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bebe01
Korea (South)512 Posts
On February 12 2011 15:47 Amarth wrote: zealots? yes. chargelots supported by sentries and stalkers sniping hellions? no. l2micro. chargelots still get roasted im sorry but theyre there as a mineral dump/tank like the hellion | ||
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Amarth
United States22 Posts
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Leaky
United States176 Posts
yeah most of your lots will die, but thats what they're for. 8 hellions at 8:30 means the rest of his force is going to be pretty weak. one or two tanks and less than ten marines tops. you should win that fight if you micro well enough. I think you're right actually, this goes back to what I said about 1 base protoss. I don't think pushing with your initial force is a good idea if you see the protoss 1 basing, you should hang back for a bit and wait till blue flame + siege mode. When you get those however, the chargelots will not be a problem as your hellions can shoot them and run back to the tank line. A good number of siege tanks in siege mode actually decimates the protoss army, especially with marine + hellion support for dps. | ||
YarNhoj
United States69 Posts
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afk4lifez
United States44 Posts
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cynslack
United States3 Posts
On February 13 2011 04:46 YarNhoj wrote: I've been plying with a 2 factory build for the last week or so. I've been getting two marines then a reactor on my first rax. Drop a techlab on the first factory and begin researching siege. Your second factory gets swapped with your rax to support double hellion. I think the big thing is the expansion timing which has to come after the second factory. @ the 7 minute mark you have something like 8 marines 3ish hellions and a couple of tanks with siege. If you push and expand your second base will let you support the factories, a starport. (for blue flame hellion dropping and medivacs.) and an additional rax. I'm still toying with how to properly swap things around between the addons. With double hellion production you quickly get up a good number of them. I'm considering swapping the fac to a techlab after the expansion for double thor or tank while putting a rax on the reactor. The video doesn't spend a lot of time in Sjow's base, but it appears that after his initial push and expand he built 2 more factories (for a total of 4) and even gets tech labs on them both. The game doesn't go long enough to see the side effects of trying to support 3 tech and 1 react factories off of two bases, but I think that could get interesting without taking a 3rd rather quickly. | ||
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Leaky
United States176 Posts
On February 13 2011 05:00 cynslack wrote: The game doesn't go long enough to see the side effects of trying to support 3 tech and 1 react factories off of two bases, but I think that could get interesting without taking a 3rd rather quickly. What do you mean interesting? You can definitely support 4 factories off 2 bases. You can take a third as soon as you feel it's safe and you'll be fine, the only thing you'll have to worry about is anti air. | ||
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Bommes
Germany1226 Posts
On February 13 2011 05:00 cynslack wrote: The game doesn't go long enough to see the side effects of trying to support 3 tech and 1 react factories off of two bases, but I think that could get interesting without taking a 3rd rather quickly. Actually you can support 4 factories on 2 base, but only if they are fully saturated. Also you have to mix in at least some hellions on your 3rd tech lab factory after 1 or 2 tanks because you don't really have enough gas to get blue flame early and tanks from 3 factories immediately afterwards. Also you have to be aggressive shortly afterwards because you will lack AA and can't really support another starport without a 3rd base if you want to continue producing tanks. But a 4 factory mid game push is quite deadly against most protoss ground forces if you siege up at good locations from my experience. Haven't done it for a while though, I prefer getting 3 factories, a faster 3rd, a starport and more turrets to get into the real late game with Tank/Hellion/Thor/Viking and eventually 1 or 2 ghosts, which is a really good unit combination. Hellions are just really versatile in the late game from my experience, they are devastating against zealots, HTs and sentries and you can poke everywhere and will almost every game get at least some into a mineral line somewhere, if protoss gets 3+ bases. It also forces them to get 3 or 4 cannons at each of there bases or they will lose a lot of probes for granted. | ||
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cynslack
United States3 Posts
On February 13 2011 05:25 Leaky wrote: What do you mean interesting? You can definitely support 4 factories off 2 bases. You can take a third as soon as you feel it's safe and you'll be fine, the only thing you'll have to worry about is anti air. I had econ support concerns, but also that you would be fairly committed to mech and anti air as you noted would be an issue. I've never had success with thors against VR. Thanks for verifying that 2 base would comfortably support 4 factories. Also, thanks for your comments as well Bommes. | ||
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Amarth
United States22 Posts
On February 13 2011 01:57 Leaky wrote: I think you're right actually, this goes back to what I said about 1 base protoss. I don't think pushing with your initial force is a good idea if you see the protoss 1 basing, you should hang back for a bit and wait till blue flame + siege mode. When you get those however, the chargelots will not be a problem as your hellions can shoot them and run back to the tank line. A good number of siege tanks in siege mode actually decimates the protoss army, especially with marine + hellion support for dps. if he gets siege also thats pretty huge. if i sense my opponent committing to heavy factory production, im gonna get charge and blink, and drop a stargate for a few phoenix so i can neutralize his tanks when i decide to engage. | ||
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dohgg
310 Posts
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heyyouyesyou
United States323 Posts
You really have to have perfect macro in a mech heavy play, one supply block sets you back a tank which could be the matter of life and death. | ||
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PhiliBiRD
United States2643 Posts
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MeowMeowMeow
8 Posts
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XXXSmOke
United States1333 Posts
Chargelots>>>good against mech Blink Stalks>>>decent agaisnt mech Immortals>>>>gods of destorying any mech build Phoenix>>>>>>>>>>Great for hurting tanks Void Ray>>>>>>>>> Stops all thors dead in their tracks(this is huge, mech in SC1 was quite succesful because the scout was shit. Now toss actully have an air to ground attack that is extremely deadly) It just seems to me that protoss is designed to counter mech. | ||
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Johnranger-123
United Kingdom341 Posts
On February 14 2011 02:27 XXXSmOke wrote: I like the idea of mech vs Toss, but when you think about it Chargelots>>>good against mech Blink Stalks>>>decent agaisnt mech Immortals>>>>gods of destorying any mech build Phoenix>>>>>>>>>>Great for hurting tanks Void Ray>>>>>>>>> Stops all thors dead in their tracks(this is huge, mech in SC1 was quite succesful because the scout was shit. Now toss actully have an air to ground attack that is extremely deadly) It just seems to me that protoss is designed to counter mech. hellions>>>>good against zealots blink stalkers>>>> close up thors deal with them nicely getting there tank splash also does a lot of damage immortals>>>> 1 ghost ruins your day Voidray>>>>> marine(early game) or viking(late game) will deal with voids It seems to me that there are counters for each unit by each race. interesting... I will play around with this build after I find a few replays ^^ | ||
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PredY
Czech Republic1731 Posts
i use it on xelnaga caverns from time to time but differently. going reactor barax first, take second gas before first factory and also get blue flame, you get a lot of marines so you dont die vs voidrays, you can push fast expanding protoss with 3tank about 12 marines and rallying hellions and usually win. if youre good enough and can see if something's up and expect DTs and get turrets then you can use this, but the expand is REALLY late so as every 1base build, quite risky obviously stargate voidray or phoenix are the best openings vs this, probably blink as well but it's really fun because it reminds me of bw | ||
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KaiserJohan
Sweden1808 Posts
Also should've cancelled that expo when he saw SjoW moving out with his army. I definately think a typical 1gate FE build with lots of gateway units would rape that push and also be ahead in econ. | ||
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TheSaddestPanda
United States61 Posts
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dohgg
310 Posts
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