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As a terran player i look on the positive side of creativity. Now ghost will actually have a place in the terran army in tvz, which may provoke more tactical play including nukes 
And I definitely think the future of zerg includes more than a queen a hatch and 1 spreading creep, early game can be actually be the key to stopping the dreaded 4 gate push PvZ and can help spread creep super fast. Late game combo with (Day9 daily viewership) "beefy" units
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On February 04 2011 11:10 Skinnyowllegs wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2011 11:02 iChau wrote:On February 04 2011 10:58 Skinnyowllegs wrote:On February 04 2011 10:51 PepperoniPiZZa wrote:
Did you know that there already exist zerg army compositions that are very hard to beat? The problem is getting there. It's so hard to tech to ultras under constant aggression, massing queens while achieving the tech is ludicrous. Certainly, at your level, where absolutely nothing happens in the early and midgame, it's an achievable task but better players will roflstomp you.
Did you know that there doesnt exist a zerg army composition that are very hard to beat? Both terran and protoss has 200/200 unit comps that are unbeatable at very high lvl (masters 3200+) for zerg. But maybe "at your lvl" you dont get "roflstomped" by good players. Diamond 2800, can't get in Masters and I admit the reason is that I disconnect a lot and I lose to all fast pools (I always FE, IDGAF about losing occasional games). It ruins streaks that you need. I used protoss death balls, and I admit, it's friggin' strong. If you're just insulting my league, then please don't post in these forums. Protoss Colossi death ball is beaten by ultras or bl + speedling support, but void ray/colossi is a lot stronger, but however, can still be beaten (way hard though, not friggin' unbeatable) by large maps with 300 food push + t3 tech. I seen occasional replays of this, but on small maps I agree that it IS unbeatable, but on large maps it's not the same. So, saving up larvae and having so many resources from being maxed is not enough to spam ultras? For queens, you should be making them as soon as you see some void rays. They're ALWAYS good as AA, and can tank damage. This is commonly accepted by TL already.edit: Insulting me then quickly editing your post to make yourself sound more caring? Hmm.+ Show Spoiler +On February 04 2011 11:01 Skinnyowllegs wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2011 10:56 iChau wrote:On February 04 2011 10:45 Skinnyowllegs wrote:On February 04 2011 10:37 iChau wrote:On February 04 2011 10:34 Skinnyowllegs wrote:
why are you even disgussing this build when there is no way in hell it can even be achieved at highlvl play? Because this is late-game? Read, please. Read what I said instead -.- It's hard to get to, but it's not like there's "no way in hell" it can be achieved. When you're on multiple bases with macro hatches you can get a lot of queens, and queens make larvae --> lots of ultras. This is why it's late-game, because it takes long to get to. It's not easy, but it's possible. (in higher level it's possible because of the above) It is actually impossible at pro level, since the transition from e.g. roach hydra corruptor (vs protoss) in midgame to suddenly having 20 queens and ultras is impossible. If you cant see this then you should stop arguing against. 1. I didnt edit any of my posts. 2. Yes I am insulting your league cause I dont think that anyone other than the top tier of players should state opinions as facts. 3. spamming queens non stop in midgame weakens your army and economy to that point that you outright lose the game against good players (top masters). Nice try, but no banana...
You may want to watch day9's most recent funday monday.
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On February 10 2011 03:06 Malminos wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2011 11:10 Skinnyowllegs wrote:On February 04 2011 11:02 iChau wrote:On February 04 2011 10:58 Skinnyowllegs wrote:On February 04 2011 10:51 PepperoniPiZZa wrote:
Did you know that there already exist zerg army compositions that are very hard to beat? The problem is getting there. It's so hard to tech to ultras under constant aggression, massing queens while achieving the tech is ludicrous. Certainly, at your level, where absolutely nothing happens in the early and midgame, it's an achievable task but better players will roflstomp you.
