reason that we can't use them as a staple. | ||
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RoyaL-TigeR
59 Posts
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Orome
Switzerland11984 Posts
On February 15 2011 05:18 Zrana wrote: Were those replays all from masters league players? Seemed to be quite some mistakes made. That's completely normal. 3.1k-3.2k is very decent of course, but it's a long long way away from pro level. MrBitter, several people have pointed out that this is weak to careful tank-heavy marine tank play now. Any thoughts on that? | ||
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b0ub0u
Canada445 Posts
Wow just reading this made me want to use Infestor now! I try to avoid spellcasters as I have trouble micro-ing them. Will concentrate on this way of playing for a while and see how it goes. I guess a delayed spire with some mutas may still be an option for mineral lines harass. I did see you on your stream do it, even coaching someone on how to do it. And it was beautiful to watch  | ||
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uSnAmplified
United States1029 Posts
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MrBitter
United States2940 Posts
On February 15 2011 05:44 uSnAmplified wrote: I definitely like the idea of getting attack/armor upgrades throughout the games, i always felt my lategame ultra switches were weak because of the lack of upgrades. The Ultra/ling/bling looked incredibly scary fully upgraded,however im wondering why you 16 pool and gas late, wouldn't it be easier to get a faster lair and be safe from harass with regular 15 hatch 14 pool? 16 pool works for me. You might like 15 pool. Someone else might prefer getting speed before expanding. The beauty of a guide is that it doesn't have to be adhered to religiously.  The reason we don't rush to lair is so that we have more time to drone. Lings are really, really good... They should be able to keep you safe from MOST stuff in the early game. Again, some Terran builds force deviations. In general, though, just sit back and chill until lair finishes. By taking a little more time in getting to lair, we set our economy up a little bit better for the mid-game. That said, by all means feel free to experiment. I'm not a world-class player, and its absolutely possible (probable, in fact) that my build is not the most stream-lined. | ||
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Philo
United States337 Posts
Has anyone put thought into extra macro hatcheries and the possible ease and security in pumping drones in comparison to muta/ling/bane? | ||
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uSnAmplified
United States1029 Posts
On February 15 2011 05:50 MrBitter wrote: Sounds good thanks for replying, i just started laddering hard as zerg again and i might be grabbing lair to early overall. Probably because i feel unsafe and want detection etc16 pool works for me. You might like 15 pool. Someone else might prefer getting speed before expanding. The beauty of a guide is that it doesn't have to be adhered to religiously. The reason we don't rush to lair is so that we have more time to drone. Lings are really, really good... They should be able to keep you safe from MOST stuff in the early game. Again, some Terran builds force deviations. In general, though, just sit back and chill until lair finishes. By taking a little more time in getting to lair, we set our economy up a little bit better for the mid-game. That said, by all means feel free to experiment. I'm not a world-class player, and its absolutely possible (probable, in fact) that my build is not the most stream-lined. | ||
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ALPINA
3791 Posts
I was thinking, is that really cost effective to not make banelings until mid/late game? I mean isn't that better to always mix up few banelings in your ling army? And you can always make baneling mines if you have them. Btw I read all what you wrote about how it's too gas heavy to go mutas and infestors and then I remembered Fruitdealer in GSL1 where he in all of his ZvTs had mutas, infestors, banelings, ultras, drops... lol | ||
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MrBitter
United States2940 Posts
On February 15 2011 05:56 Alpina wrote: Very cool that you posted this build I was thinking, is that really cost effective to not make banelings until mid/late game? I mean isn't that better to always mix up few banelings in your ling army? And you can always make baneling mines if you have them. Btw I read all what you wrote about how it's too gas heavy to go mutas and infestors and then I remembered Fruitdealer in GSL1 where he in all of his ZvTs had mutas, infestors, banelings, ultras, drops... lol If you're going to be fighting marines before infestors, banes will help. In the mid-game, infestors will just straight up kill marines, so banes aren't really necessary. Why not save the gas and put it somewhere else? Once medivac numbers start climbing, banes become necessary again. | ||
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Jeffbelittle
United States468 Posts
Second: Do you think this has any place in ZvP? I tried it myself on a P going 2 gate robo, and lings/banes seemed incredibly effective against gateway-centric armies. It was even easier to break the front due to infested terrans and FG zealots out of place. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
The variation i have is 14 hatch 14 gas 13 pool, with lair as soon as pool fininshes, pretty much i get infestors about 2-3 minutes game time faster, and get maybe 1-3 drones less by the same point in time(which means you catch up quickly once infestors come out) the strategy in the mid game is roughly the same. except you didn't emphasize the importance of overlord and creep spread during the mid game. you can actually creep up to the opponents base by the time they have enough tanks to leave their base without dying. meaning you have 100% map control. | ||
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.Enigma.
Sweden1461 Posts
I'll definitely try this out some more. | ||
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OmniscientSC2
United States713 Posts
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b3serker
Canada11 Posts
I see why Protoss like their deathball so much now lol | ||
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ZeroTalent
United States297 Posts
Re: comments about sling/bling/infestor having less chance to harass; couldn't you use a Nydus network? You don't have to do the risky thing and put the exit(s) all the way in their base; just treat them as fast rallies to close-but-less-frequently-scouted positions: halfway down the Tasteless secret hallway on XC, near the 3rd expansions on the edge of the map on JB, etc. I saw a masters-level game on stream where Z went Speedling-Hydra-Infestor with a Nydus network, and it looked incredibly annoying to deal with from T's perspective. | ||
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freetgy
1720 Posts
Infestors can deal garanteed damage with fungal. while storm can only deal maybe 80 dmg if the terran is stupid enough to stay in it. (and still you see them crying about it) i doubt the average storm dmg is more than 40 = fungal dmg and this also is great for zerg, since you have got banelings!! and can stop any micro. | ||
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b3serker
Canada11 Posts
Since ling/bling/infestor is pretty mineral light, how about using a bit more static defense to protect against drops? I know I generally float minerals doing this (yeah bad Macro >.>) until teching to Ultras, but how about using some of the excess minerals for some extra spore/spine crawlers. I know its definitely not the elegant solution most people are looking for but any thoughts? | ||
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sicajung
United Kingdom297 Posts
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stk01001
United States786 Posts
I do love the fact that you can completely tear apart a marine/tank army head on with this build though. I may have to start using it again and just work on my defense against drops.Can't wait for Idra session, and to hear his thoughts on this style of play. Keep up the awesome work! | ||
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