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Don't like this build at all. Lost three matches because of it that I should have won.
Putting money in vikings leaves you open to muta harass, and losing a few overseers isn't a big deal. And even if you can kill a few queens... just don't see the point.
Hellions can be ok but you're just going to lose map control after they get speedlings.
Both units require tons of micro to make effective, and leaves you open to tons of counters. You should be putting that time into upgrading your marines, getting tanks, and medivacs.
But the main problem is the push itself. A few banes, or roaches and all your tank support dies, vikings are too weak, and then you're screwed.
It's just too all'iny and too dependent on the zerg playing like crap. Maybe I just don't have the build down but I feel the uber ups is far superior and more secure.
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Your playing 3000 zergs, id advise you not to do that at 3500 + :3
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On February 22 2011 04:26 Bio0rMech wrote: Your playing 3000 zergs, id advise you not to do that at 3500 + :3 You don't at ALL have to stick to the build.
Against better zergs, I make 6 hellions, and a medic before I swap the port onto the factory, and 2 quick vikings, land expo, and drop 4 marines 2 hellions, snipe outlaying OLs, and drop my 2 vikings and little force to snipe queens and drones, and most times, MOST TIMES, I can get away with a dead queen, and 3-6 drones, easy, with minimal loses. After I drop the expo, I get another fac with reactor, and another rax with a tech lab for stim, reactor'ed hellions.
If they invest in heavy muta force, you just have to keep marines alive, which at ~13 minutes isn't impossible with 10+ hellions with BF, 2-4 medics, 20 or so marines 3-5 tanks, 4-6 vikings, and a slew of SCVs.
It's not game ending, but most times I secure a safe 3rd while denying and killing their third. From there, it's get 2-3 thors and just react well.
But the main problem is the push itself. A few banes, or roaches and all your tank support dies, vikings are too weak, and then you're screwed.
It's just too all'iny and too dependent on the zerg playing like crap. Maybe I just don't have the build down but I feel the uber ups is far superior and more secure. It's not a 100% game winning strategy. If you don't hit at a certain time BEFORE mutas pop and bane speed hits, then yes you should lose. There's a reason I hit so early. And if they do indeed go roach heavy, I'd hope you could see that with the vikings and hellions and safely take your second and churn out more tanks?
Maybe that's just me.
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Yeah found another way this build fails hard. 9 minute early mutas. hahaha.
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On February 22 2011 12:03 Fedor wrote: Yeah found another way this build fails hard. 9 minute early mutas. hahaha. ...wow really? Serious question here -- are you trolling or what??
You're telling me a zerg getting 'fast' mutas out, which means an early lair, and fewer banelings so mainly zerglings will beat a reactor'ed barracks?
Vikings 1- should kill SO many overlords if he goes fast lair, because it means less ability to make more queens. 2 - should be able to harass on the ground rampantly.
Unless the zerg chokes up and makes 4-5 spine crawlers, there's not a chance fast mutas would handle the push, unless you botch up every harass and get nailed by a few banelings.
I'd love to see the replay, because I doubt you swap or land things anywhere near the correct time if, I'd say, 7 max mutas gives you trouble with 10-15 marines and 4+ vikings...?
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Have you thought of getting a tech lab on your barracks and rocket paw instead of a reactor? You can build some marauders with conc for drops to make the sniping ganking much easier.
Basically just swap your ordering of your add-ons to R T R instead of R R T. Directly swap your factory to a tech lab instead of building it.
Gets you supply marginally faster, gives you more queen sniping ability, and faster blue flame and tanks.
I suppose if you were really creative, you could time your refineries to get you just enough gas to get stim. I've toyed with a 1 base timing push that grabs you blue flame and stim but I keep getting gas starved. Maybe someone else can figure it out?
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It SEEMS that you could shut down the hellion harrass (no blue flame!) with speedlings, and that you'll lose 2~3 overlords to vikings but mutas will be up shortly after, and could easily catch all your vikings way out of position if you get greedy. I can't watch replays at the moment, but i'll get back to you on it.
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I really like the build, allthough it is very difficult for me to execute everything properly (mid plat level). In the beginning i was just too slow with it, spent to long time harassing with vikings and that really hurt me. Now i make a quick pass with them try to get what i can and then go back to repair and attack.
I don't have much to add theory wise since i have still to properly execute this build even once, but my experience is that fast mutas are really one of the easiest things you can meet, at the time of the push they just have to little units too stop you.
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I (Plat - Z) faced a bronze Terran yesterday in a custom game with this build. I was so suprised and catched totally offguard. Hellions without blueflame are easy defended with a spine and a queen. Hunting Vikings are not that much of a deal. But landing beyond the mineral line was pretty awesome. Never expected that. I won the match because of better macro, but with good macro and a bit of micro that build works pretty good against Zerg. At least till zergs know whats coming. ( And for now its 2 Rax or hellions...)
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