Did you know that there doesnt exist a zerg army composition that are very hard to beat? Both terran and protoss has 200/200 unit comps that are unbeatable at very high lvl (masters 3200+) for zerg. But maybe "at your lvl" you dont get "roflstomped" by good players. Diamond 2800, can't get in Masters and I admit the reason is that I disconnect a lot and I lose to all fast pools (I always FE, IDGAF about losing occasional games). It ruins streaks that you need. I used protoss death balls, and I admit, it's friggin' strong. If you're just insulting my league, then please don't post in these forums. Protoss Colossi death ball is beaten by ultras or bl + speedling support, but void ray/colossi is a lot stronger, but however, can still be beaten (way hard though, not friggin' unbeatable) by large maps with 300 food push + t3 tech. I seen occasional replays of this, but on small maps I agree that it IS unbeatable, but on large maps it's not the same. So, saving up larvae and having so many resources from being maxed is not enough to spam ultras? For queens, you should be making them as soon as you see some void rays. They're ALWAYS good as AA, and can tank damage. This is commonly accepted by TL already.edit: Insulting me then quickly editing your post to make yourself sound more caring? Hmm.+ Show Spoiler +On February 04 2011 11:01 Skinnyowllegs wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2011 10:56 iChau wrote:On February 04 2011 10:45 Skinnyowllegs wrote:On February 04 2011 10:37 iChau wrote:On February 04 2011 10:34 Skinnyowllegs wrote:
why are you even disgussing this build when there is no way in hell it can even be achieved at highlvl play? Because this is late-game? Read, please. Read what I said instead -.- It's hard to get to, but it's not like there's "no way in hell" it can be achieved. When you're on multiple bases with macro hatches you can get a lot of queens, and queens make larvae --> lots of ultras. This is why it's late-game, because it takes long to get to. It's not easy, but it's possible. (in higher level it's possible because of the above) It is actually impossible at pro level, since the transition from e.g. roach hydra corruptor (vs protoss) in midgame to suddenly having 20 queens and ultras is impossible. If you cant see this then you should stop arguing against. 1. I didnt edit any of my posts. 2. Yes I am insulting your league cause I dont think that anyone other than the top tier of players should state opinions as facts. 3. spamming queens non stop in midgame weakens your army and economy to that point that you outright lose the game against good players (top masters). Nice try, but no banana... You may want to watch day9's most recent funday monday.
How the **** does it weaken your economy when you aren't using ANY larvae to build queens, so you can dedicate it to drones only. Think a lil'
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The great thing about using queens to defend early rushes (and day9's video shows early queens stopping a 4 gate with proper transfuses/roaches) is that no larvae are used in the process. You can use all of that time for drones drones drones. This also protects you from phoenix harass/stargate builds.
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On February 10 2011 03:06 Malminos wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2011 11:10 Skinnyowllegs wrote:On February 04 2011 11:02 iChau wrote:On February 04 2011 10:58 Skinnyowllegs wrote:On February 04 2011 10:51 PepperoniPiZZa wrote:
Did you know that there already exist zerg army compositions that are very hard to beat? The problem is getting there. It's so hard to tech to ultras under constant aggression, massing queens while achieving the tech is ludicrous. Certainly, at your level, where absolutely nothing happens in the early and midgame, it's an achievable task but better players will roflstomp you.
