EPT[G/D] Skipping Mutas for Infestors in ZvT - Page 18
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GreatestThreat
United States631 Posts
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MrBitter
United States2940 Posts
On March 11 2011 06:54 GreatestThreat wrote: The health buff was just revoked in the re-opened PTR... Along with the missile cast! Instant cast is back, baby. Mr Bitter, think Infestors are still viable with this change? Cautiously optimistic... Still not sure how drops are supposed to be dealt with, but after watching Losira's games I'm feeling like I can continue to practice this style without feeling like mutas are a must have in every single game. | ||
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GreatestThreat
United States631 Posts
I don't want to have to make muta's every game either, but I don't want to feel like they're useless if I go with infestors instead. The new patch seems like an awesome compromise between the two. | ||
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mati
Argentina114 Posts
Marines should die so fast to 2 FG (the 4 seconds one), that medivacs shouldnt be able to heal them, marauderer can be keep busy with lings... meanwhile the mutas beign definding the "other" base will have time to come back and defend this one, and so on for each expansion. I saw your replays (and idra's), pretty cool style. And you could spare the extra gas here and there on the mid game, it shouldnt be so big of a sacrifice | ||
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MrBitter
United States2940 Posts
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Hambone636
United States62 Posts
The standard for terran is tank/rine Tanks will still roast infestors before fungal gets off If the terran goes mech - fungal is useless - infestors will die before they get in range, and tanks are usually spread and thors have so much health 46 is barely a scratch Unless there is something I am not thinking of, I don't think the metagame will shift away from muta The change really effects ZvZ I haven't really seen any interesting ZvP infestor use yet | ||
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0c3LoT
Canada162 Posts
However, thus far it's only been effective because most T are reluctant to bring out Ghosts (Tank>Ghost being the reasoning) when they see Infestors. It should be interesting to see more prevalent Ghost/Infestor play in ZvT now. Hopefully it opens a viable path into nuke play, which I find can be very strong against Z. | ||
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SlapMySalami
United States1060 Posts
On March 23 2011 16:08 MrBitter wrote: So I'm thinking it might be time to revisit this... on sotg iNcontroL was saying ?sheth? trolololed over whoever he was playing in practice just by making infestors he said he was just practicing casting games and all he could do was laugh at how fast the marines died | ||
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GreatestThreat
United States631 Posts
On March 23 2011 16:29 Hambone636 wrote: I honestly don't know if the change will be that big for ZvT The standard for terran is tank/rine Tanks will still roast infestors before fungal gets off If the terran goes mech - fungal is useless - infestors will die before they get in range, and tanks are usually spread and thors have so much health 46 is barely a scratch Unless there is something I am not thinking of, I don't think the metagame will shift away from muta The change really effects ZvZ I haven't really seen any interesting ZvP infestor use yet I keep hearing people say this but if you charge the siege line with all your lings and THEN fungal, the tanks are going to be firing at zerglings, not infestors. It's really not any different than using banelings, just make sure you get a good positioning and don't send the infestors in alone, they're a support unit for the lings, and the double DPS only makes them much, much better in that capacity. | ||
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Venomsflame
United States613 Posts
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honey_badger
Djibouti46 Posts
Only 25 energy for 50-100 splash damage? | ||
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Zorkmid
4410 Posts
I'd suggest that the other be a few mutas to deal with drops/banshees. The new infestors are terribad vs drops and banshees. | ||
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theMarkovian
Netherlands183 Posts
In the late midgame, you need Mutas to stop drops, but 6-8 is all you need to defend, as long as you stick them on defensive duty (not that much baseharass). Spire also opens up my lategame transition: broodlords. Because of the ease of Viking production, Broodlords were supotimal siege busters in 1.2, but Infestors kill Viking blobs in 3 Fungals now! With some Corruptors or the leftover mutas as support, Broodlords are very hard to deal with now. And I love the melee upgrades for my Broodlings  On maps where your third is far away from your second/main, you might want to go Muta before Infestor, as stopping drops is a lot harder in those circumstances. I tried a broodwar-esque small amount of mutas (for map control, and to keep the terran at home for a bit) to buy time for infestor/broodlord (which function as lurker/guardian), everything supported by quick cracklings that can take on the terran straight up or backstab easily. Problem is that mutas or much worse in taking on early marine groups than in brood war. Stupid stacking marines  | ||
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Sbrubbles
Brazil5775 Posts
1) Stopping drops isn't that hard provided you have good overlord spread (and hell otherwise). I think it's going to become more important for Terrans in the future to use vikings to deny overlord spread. Maybe this will make having more queens and a better creep spread more important in order to be able to kill these vikings outside your base (perhaps this may prompt a small muta transition as well on maps with lots of open air). 2) Burrow (mainly for infestors) isn't simple to use, but is very good to initiate an engagement. If he has faltered in detection and you managed to get some infestors near the sieged tanks, throw 4-5 infested terrans near his marines and rush in immediatly with your lings. Then unburrow, FG and more infested terrans. 3) At least for me, this build allows enough gas for drops very early. Throw some 16 lings in his base the second he moves out for the lolz (put 8 of these lings near his barracks/factories and the rest at the mineral line). Also, infestor drops are awsome (two 150 energy infestors are almost guaranteed to kill at least 10 SCVs). 4) If he hasn't kept up in upgrades, you will win as soon as ultras with armor are out. Simple as that (heck, it doesn't even matter if he's turtling, since you can just doom drop his main). I have a feeling Terrans are gonna want to transition OUT of pure marine/tank/medivac given how powerful infestor/ling is against it. The hardest thing, in my opinion, is maintaining your macro, since lings are so damn larva innefective! I've done games with 2-3 macro hatches and 1-2 bases more than I needed because of the crazy resource buildup (until, of course you reach ultras). On a side note, I remember a custom map which was regular SC2 except with some small changes. One of them was a 150/150 lair upgrade that made lings twice as expensive, took 50% longer to build, but 4 popped out instead of 2. Meaning 4 lings would take only 1 larva to make (though they took 50% longer). | ||
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magha
Netherlands427 Posts
This is an interesting high level replay of someone going very infestor heavy, being succesful with it, and then failing against Bombers drops. | ||
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spacebarbarian
United States70 Posts
On March 24 2011 04:47 GreatestThreat wrote: I keep hearing people say this but if you charge the siege line with all your lings and THEN fungal, the tanks are going to be firing at zerglings, not infestors. It's really not any different than using banelings, just make sure you get a good positioning and don't send the infestors in alone, they're a support unit for the lings, and the double DPS only makes them much, much better in that capacity. This. people keep talking about infestors being too fragile against siege lines. Well so are banelings, and they are a lot riskier since a successful attack involves losing them, whereas you get to keep your infestors in some cases. The fact that this build frees up so much gas for grabbing early upgrades is crucial, with armor and a good two pronged attack you can easily get to the middle of a siege line and completely open up the T for those deadly fungals (especially when you have creep spread to help). | ||
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Smurfz
United States327 Posts
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Jermstuddog
United States2231 Posts
The best part of this guide is the emphasis on double evo ups lings. as long as you're dumping enough gas to keep them relevant, lings are where's its in ZvT. | ||
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spacebarbarian
United States70 Posts
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Chinesewonder
Canada354 Posts
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