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[G] iEchoic's 2fact2port TvT - Page 17

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Cano
Profile Joined July 2010
Poland200 Posts
February 08 2011 20:17 GMT
#321
^ Come on, the guy knows better - he's a Zerg player. More than that he's 2.1K diamond Zerg player.

I love that even thought the build is so defined in the early game it leaves infrastructure which can be accomodated to other styles.
JamesSwift
Profile Joined May 2010
United States71 Posts
February 08 2011 20:37 GMT
#322
On February 09 2011 04:34 Ender985 wrote:
...
The only problem I could see with it is that, if he opens with the standard marine/tank, in the early game he probably has enough ground forces to, as Day9 puts it, just go fucking kill you. It is true that you can put an enormous amount of pression in the early game by econ harrassment (blueflame helion drops, which IMHO will become a must for terran in each and every match up, plus banshees). But if he builds minimal air defence and leaves 1 sieged tank at home, walks up to your natural, sieges and pushes up, your are pretty much screwed. Basically hellions melt to tank fire and then banshees to marine fire.

...

As long as you don't freak out about the marine/tank attack, you will be fine. You just have to wait to engage when you have enough hellions to take out the marines and at least 1 banshee to clean up the tanks. During this time you are able to COMPLETELY decimate his SCV's. One siege tank is not enough to prevent terrible damage to his SCV line. Blue flame hellions are stupid fast and powerful.
你好
dohgg
Profile Joined February 2011
310 Posts
February 08 2011 20:52 GMT
#323
As much as ppl fasinating about the usage of hellions in his match up, i m pretty sure that in a case our opp isnt going for banshees, the first banshee is the most important thing to have as for surviving early attack, i also think the ASAP cloak is very cruical as for the early game terran will never have enuff scans.

another important point is that u musnt let ur opp to seige+turrtets contain u, even tho u made a graet drop and killed 15 SCVs, i think that if he'll be able to creat that seige+turrets contain on u, he'll have the bigger edge..
SFGhoax
Profile Joined January 2011
United States21 Posts
February 08 2011 21:02 GMT
#324
im a 2400 plat toss player and been looking to improve my terran play, will definantly utilize this for TvT is my worst matchup, but i have 1 question, is this only for TvT or is this just the best matchup for it? could this be utilized is say a TvZ?
Dont forget to #manner!
Senorcuidado
Profile Joined May 2010
United States700 Posts
February 08 2011 21:03 GMT
#325
On February 08 2011 18:22 treekiller wrote:
So you chain 2 cheeses (blue flame drop + 2 port shee) together and call it style of play. "sky mech" is no more a style of play then 6 pool into one base muta is a style of play. 3 rax would kill you, tank viking would kill you, 1 rax expand(oGsTheSTC-style -which by the way is a real example of style) would kill you, mega rax would kill you.

Reading the OP trying to justify a supply drop was hilarious. There is a reason drewbie called this a blue flame noob build; its not hard to control. shee micro against rines requires some control, buts thats it.

Playing tvt without tanks is a joke. Yeah shunning tanks is possible if you decide to be a cheesier faggot than Liberache inserting a wheel of gouda up the ass of Tom Cruise, followed up by a rat with AIDS, while Dr. Seuss jacks them both off using the holes in swiss cheese.


I like you. You're like a whole 8th grade class worth of adolescent rage, homophobia, and dramatic run-on sentences. I'd like to analyze your irrational fear of homosexuals but I have the feeling that by the time you lay down on the couch you'll already be banned and back under that familiar bridge we call the blizzard forums. A shame. As for the rage, it's probably as simple as somebody just killed you with hellions in platinum league and you're upset about it. That's fine, just watch the replay and have a good cry. It'll feel good to let it out.

iEchoic and Pokebunny are both excellent players. If they say this build is viable at their high level I believe them. I've started trying it out with practice partners but it's a little tricky at first when you're so used to tanks.
iEchoic
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1776 Posts
February 08 2011 21:05 GMT
#326
Cool, just added Matron's cast to the OP. Also, that little mini-cam in the bottom left during the hellion drop is way awesome.

There will be a lot more info coming soon, so hold tight.
vileEchoic -- clanvile.com
.Roxas
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada3 Posts
February 08 2011 21:44 GMT
#327
I just tried this and it is an awesome build. Messed up on the rax tech -> 1st fac switch among other things.

heres the resulting 1 hour 7 minute game ahah

[image loading]
Blurp
Profile Joined January 2011
United States7 Posts
February 08 2011 21:50 GMT
#328
Blue flame hellions act as the banelings (they kill marines, and are disposable)
- Banshees act as the muta air-to-ground attack (cleaning up ground units after banelings hit)
- Vikings act as the muta air-to-air attack (holding air superiority).
- Should it get to that point, battlecruisers can act as broodlords, countering thors (although BCs are much easier to get and are also quite good vs marines)

This build works for the same reasons muta/ling/bling does, and as a result, it has the same properties as typical ZvT. This means that:

- This build is more powerful on longer rush distances due to the mobility advantage
- Keeping map awareness and map control is very important
- Losing air control is bad (similar to how losing all your mutas results in you being vulnerable to drops and banshees)