Did you know that there doesnt exist a zerg army composition that are very hard to beat? Both terran and protoss has 200/200 unit comps that are unbeatable at very high lvl (masters 3200+) for zerg. But maybe "at your lvl" you dont get "roflstomped" by good players. Diamond 2800, can't get in Masters and I admit the reason is that I disconnect a lot and I lose to all fast pools (I always FE, IDGAF about losing occasional games). It ruins streaks that you need. I used protoss death balls, and I admit, it's friggin' strong. If you're just insulting my league, then please don't post in these forums. Protoss Colossi death ball is beaten by ultras or bl + speedling support, but void ray/colossi is a lot stronger, but however, can still be beaten (way hard though, not friggin' unbeatable) by large maps with 300 food push + t3 tech. I seen occasional replays of this, but on small maps I agree that it IS unbeatable, but on large maps it's not the same. So, saving up larvae and having so many resources from being maxed is not enough to spam ultras? For queens, you should be making them as soon as you see some void rays. They're ALWAYS good as AA, and can tank damage. This is commonly accepted by TL already.edit: Insulting me then quickly editing your post to make yourself sound more caring? Hmm.+ Show Spoiler +On February 04 2011 11:01 Skinnyowllegs wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2011 10:56 iChau wrote:On February 04 2011 10:45 Skinnyowllegs wrote:On February 04 2011 10:37 iChau wrote:On February 04 2011 10:34 Skinnyowllegs wrote:
why are you even disgussing this build when there is no way in hell it can even be achieved at highlvl play? Because this is late-game? Read, please. Read what I said instead -.- It's hard to get to, but it's not like there's "no way in hell" it can be achieved. When you're on multiple bases with macro hatches you can get a lot of queens, and queens make larvae --> lots of ultras. This is why it's late-game, because it takes long to get to. It's not easy, but it's possible. (in higher level it's possible because of the above) It is actually impossible at pro level, since the transition from e.g. roach hydra corruptor (vs protoss) in midgame to suddenly having 20 queens and ultras is impossible. If you cant see this then you should stop arguing against. 1. I didnt edit any of my posts. 2. Yes I am insulting your league cause I dont think that anyone other than the top tier of players should state opinions as facts. 3. spamming queens non stop in midgame weakens your army and economy to that point that you outright lose the game against good players (top masters). Nice try, but no banana... I suppose Some master players will start using this composition late game since it has been used by pro gamers (after they read my post). while just 1 week ago they were insulting me and my league position disregarding my strat/army composition as fantasies... I guess some people are made to make inventions and others are competent in using them I suggest u try again with a banana... You may want to watch day9's most recent funday monday.
I suppose Some master players will start using this composition late game since it has been used by pro gamers (after they read my post). while just 1 week ago they were insulting me and my league position disregarding my strat/army composition as fantasies...
I guess some people are made to make inventions and others are competent in using them
I suggest u try again with a banana...
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Watched ROOTCatz games and we can't really say how often he tryed because i'm sure he did not send the replays where he failed. Played 2 Times against Ultra / Queens and i'm never making the protoss "deathball" . I try to focus on Gateunits + 4-5 immortals + archons and HT and the Zerg had not really a chance... . FB on queens and immos + archons one hit an ultra.
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On February 05 2011 13:02 tuestresfat wrote:
I'm a huge advocate for any unorthodox strategy that makes use of previously thought to be unviable (or just really bad) units.
This is possibly one of them. Maybe not "tech straight to pure ultras and mass queens in that exact ratio", but it's the general idea that I like.
Keep it up OP.
WORKER RUSH FTW!
Anyways, Isnt this the assumption that the toss doesnt have more VR's than collossi / immortal? because i know that a voidray can take on 2 queens, and queens take FOREVER to make and are replaced dreadfully slow compared to a chronoboosted stargate. Once the queens are taken care of, the ultras are done for
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On February 10 2011 04:26 BloodyPikachu wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2011 13:02 tuestresfat wrote:
I'm a huge advocate for any unorthodox strategy that makes use of previously thought to be unviable (or just really bad) units.
This is possibly one of them. Maybe not "tech straight to pure ultras and mass queens in that exact ratio", but it's the general idea that I like.
Keep it up OP. WORKER RUSH FTW! Anyways, Isnt this the assumption that the toss doesnt have more VR's than collossi / immortal? because i know that a voidray can take on 2 queens, and queens take FOREVER to make and are replaced dreadfully slow compared to a chronoboosted stargate. Once the queens are taken care of, the ultras are done for
24 queens can take on 20Vrays with a maximum 3-4 casualties if transfused correctly. i wonder what would happen if u replace those queens with hydras...
I have already stated that Hts counter this strat. You have to use banelings (not used often against toss) and or Broodlords.
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Friggin catz and his queens were epic on shakuras vs the terran in the day9 daily.
+ Show Spoiler +5 broodlords with queen support took out about 70 supply of units from a terran push without losing any BLs. Also, catz's creep spread by that time was through the roof, he had it literally everywhere.
