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Sorrie if something similar has been posted already, but 19 pages seems a little too long to read to check.
This thread got me thinking of another strategy involving infestors. It focuses on using queens and infestors to get broodlords as your main army. I never tested this build (and I never will in the near future, my pc can't even handle Starcraft 2, and I don't own it), but from watching Day9's Dailys (I know, great thought went into this!), I think there's a way to make this strategy work.
Going off of TONS of assumptions, I think a good way of doing this build is to fast hatch and not go early speed. You're gonna be spending your money on queens, not lings, so it's just a waste of time and resources.
You want to rush to lair, and sometime while getting it, you NEED to plant all 4 geysers down, because Infestors and broodlords are expensive on gas (NO WAY!).
If you watch RootCatz in the Day9 Funday Monday involving Mass Queens, the way he gets queens seems pretty ideal from what I know. He doesn't spend much gas, and all the larvae can be spent on drones (THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT!). Also, the queens can be used in the early/mid game to spread creep, so map control can actually be considered an advantage of this strategy. When you get infestors, they can take out tanks, thors, Colossi, Immortals (I haven't really thought of which race this would be best against), and queens can annihilate air. When nearing battle, just make tons of zerglings if needed. One thing to note is that the Evo Chamber melee attack increases the attack on broodlings, so getting an Evo Chamber for the zerglings in the early/mid game is not at all wasted.
Rushing Hive seems ideal, and while doing so, going double spire (one for the broodlords, the other for upgrades). Once you get to broodlords, you can throw away your infestors (not literally, but keeping them alive should be the third priority. Queens should be first, for their transfusion, and broodlords should be kept alive by the queens.).
This build might just be in theory (I never saw a queen - queen/infestor - queen/broodlord), but I think it can be refined into a legitimate strategy. If anyone cares to try it, please do.
TL;DR: Going mass queens, rushing lair, getting infestors, rushing hive, getting broodlords. If you want to, test it.
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Just a question of curiosity, would this idea of Infestor Ling go well with the Ice Fisher (Spanishiwa's) build? And how would it be implemented in such a build?
In that particular build, gas is late, but 4 queens and around 30+ drones are already up, plus some spine crawlers for defense?\
And here's a link: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=207017
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On April 10 2011 19:20 MuffinCookie wrote:Just a question of curiosity, would this idea of Infestor Ling go well with the Ice Fisher (Spanishiwa's build? And how would it be implemented in such a build? In that particular build, gas is late, but 4 queens and around 30+ drones are already up, plus some spine crawlers for defense?\ And here's a link: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=207017
Yes! Absolutely. That's exactly how I've been playing this build lately.
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I really like this build, vileSpanishiwa did a very similar strategy in his game versus (the now former) RootKitty on Shurkeurus Plateau and it worked very, very well. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qD91shEd6eQ&feature=channel_video_title)
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+3 extractors (with the 9 drones) immediate +1+1 and infestation pit sounds like you're opening a HUGE timing on yourself
also OP doesn't say anything about spine crawlers but dimaga got a lot of them and artosis in that cast said you're supposed to get a lot of them at your bases to stop drops.. have you messed around with that?
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I've been doing this recently but I still prefer muta ling bling. I just dont like how vulnerable you are when your getting your 1-2 infestors out initially and you still need the pathogen glands upgrade.
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I would think somewhere in between infestors and muta would be ideal. You need the map control of the muta but the defensive power of the infestor and the only dead weight is really the drone->tech structure costs.
They don't need to pop out with full energy. Like the defensive Roach Warren, you can can a few blings and a muta or two to pop 1-2 infestors out and let them sit. I mean, imagine catching a marine/tank army with fungal and having the muta to scream in and snipe the tanks.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
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On April 11 2011 05:57 Antisocialmunky wrote:
I would think somewhere in between infestors and muta would be ideal. You need the map control of the muta but the defensive power of the infestor and the only dead weight is really the drone->tech structure costs.
They don't need to pop out with full energy. Like the defensive Roach Warren, you can can a few blings and a muta or two to pop 1-2 infestors out and let them sit. I mean, imagine catching a marine/tank army with fungal and having the muta to scream in and snipe the tanks.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
But then, the pros would outweigh the cons if you just chose one tech path to start with;
-If you chose to tech to Mutalisks, you would be able to assert ABSOLUTE map control, and force static defenses so they can deal with harassment
-Mutalisks allow us to bridge the gap in ECONOMY; we kill workers, and if we can, we scout/shut down tech
-Later you can get an Infestation Pit to tech up to Hive and have a stronger standing army
-If you chose to tech to Infestors first, you give up map control, but you would have a stronger standing army
-Also, you can do some sneaky burrow harass with Infested Terrans and Fungal Growth to wipe out entire mineral lines. And it's fun to watch ;D
-Infestors allow us to bridge the gap in ARMY; with the abilities of the Infestor (Spawn Infested Terran, Fungal Growth, Neural Parasite), we are given the leeway to engage our enemies head-on and cost-effectively trade armies
-Later, you can get a Spire in order to transition into Mutalisks, because your opponent won't be expecting them OR you can get Brood Lords
If you do both at the same time, you will only have a little bit of both, which is bad, because not only do you NOT have as much map control, or NOT have a stronger standing army, you won't have the economy to support BOTH at the SAME TIME; it sets you back, and anyone can kill you.
