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On February 14 2011 06:30 Amarth wrote:
any time my opponent spends sniping my phoenix is time for my lots to get all over him. and chargelot/phoenix is no more gas-heavy than fast ghosts.
AUGcodon - if you dont spot the academy by ~5:00 you failed at scouting.
The first marine comes out and denies scouting before five minutes, the observer does not come out until six minutes at best. i still stick by my theory that you are only interested in being right, to the point where you are willing to make things up. At least try and make your lies sound believable dood.
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the window is much larger than you seem to think. so what if he gets a factory up? hes still vulnerable while his mech count is low, and im going to be poking constantly so he has to keep producing marines. as soon as i have legs and enough phoenix to grav every ghost and tank on the field, i go.
i dont have a replay because 95% of terrans on the ladder dont have the balls to do a ghost open. but ive walked right over it a couple times with this approach. how about instead of sitting there going "bawww show me a replay" you just try it.
still a scouting fail Gecko. if he doesnt wall in you should poke with your first units, plus a probe to scan his base. if he does wall, you should be opening stargate anyway, or you can just research hallucinate.
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On February 14 2011 06:44 Amarth wrote:
the window is much larger than you seem to think. so what if he gets a factory up? hes still vulnerable while his mech count is low, and im going to be poking constantly so he has to keep producing marines. as soon as i have legs and enough phoenix to grav every ghost and tank on the field, i go.
i dont have a replay because 95% of terrans on the ladder dont have the balls to do a ghost open. but ive walked right over it a couple times with this approach. how about instead of sitting there going "bawww show me a replay" you just try it.
My problem with you not posting replays is that you outright lie to people, so if i do not have replays of any of this then i can assume that you are full of it.
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im done talking to you Gecko, youre a fool who is completely incapable of generating original thought. youre never going to excel at this game until you learn to think outside of the box.
User was temp banned for this post.
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Russian Federation798 Posts
I dont know what Armath is trying to say here. Even if Phoenix chargelot is strong vs marine ghost you need to have 3 gate stargate blindly to get that comp without knowing what the terran is doing. You definitely cant get a robo in there for an obs.
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On February 14 2011 06:48 Amarth wrote:
im done talking to you Gecko, youre a fool who is completely incapable of generating original thought. youre never going to excel at this game until you learn to think outside of the box.
I'm still waiting for those replays that are going to prove how foolish i am.
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are you people illiterate?
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On February 14 2011 06:48 Amarth wrote:
im done talking to you Gecko, youre a fool who is completely incapable of generating original thought. youre never going to excel at this game until you learn to think outside of the box. God forbid he posts legitimate scout timings to disprove your ridiculous theories. Theirs a difference between creativity and being stubborn. Replays are solid proof you dont have, making snide remarks like below only bring discredit to yourself.On February 14 2011 06:44 Amarth wrote:
how about instead of sitting there going "bawww show me a replay" you just try it.
But i don't know why i bother arguing with you, everything you post is based on this idea that you have an infallible strategy that no amount of legitimate evidence to the contrary can disprove. If you had legitimate evidence like replays or something beyond your ridiculous theory of your own perfection i could take you seriously.
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well then its a good thing i dont really give a fuck how seriously you take me. i know my strategy works, and if you're too close-minded to consider it, well, thats too bad for you.
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Bratok's solution is a bunker at the ramp. Bunker usually mean cloak banshee or raven banshee push. Most people's response is usually a robo at this point which is going to throw off the timing for your attack.
Hallucination is still not going to come fast enough, your tech choice should already be chosen by the time warp gate finish. Please don't tell me you are going to research hallucination before warp-gate.
I will concede there will be vulnerability in the transition phase. I think simcity with Fact, rax and bunkers will help migate that. Chances are SCVs need to be brought in. if your attack is held off, Terran basically wins because you just did an all-in.