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They need to allow the option of spawning queens out of eggs. Then I would do this.
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this strat does not take into consideration that queens are much harder to replace than any other zerg unit, if you lose your queens at some point you will not be able to come back, only if you switch to some other strat
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On February 10 2011 06:42 Manimal_pro wrote:
this strat does not take into consideration that queens are much harder to replace than any other zerg unit, if you lose your queens at some point you will not be able to come back, only if you switch to some other strat
read well! I said queens are more valuable than your ultras, you can always sacrifice them... but never the queens! LONG LIVE THE QUEENS!!
FOR THE SWARM!!
your queens should be safe healing your ultra/BL unless you get massive feedback.. than you have been countered, else it would have been a thread about OP zerg... which wil not happen anytime soon...
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Everyone needs to chill with bashing this, try it out. If anything it's interesting.
Don't underestimate 20 queens with transfusion, or just transfusion in general.
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On February 10 2011 06:56 ibreakurface wrote:
Everyone needs to chill with bashing this, try it out. If anything it's interesting.
Don't underestimate 20 queens with transfusion, or just transfusion in general.
Or 3 Ultras with infinite health doing a 300 thing on the narrow passes of these Blziz maps.
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Why you don't see Queens in army = they require creep which any above average player will make sure the Zerg opponents creep highway is kept at a minimum at all times.
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On February 10 2011 04:14 DiranMan wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2011 03:06 Malminos wrote:On February 04 2011 11:10 Skinnyowllegs wrote:On February 04 2011 11:02 iChau wrote:On February 04 2011 10:58 Skinnyowllegs wrote:On February 04 2011 10:51 PepperoniPiZZa wrote:
Did you know that there already exist zerg army compositions that are very hard to beat? The problem is getting there. It's so hard to tech to ultras under constant aggression, massing queens while achieving the tech is ludicrous. Certainly, at your level, where absolutely nothing happens in the early and midgame, it's an achievable task but better players will roflstomp you.
Did you know that there doesnt exist a zerg army composition that are very hard to beat? Both terran and protoss has 200/200 unit comps that are unbeatable at very high lvl (masters 3200+) for zerg. But maybe "at your lvl" you dont get "roflstomped" by good players. Diamond 2800, can't get in Masters and I admit the reason is that I disconnect a lot and I lose to all fast pools (I always FE, IDGAF about losing occasional games). It ruins streaks that you need. I used protoss death balls, and I admit, it's friggin' strong. If you're just insulting my league, then please don't post in these forums. Protoss Colossi death ball is beaten by ultras or bl + speedling support, but void ray/colossi is a lot stronger, but however, can still be beaten (way hard though, not friggin' unbeatable) by large maps with 300 food push + t3 tech. I seen occasional replays of this, but on small maps I agree that it IS unbeatable, but on large maps it's not the same. So, saving up larvae and having so many resources from being maxed is not enough to spam ultras? For queens, you should be making them as soon as you see some void rays. They're ALWAYS good as AA, and can tank damage. This is commonly accepted by TL already.edit: Insulting me then quickly editing your post to make yourself sound more caring? Hmm.+ Show Spoiler +On February 04 2011 11:01 Skinnyowllegs wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2011 10:56 iChau wrote:On February 04 2011 10:45 Skinnyowllegs wrote:On February 04 2011 10:37 iChau wrote:On February 04 2011 10:34 Skinnyowllegs wrote:
why are you even disgussing this build when there is no way in hell it can even be achieved at highlvl play? Because this is late-game? Read, please. Read what I said instead -.- It's hard to get to, but it's not like there's "no way in hell" it can be achieved. When you're on multiple bases with macro hatches you can get a lot of queens, and queens make larvae --> lots of ultras. This is why it's late-game, because it takes long to get to. It's not easy, but it's possible. (in higher level it's possible because of the above) It is actually impossible at pro level, since the transition from e.g. roach hydra corruptor (vs protoss) in midgame to suddenly having 20 queens and ultras is impossible. If you cant see this then you should stop arguing against. 1. I didnt edit any of my posts. 2. Yes I am insulting your league cause I dont think that anyone other than the top tier of players should state opinions as facts. 3. spamming queens non stop in midgame weakens your army and economy to that point that you outright lose the game against good players (top masters). Nice try, but no banana... I suppose Some master players will start using this composition late game since it has been used by pro gamers (after they read my post). while just 1 week ago they were insulting me and my league position disregarding my strat/army composition as fantasies... I guess some people are made to make inventions and others are competent in using them I suggest u try again with a banana... You may want to watch day9's most recent funday monday. I suppose Some master players will start using this composition late game since it has been used by pro gamers (after they read my post). while just 1 week ago they were insulting me and my league position disregarding my strat/army composition as fantasies... I guess some people are made to make inventions and others are competent in using them I suggest u try again with a banana...