This is so sad how Terran can play like a zerg...but do it better and more reliable...
You're Terran, Shut up!
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
February 08 2011 22:03 GMT
#329
They aren't that disposable. As the game (and upgrades) goes on, marines are easier to replenish than hellions, so if you both lose all of these units, he'll be harder and harder for you to produce enough hellions to kill all the reinforcements.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
terran151
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada103 Posts
February 08 2011 22:14 GMT
#330
On February 09 2011 06:50 Blurp wrote:
Blue flame hellions act as the banelings (they kill marines, and are disposable)
- Banshees act as the muta air-to-ground attack (cleaning up ground units after banelings hit)
- Vikings act as the muta air-to-air attack (holding air superiority).
- Should it get to that point, battlecruisers can act as broodlords, countering thors (although BCs are much easier to get and are also quite good vs marines)

This build works for the same reasons muta/ling/bling does, and as a result, it has the same properties as typical ZvT. This means that:

- This build is more powerful on longer rush distances due to the mobility advantage
- Keeping map awareness and map control is very important
- Losing air control is bad (similar to how losing all your mutas results in you being vulnerable to drops and banshees)


This is so sad how Terran can play like a zerg...but do it better and more reliable...




:O I agree that it is similar to a zerg style of play but i dont see how u can say this terran strategy is better and more reliable. This may be true untill terrans figure out how to deal with this but that wont take very long.
RevSynC.177 Server: NA
dohgg
Profile Joined February 2011
310 Posts
February 08 2011 22:39 GMT
#331
Obiously theres some logic to TvZ but dont get so confused bout it...

Hellion r way less costeffective then banglings and r way weaker or i say almost useless vs armored
Their advantage is their mobilty and worker harass which the bangling is much less cost effective.

banshee is 150/100 and viking is 150/75 while 1 muta is 100/100.. not to mention the food cost. and mutas movment speed to pin the terran peffectly and force alot of turrets

Thier advantage is that Banshees r way stronger then mutas and have this cloak abilty that can be Microed well

I think this BO is really easy to bit, and the reason its having such a success is
1. its new on the ladder
2. initial hellion drop was davastating


there r 2 good options to counter that
1. quick thor
2. maras and vikings (while u make a ton of vikings, when he need to focus on banshees also)
Arzac
Profile Joined October 2010
United States12 Posts
February 09 2011 00:50 GMT
#332
I was fearing this build until I ran into it on the ladder for the first time last night. Upon recognizing it, I was able to transition into viking/marauder, which worked out well enough for me. Granted, I'm only 2800 Diamond and several mistakes were made on both sides (the opponent was trying the build for the first time, I overreacted with 3ports on two bases to try to win air control, etc.), but hopefully the replay will serve to help anyone not sure how to react against this strategy.

[image loading]
Shin4911
Profile Joined February 2011
United States13 Posts
February 09 2011 02:41 GMT
#333
I finally registered after lurking TL forums for a while to say that this build (unit comp?) very much works. Here's a replay of me using it on Plat ladder. The game is rife with mistakes by me and I allow the other player to get ahead in economy but the build still worked. Thanks iEchoic for turning my least fav matchup tolerable.

[image loading]
Antisocialmunky
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States5912 Posts
February 09 2011 02:54 GMT
#334
On February 09 2011 07:03 Alaric wrote:
They aren't that disposable. As the game (and upgrades) goes on, marines are easier to replenish than hellions, so if you both lose all of these units, he'll be harder and harder for you to produce enough hellions to kill all the reinforcements.


Hellions are the only thing you have that are capable of forcing a siege or taking up ground space. They are not disposable.
[゚n゚] SSSSssssssSSsss ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Marine/Raven Guide:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=163605
SecretA5DC
Profile Joined December 2010
Korea (South)225 Posts
February 09 2011 03:14 GMT
#335
Congratulations for being featured on Day9 for Tuesday. I'll def be tuning in.
UNFAZD
Profile Joined April 2010
United States12 Posts
February 09 2011 03:15 GMT
#336
Hey man congrats for the opportunity to go on the Day9 daily tomorrow!
I watch for the apocalypse and laugh when it comes
Stato
Profile Joined June 2010
United Kingdom51 Posts
February 09 2011 03:22 GMT
#337
great post, will try it out!
Tsabo
Profile Joined September 2010
Russian Federation266 Posts
February 09 2011 04:10 GMT
#338
What happends against early marauder heavy pushes? (Like Slayers_Boxer's game in GSTL)
eastdragon
Profile Joined October 2010
12 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-09 04:29:12
February 09 2011 04:22 GMT
#339
This looks like a very nice build, though as stated before, it seems like a lot of the early advantage comes from the strong harassment of the mineral line w/ the blue-flamed hellions. However, it seems like the quickest way to shut that down almost completely would be to simply throw a single bunker and a couple of marines directly in one's own mineral line. Most standard Terran builds usually have a surplus of marines anyway, & a bunker is only two marines' worth of minerals. Wouldn't that stop the bulk of the harassment of one's SCVs? At that point you don't even have to worry about moving your SCVs out (which tends to clump them up to be AOE raped anyway), just keep them mining. (Also, the computer AI would force the hellions to automatically attack the bunker, since it's attacking them, as opposed to the SCVs--unless your opponent manually micros them to do otherwise--correct?)

And it's not really a waste of resources, since u can always salvage that bunker back later if necessary. Indeed, I often throw a bunker in my mineral line & put a marine or two in it if I suspect drops or mutalisk harass on my SCVs...

Stil
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom206 Posts
February 09 2011 07:19 GMT
#340
I'm a zergie but after hearing D9 mention it, I'll be watching this build in TvT match ups with great interest.
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