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Meet the New ZERG BALL OF DEATH: THE ULTRA QUEENS! - Page 6

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Immolate
Profile Joined September 2010
42 Posts
February 08 2011 06:27 GMT
#101
thing is that on higher levels there will actually be an attempt to prevent creep spread. in ZvP the guy could have simply used an observer and shot down tumors so queens have no mobility (of course this can be countered by having your units not sitting in your base or with the use of drops). Ultras were always decent in ZvP anyways because all of their armored units but if they even attempt to micro then the effectiveness of the ultra is cut greatly but of course you also had infestors but you didnt really have to use fungals. I can see this working maybe once in awhile but I think it needs these key things such as protecting your creep spread and using fungals. This can get countered pretty hard with HTs using feedback on your queens though, then you're just fighting a half army against a full protoss army.
vileChAnCe
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada525 Posts
February 08 2011 06:52 GMT
#102
On February 05 2011 22:12 MorroW wrote:
no composition in zvp can beat a toss army with mothership in it, its nice to have dreams tho



yeaaaaah someone who finally feels my pain I've been working so hard on my build and unit composition only to find the end boss unbeatable... vortex and splash needs to be reworked thats not working as intended that's just another free win card for brotoss
Day[9] i've broken 6 mice, 5 keyboards, 3 pairs of headphones, and a mousepad, all from raging after starcraft losing streaks
NeWnAr
Profile Joined April 2010
Singapore231 Posts
February 08 2011 11:22 GMT
#103
Queens are amazing units as a whole. The only unit that is permanent and doesn't cost larvae, not even gas, yet is a caster with godlike hp. They can be used in almost all Zery builds. My personal favourite is the unexpected hydraqueen with pure hydras. Queens soak up god amounts of dmg if you put them in front while range-upgraded hydras rape the front safely behind the queen wall. Completely turns off all phoenix, viking, voidray or muta play. And the creep spread is simply insane when there are >4 tumours spreading. Helps get that highway up for the hydras as well.

Queen roach/baneling is also very powerful against many things.
Live For the Swarm!
Morik
Profile Joined August 2010
65 Posts
February 08 2011 14:24 GMT
#104
To those who are saying this would never work at a high level: Go watch Day9 daily #256 (encore), ROOTCatz.

Catz does mass queen builds and wins with them at a high level. Including getting 5-6 ultras + 15ish queens once.
Tef
Profile Joined April 2008
Sweden443 Posts
February 08 2011 17:01 GMT
#105
I started using mass queens a couple of days ago and it feels very safe. I have managed to hold off 4-gate, 3-gate + voidray and 3-gate + robo. Usually with lings + spines + queens.. then I can transition into roach/hydra or muta/ling. After the initial battle I usually have 5-7 queens. I will post a few replays when I have a few good ones.
Dont fuck up, dont fuck yourself
GruGloG
Profile Joined December 2008
Netherlands114 Posts
February 08 2011 17:06 GMT
#106
On February 04 2011 09:47 DiranMan wrote:
And next time Toss/Terran make their ball, show them who has the bigger balls.


I laughed at this :D.

Props to you for trying out new things, really working on them AND sharing your discoveries with the community!

I have yet to face this so I have no idea if it is viable or not, but it sounds cool at least .
Morik
Profile Joined August 2010
65 Posts
February 08 2011 17:08 GMT
#107
On February 08 2011 15:52 Whomp wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 05 2011 22:12 MorroW wrote:
no composition in zvp can beat a toss army with mothership in it, its nice to have dreams tho



yeaaaaah someone who finally feels my pain I've been working so hard on my build and unit composition only to find the end boss unbeatable... vortex and splash needs to be reworked thats not working as intended that's just another free win card for brotoss


Have you tried neuraling the mothership? Now YOUR units are cloaked.

Just make sure to take out any observers... don't want them to be able to see your now cloaked infester...
ApocAlypsE007
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Israel1007 Posts
February 08 2011 17:14 GMT
#108
On February 08 2011 15:52 Whomp wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 05 2011 22:12 MorroW wrote:
no composition in zvp can beat a toss army with mothership in it, its nice to have dreams tho



yeaaaaah someone who finally feels my pain I've been working so hard on my build and unit composition only to find the end boss unbeatable... vortex and splash needs to be reworked thats not working as intended that's just another free win card for brotoss