As full of love that i am with our queens. I think you should also try to reconsider yourself and your self-esteem a little.
In almost all the replay you've submitted you talked about the ubber new strategy, how strong and ubber your play is. Of course, that ubber strat' you have found and nobody ever used. How pathetic master player are, how you did understand what other don't etc...I've already express how borderline it feels imo.
Let me just say you didn't create shit. You just use some units with success that other have also used before. Your games are not relevant at all about any good strat', there are about a good end game composition. Our ( diamond and almost 90% of master ) skill sux and the games we played can't be used as proof of anything expect ideas and thoughts about the game.
I really like the idea of mass queen, since the beta, i discover that in Zelnic's ZvZ day J daily. And i'm pretty sure some crazy players have used it before ( specially since queen have seen their of creep movement nerfed so hard way before that Day 9 show ).
So please, reconsider your position a little.
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3/3 Queen/Ultra can't do shit against a 200/200 3/3pure mech army (tanks+thors+vikings). I tried it in the unit tester, when you are facing 20+ fully upgraded siege tanks, transfusion becomes a joke.
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On February 10 2011 10:38 Super_bricklayer wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2011 04:14 DiranMan wrote:On February 10 2011 03:06 Malminos wrote:On February 04 2011 11:10 Skinnyowllegs wrote:On February 04 2011 11:02 iChau wrote:On February 04 2011 10:58 Skinnyowllegs wrote:On February 04 2011 10:51 PepperoniPiZZa wrote:
Did you know that there already exist zerg army compositions that are very hard to beat? The problem is getting there. It's so hard to tech to ultras under constant aggression, massing queens while achieving the tech is ludicrous. Certainly, at your level, where absolutely nothing happens in the early and midgame, it's an achievable task but better players will roflstomp you.
Did you know that there doesnt exist a zerg army composition that are very hard to beat? Both terran and protoss has 200/200 unit comps that are unbeatable at very high lvl (masters 3200+) for zerg. But maybe "at your lvl" you dont get "roflstomped" by good players. Diamond 2800, can't get in Masters and I admit the reason is that I disconnect a lot and I lose to all fast pools (I always FE, IDGAF about losing occasional games). It ruins streaks that you need. I used protoss death balls, and I admit, it's friggin' strong. If you're just insulting my league, then please don't post in these forums. Protoss Colossi death ball is beaten by ultras or bl + speedling support, but void ray/colossi is a lot stronger, but however, can still be beaten (way hard though, not friggin' unbeatable) by large maps with 300 food push + t3 tech. I seen occasional replays of this, but on small maps I agree that it IS unbeatable, but on large maps it's not the same. So, saving up larvae and having so many resources from being maxed is not enough to spam ultras? For queens, you should be making them as soon as you see some void rays. They're ALWAYS good as AA, and can tank damage. This is commonly accepted by TL already.edit: Insulting me then quickly editing your post to make yourself sound more caring? Hmm.+ Show Spoiler +On February 04 2011 11:01 Skinnyowllegs wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2011 10:56 iChau wrote:On February 04 2011 10:45 Skinnyowllegs wrote:On February 04 2011 10:37 iChau wrote:On February 04 2011 10:34 Skinnyowllegs wrote:
why are you even disgussing this build when there is no way in hell it can even be achieved at highlvl play? Because this is late-game? Read, please. Read what I said instead -.- It's hard to get to, but it's not like there's "no way in hell" it can be achieved. When you're on multiple bases with macro hatches you can get a lot of queens, and queens make larvae --> lots of ultras. This is why it's late-game, because it takes long to get to. It's not easy, but it's possible. (in higher level it's possible because of the above) It is actually impossible at pro level, since the transition from e.g. roach hydra corruptor (vs protoss) in midgame to suddenly having 20 queens and ultras is impossible. If you cant see this then you should stop arguing against. 1. I didnt edit any of my posts. 