Most of my info is from MrBitter's and Spanishiwa's analysis of Infestors/Mutalisks, but correct me if I'm wrong anywhere.
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there you go mrbitter. nestea playing infestor/speedling into brut lords and crushing ensare in the gsl. maybe this strategy becomes more popular after that.
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Experimented with this style a bit and thought I'd leave a comment:
It can certainly, 100% work, at all levels. But ...
Big BUT.
It is much harder to execute for players with low APM (<140) against opponents that know how to macro. And at higher levels, no matter how I win with this style, I'm left wondering if maybe I shouldn't have gone mutas instead for an easier win.
You CAN control drops with infestor play, but it's harder than using mutas. You CAN put pressure on with infestor play, but it's harder than with mutas. You CAN interfere with tank lines with infestors, but again, it's just not 'strictly better' than with muta play, and it's always always less mobile and versatile.
Just my opinion, it's a style a tournament player should be able to crack out in a series, but it's a toy build for most other circumstances.
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5 star necro. Man this thread sure brings back some memories from when I did this every single game, good times.
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Destiny does this exact style with upgrades coming after ling speed then lair with no mutas. Ling/infestor/brood lord. Im worried about your BO with an extremely late spawning pool which will prove hard to defend 2rax with.
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On April 11 2011 01:07 SlapMySalami wrote:
+3 extractors (with the 9 drones) immediate +1+1 and infestation pit sounds like you're opening a HUGE timing on yourself
You shouldn't assume he does this against all terran ranges.
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I really think this is becoming the standard in zvt. The ground army doesnt actually die in a straight up fight to the terran one.
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On July 12 2011 18:37 baudusau wrote:
there you go mrbitter. nestea playing infestor/speedling into brut lords and crushing ensare in the gsl. maybe this strategy becomes more popular after that.
To be fair, ensnare is hardly worthwhile opposition
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On July 12 2011 18:37 baudusau wrote:
there you go mrbitter. nestea playing infestor/speedling into brut lords and crushing ensare in the gsl. maybe this strategy becomes more popular after that.
Did he open infestors or just went after them in the late game?
I love to play opening infestors but its a pain in the ass when the map makes it easy to drop.
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On July 12 2011 21:26 Sbrubbles wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 18:37 baudusau wrote:
there you go mrbitter. nestea playing infestor/speedling into brut lords and crushing ensare in the gsl. maybe this strategy becomes more popular after that. Did he open infestors or just went after them in the late game? I love to play opening infestors but its a pain in the ass when the map makes it easy to drop.
He opened infestors. But nestea dealt with drops by spining his mineral lines and connecting his bases with creep so speedligns get back in time.
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Marauders/Hellion/Thor/ghost with +1-2 armor upgrade shut this down on 2 base terran timing 
If u mass infestors and lings = terran builds more ghosts + hellions
if u mass roaches + infestors= u mass maraduers, sprinkle ghosts and thors in and blueflame hellis.
if u mass infestor baneling ling = mass blueflame hellion, ghost, thor
all with 1-2 armor upgrade off 2 base
Terran will harass u with 2rax marine push, or blueflame hellions, in which u wont have a lot of defense early.
And Terran will deny your 3rd, before u get it up, with a 2base timing
Marauders = good against banelings and infestor, due to soaking of fungal + splash
Hellions = insane light dmg, can be massed against lings, bglings and even infestors, to flank them
Thor = soak up dmg, and deal with roaches, especially with armor upgrade and scvs repairing
ghosts= EMP's infestors and snipes them before they get fungal off or NP
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On July 12 2011 21:26 Sbrubbles wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 18:37 baudusau wrote:
there you go mrbitter. nestea playing infestor/speedling into brut lords and crushing ensare in the gsl. maybe this strategy becomes more popular after that. Did he open infestors or just went after them in the late game? I love to play opening infestors but its a pain in the ass when the map makes it easy to drop.
it was close air! and ensare did some drops. nestea had one spine at his expos and one infestor. he fungaled alot of drop ships. he went fast lair und instant infestor pit. he didnt build one muta or one banling the whole game.
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I have tried it always because I feel going both muta and infestors are way too much gas intensive.
The problem with it is that there is a huge problem of lack of dealing with tanks positioned on high grounds (lifted by medivacs).
I know you could deal with it by using overlord to gain sight and then pop some infested terran or just neural parasite it but not always would you have overlord around close enough
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EPT