You are talking about the archon toilet/vortex to storm right? know that banelings work wonders in vortex.
I'm playing the game, the one that will take me to my end, i'm waiting for the rain, TO WASH-- WHO I AM!!!
heyyouyesyou
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States323 Posts
February 08 2011 17:15 GMT
#109
Hmmmm seems like a lot of micro, but at the same time immortal ultralisks sounds terrifying to me.
I still think a terran could handle this with marine/marauder/tank/banshee none of which would be very hard to get or produce. Im not saying its not a beastly idea but your time frame to abuse this seemingly invincible force might not be as large as you want or need it.
I could see you using this late game to destroy the terrans 3rd, as ive seen a replay from a thread where mass ultras took down a PF on the raised middle ground of Jungle Basin and then beat a BC tech switch!
If you used this late game strategy to deny a 3rd, and then tech switched to mass mutas and starved the terran i could see it very effectively used.
biomech!
heyyouyesyou
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States323 Posts
February 08 2011 17:19 GMT
#110
Hmmmm seems like a lot of micro, but at the same time immortal ultralisks sounds terrifying to me.
I still think a terran could handle this with marine/marauder/tank/banshee none of which would be very hard to get or produce. Im not saying its not a beastly idea but your time frame to abuse this seemingly invincible force might not be as large as you want or need it.
I could see you using this late game to destroy the terrans 3rd, as ive seen a replay from a thread where mass ultras took down a PF on the raised middle ground of Jungle Basin and then beat a BC tech switch!
If you used this late game strategy to deny a 3rd, and then tech switched to mass mutas and starved the terran i could see it very effectively used.
biomech!
DiranMan
Profile Joined January 2011
25 Posts
February 08 2011 18:30 GMT
#111
1) For those of you who think that ultras on their own can beat toss ball anyway, I say it only does some damage and then dies specially against some immortals/archons, previously it only worked if you had massive advantage ( you can reinforce and fight again fast).
2) for those of you who think that 5-7 queens will do, 24 is overkill: I prefer to have 6ultras and 24 queens, than 16 ultras and 5 queens. Remember if transfused right every full energy queen means ultra has 1 more chance in life. 24 queens with 6 ultras is theoretical the equivalent fighting power of 30ultras minus the time ultras spend moving to replace dead ones. Remember even if you had 30 ultras between 6-8 will be fighting at any given time at best.
3) the main point of the thread is to have an effective efficient fighting force end game. if you choose to get there my way, you can hold any push (including 2 colossi) with lings/roaches/splines/infestor/queens. remember queen shoot collosi (air) at range 7. you make queens early so they getter energy for first big fight with ultras. in general, fungal is better vs terran, INf terran is better against toss.
5) if you want to use queen/hydras. than the goal of the queens is to tank and transfuse themseves not hydras. the problem is
a) getting them in position.
b) cannot fight 1 inch off creep. (with ultra queens, ultra can travel alitle outside creep staying in range of transfuse)
c) In big fights your tanks(queens) will die so fast you won’t have time to transfuse. Ultras have 500hp, you have more time to heal ultra before it dies
d) HT/ghost have much easier time picking queens (much closer).
6) immortal/zealots is hard to fight (it’s the other theoretical hard counter) but adding just a few banelings will turn the tide off battle dramatically, as your lings will eat and tank the immortals.
7) if you can force Immortal zealots, a tech switch to Mutas/BL will be game winning. remember the ultimate build is to have BL together with your Ultra queen + infestors, maybe some banelings too. Than truly your force will be invincible (or at least before the Mother ship shows)
broodlings will replace your lings role + they do more initial damage + they are limitless. Queens can heal BL/ultras.
8) 15+ queens + ovi creep can spread creep like small pox.
9) HT and ghosts are the only hard counter, yes i do not claim that this army composition is invincible, but if u can force them to mass those gas heavy units u should be able to tech switch or beat their armies with your traditional army more easily.
10) Mothership its the most annoying thing that can happen to you. you have basically 2 choicse. the safe bet is to make 12 corrupters to snipe it before they get the corrupters down and then engage, or if the MS is leading the pack, fungal the front lines, NP and send their own unit to the Void, trow all your infested terran around his army/vortex, send in some banelings in vortex (feed them their own medicine) engage full force, IF you pull it off perfectly you should get the maximum satisfaction as you should totally own them. Else return to the drawing board! recently I tried adding around 12-16 infestors to my main army if I suspect MS, if you can throw all your inf terran, that will be an army of its own. But you should click like 1000apm for a few seconds.
Sbrubbles
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil5776 Posts
February 08 2011 19:11 GMT
#112
On February 09 2011 02:14 ApocAlypsE007 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 08 2011 15:52 Whomp wrote:
On February 05 2011 22:12 MorroW wrote:
no composition in zvp can beat a toss army with mothership in it, its nice to have dreams tho



yeaaaaah someone who finally feels my pain I've been working so hard on my build and unit composition only to find the end boss unbeatable... vortex and splash needs to be reworked thats not working as intended that's just another free win card for brotoss

You are talking about the archon toilet/vortex to storm right? know that banelings work wonders in vortex.