2. Yes I am insulting your league cause I dont think that anyone other than the top tier of players should state opinions as facts. 3. spamming queens non stop in midgame weakens your army and economy to that point that you outright lose the game against good players (top masters). Nice try, but no banana... I suppose Some master players will start using this composition late game since it has been used by pro gamers (after they read my post). while just 1 week ago they were insulting me and my league position disregarding my strat/army composition as fantasies... I guess some people are made to make inventions and others are competent in using them I suggest u try again with a banana... You may want to watch day9's most recent funday monday. I suppose Some master players will start using this composition late game since it has been used by pro gamers (after they read my post). while just 1 week ago they were insulting me and my league position disregarding my strat/army composition as fantasies... I guess some people are made to make inventions and others are competent in using them I suggest u try again with a banana... As full of love that i am with our queens. I think you should also try to reconsider yourself and your self-esteem a little. In almost all the replay you've submitted you talked about the ubber new strategy, how strong and ubber your play is. Of course, that ubber strat' you have found and nobody ever used. How pathetic master player are, how you did understand what other don't etc...I've already express how borderline it feels imo. Let me just say you didn't create shit. You just use some units with success that other have also used before. Your games are not relevant at all about any good strat', there are about a good end game composition. Our ( diamond and almost 90% of master ) skill sux and the games we played can't be used as proof of anything expect ideas and thoughts about the game. I really like the idea of mass queen, since the beta, i discover that in Zelnic's ZvZ day J daily. And i'm pretty sure some crazy players have used it before ( specially since queen have seen their of creep movement nerfed so hard way before that Day 9 show ). So please, reconsider your position a little.
I never claimed that my strat is the ubber strat or my play is the ubber play.. you have trouble interpreting statements. I clearly said that my unit composition can smash "Standard" protoss/terran ball of death. You can try it if you like. and yeah death balls happen end game (where zerg has most trouble if not ahead by a margin) and this is clearly an end game unit composition. In my replays I used an unorthodox oppening to demonstrate that although behind, zerg can win if you have the "right" unit composition.
Im sure you have been using mass queens all along but just find that toss ball is unstopable unless you have 2+ bases. next time you wana slam another players idea, I suggest u try it first...
I guess some master players did try it and decided to make it a day[9] edition.
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On February 10 2011 11:47 Terranium wrote:
3/3 Queen/Ultra can't do shit against a 200/200 3/3pure mech army (tanks+thors+vikings). I tried it in the unit tester, when you are facing 20+ fully upgraded siege tanks, transfusion becomes a joke.
yeah I already said that mass Siege tanks 12+ is a problem. all you need is a few Broodlords if only to force unsiege. than it will be a complete massacre the other way. if you dont believe than watch my first replay. and yeah gl killing My BLs with 6-8 vickings.
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So let me just quote that one :
On February 10 2011 21:26 DiranMan wrote:
Im sure you have been using mass queens all along but just find that toss ball is unstopable unless you have 2+ bases. next time you wana slam another players idea, I suggest u try it first...
See ?
I never said anything against that composition or about my personal experience with it, i always loved mass queen since the beta. All i said was about your tone and how pretentious you felt to me in the game you submited and more and more with your comments.
But your reaction show to me why this thread is just bullshit forum wars instead of a "let's think/ talk about possible stuff".
Anyway, we have a new mass queen topic every two weeks, let's just wait for the next one to be more constructive.
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EPT