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On February 14 2011 07:02 Amarth wrote:
well then its a good thing i dont really give a fuck how seriously you take me. i know my strategy works, and if you're too close-minded to consider it, well, thats too bad for you. You are either a troll or really full of yourself over a strategy you apparently never use and don't have replays for. Not sure but either way you at least managed to make a jerk out of yourself 
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On February 14 2011 07:02 Amarth wrote:
well then its a good thing i dont really give a fuck how seriously you take me. i know my strategy works, and if you're too close-minded to consider it, well, thats too bad for you.
It's seems you found your way here from the public battle net forums to fill this thread with meaningless "but if", "but then", "yea but if" posts that contribute nothing but annoy people who try and read through it and derail the discussion. Please get banned soon.
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@Gecko Weren't you originally talking about ghosts with mech when he suggested the phoenix chargelot opening? How did that morph into the old Bratok marine ghost opening?
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why would i be banned for providing thoughtful discourse on how to deal with a build?
it seems this board is just as full of mindless groupthink as bnet.
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On February 14 2011 07:09 GoonSack wrote:
@Gecko Weren't you originally talking about ghosts with mech when he suggested the phoenix chargelot opening? How did that morph into the old Bratok marine ghost opening?
I originally had suggested trying to open with ghost marine into expo to hold all-ins and then transition to factory play before the thread got derailed into this  . The idea was that its a safe build that gives you good gas and ghosts complement mech anyways.
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Right now back to the discussion.
After a marine ghost opening, What are the options?
I am leaning toward 2 fact 1 port. There is going to be a turtle phase where you get blue flame and siege mode. after that, blue flame drops and harass can wrestle away the map control from toss. The port also helps with retaining some air control so toss's phoenix count won't go overboard. From there a third expand would go up. Not quite sure what will happen after this.
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I'm really liking this style, I'll have to check it out. I think against someone that KNOWS your doing this though if they can hide 3-5 void rays and then attack you there isn't really anything that can be done. Remember 1 void ray beats 1 thor as well, so you'd have to have a decent amount of turrets or marines with stim and/or combat shields.
edit- you'd need a critical mass of voids, otherwise I think with the amount of marines that show builds (10) you wont be able to finish them off.
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This build is a 2fact build guys, NOT a ghost opening.
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Im not to sure why everyone is arguing about ghosts for this build, sjow didnt get ghosts.
Not that a ghost would be bad its just i would need four gases for me to make ghosts flow into the mech play nicely so its kind of a mid-late game strategy imo. I usually get ghosts after i get my 3 Factories down i take the reactor off the barracks and give it to the factory and make a tech lab on my barracks and a ghost accademy then go ghost/ hellion/tank/thor.
Mech play i feel is strong against protoss because that many tanks force a chargelot/pheniox/sentry style of play which i feel is weak against marine/blue hellion.
So protoss needs to produce a perfect balance to fight your army or they will get cleaned up.
And even if you trade armies you can then just focus on macro and scouting producing nonstop.
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I can't stand to reason how this post got so off topic, but back to the main point.
I've been laddering a bit recently with this build and it seems to work pretty well, on most maps however, I cannot see a tank push work as it did in the posted match of Sjow's. The one benefit of the build is the ingrained defense early tanks provide, paired with the mobility and harass capability of hellions. In fact, hellions are pretty kick ass against most toss who usually blind counter bio if you deny scouting and know how to fake them out long enough for their robo to pop. By this time I usually add in a SP instead of the fast 2 factories off of my expand. The reason for this is to prevent the mobility of a later Protoss army with warp-ins and stalkers to avoid them from ruining hellion play.
Medvacs grant great mobility, and if you're using mech, you have to have some way to stay active with harass, or else Protoss gets a death ball up and eventually marches in your door. I find the games I lose running a 2 fac opening, I either failed to scout a 3 gate void or just stop poking with hellions and rines. If you don't win or seriously damage your opponent when you push out, it's easy to go into uber turtle terran mode and just sit on 2 base while trying not to die. As long as you keep harassing and incorporate the inevitable ghosts to weaken immortals, this build sets you up for a pretty good late game.
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EPT