Holy shit. I'll be trully impressed when someone does the neural-baneling toilet.
Bora Pain minha porra!
whomybuddy
Profile Joined August 2010
United States620 Posts
February 08 2011 19:35 GMT
#113
Queens are good[everyone know this] but they are worst than hydra because they mve so slow off creep. Say you nydus or whatever or even spam 5xcreep tumor down, it'll take a while for the creep to spread and the queens can't run fast enough off creep.
Roaches all the way way way.
.Storm
Profile Joined October 2010
United States28 Posts
February 08 2011 19:47 GMT
#114
people seem to be complaining about how immobile this build is because of the limitations of the queen but i think the idea is is that you're going to be PUMPING queens out like there's no tomorrow, so i HIGHLY doubt you'll lack the creep spread. i mean, when i used to play zerg, i remember having nearly 20 active creep tumors because that extra queen you kept around for laying creep tumors was always ready to spread creep. everytime you do a wave of inject larva on every hatchery you have, you'll be putting down a creep tumor with your extra queen. and then it just goes on from there because you'll have more and more active creep tumors (active meaning that they can place another one)

you don't have to have full energy just wasting away when you can just drop a creep tumor while you wait weeks for your ultras to pop. i sometimes go two extra creep queens because i accidently make an extra and the creep spread gets extremely out of control. The opponent doesn't even have enough time to snipe all of them because there's just so many. now imagine like 4 or 5 or 10 creep queens. trust me, you'll cover the map in no time.
I am the storm
DiranMan
Profile Joined January 2011
25 Posts
February 08 2011 20:40 GMT
#115
MUST WATCH

for those of you who still more replays to get convinced, I made this great game vs terran who got extra expension, in first big fight its basicaly a trade off he had too many tanks, i miss clicked + ran out of energy.
but its the final fight which is a total ownage
21 marines, 27 Mauroders, 13 tanks, 3 thors, 2 Med, 3 vickings.
7250 3000
against
4 infestors, 20 lings, 17 queens, 6 ultras, 6 Broodlords, 2 corrupters.
7350 3500.

remaining
1infestor, 17 queens, 6 ultras, 6 BL, 2 Corrupter.
total loss for terran, 800 450 loss for zerg.

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/136719-1v1-terran-zerg-xelnaga-caverns

Mass tanks 12+ is a problem for this build and you should obviously add BL if only just to unsiege them.
Queen+ ultra +BL+ infestor with some lings is a total ownage!
clever_us
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States329 Posts
February 08 2011 20:44 GMT
#116
i think one thing that might encourage ultra play vs toss is the fact that they pop force fields. I'm not exactly a strategic mastermind but it seems like any time I go roach/hydra they get torn up by force fields - so if it's the late game, why not mix in some ultras? And queens too, of course, since they are my new favorite unit.
glhf <3
Lakee
Profile Joined February 2011
Finland4 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-09 17:28:11
February 09 2011 17:26 GMT
#117
I tried to do queen/ultra in mid game in gold league and it went pretty well. Because my apm is about 70 that transfuse isn't pretty good when u try to keep up 10 ultras, but in low numbers it was amazing

heres replay...its pretty one sided but shows how transfuse works without 300 apm
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/137102-1v1-terran-zerg-shakuras-plateau

I haven't tried that BL mix but i think it should work pretty well
And those ultras in mid-game will get your opponent really freaked out
Patriot.dlk
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Sweden5462 Posts
February 09 2011 17:30 GMT
#118
I have tried using this as zerg and I really crushed my opponent without losing much so i've confident that in certain situations it's a good composition.
branflakes14
Profile Joined July 2010
2082 Posts
February 09 2011 17:41 GMT
#119
Are you telling me I'm going to have to start Feedbacking Queens?
Yverodagny
Profile Joined October 2010
37 Posts
February 09 2011 17:45 GMT
#120
Only downside i can see is you need huge creep coverage for the queens to be useful. but with that many queens it shouldn't be to much of a problem
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