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On June 04 2016 13:11 BelialSC2 wrote:
Could someone explain the general compositions you generally go for in each match-up? I'm a bit confused coming from WOL.
ZvZ I can't tell if you want to go roach/ravager or roach/hydra.
ZvP Again, not really sure on ravagers or hydras
ZvT I can't tell if it's ling/bane/infestor or roaches. I guess you get corruptors vs liberators?
And are vipers or swarmhosts common? As I understood they were major units in HOTS but from the limited videos I've seen and streams, I never see them. And are infestors used much? I'm used to making quite a few from WOL...
So far just been dominating ladder with just macro, but I can't help but feel that I'm making entirely 'wrong' units and taking much longer to kill opponents than normal.
You can essentially go roach/ravager in any matchup, at least for the start. Even in ZvT it's standard to use just ravagers against liberators, even though on some maps there are some pretty difficult spots, where you have to re-burrow spores at least. Ling-bane into BLs is a viable style popularized by Dark, but it's really hard to play because of less larvae. People are experimenting with ling/bane based compositions also in ZvP but it is more of a speciality. In ZvP you also often like to go lurkers, but that can be countered by mass (and I mean 10+ mass) Immortals pretty hard.
SHs do not exist, some people have unbound the hotkey to be sure they don't make one by accident. Vipers are useful against mass air, but hard to use properly. Parasitic bomb is strong on paper, but people learned to split. The dream combo of fungal+pbomb can kill 30 mutas in one go, but a good Z will always dodge. Still makes muta in ZvZ a gamble. Against skytoss, pull is used more, but you need a shitload of energy because you usually need to pull tempests twice thanks to their range. Infestors are somewhat used against sky compositions and against terrans that build ghosts because it interrupts snipe (which would otherwise decimate ultras).
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On June 04 2016 13:11 BelialSC2 wrote:
Could someone explain the general compositions you generally go for in each match-up? I'm a bit confused coming from WOL.
ZvZ I can't tell if you want to go roach/ravager or roach/hydra.
ZvP Again, not really sure on ravagers or hydras
ZvT I can't tell if it's ling/bane/infestor or roaches. I guess you get corruptors vs liberators?
And are vipers or swarmhosts common? As I understood they were major units in HOTS but from the limited videos I've seen and streams, I never see them. And are infestors used much? I'm used to making quite a few from WOL...
So far just been dominating ladder with just macro, but I can't help but feel that I'm making entirely 'wrong' units and taking much longer to kill opponents than normal.
there are 2 main playstyles in ZvZ:
-roach/ravager that transitions into:
-mutalisk switch (R/R doesn't shoot up and 15 mutas while enemy can't outroach because of biles and slower larva production can fuck things up)
-lurkers (because it's almost impossible to kill them before hive)
-muta/ling into ultras (nothing in ZvZ beats upgraded ulta/ling/queen, nothing) (best way to beat this is turtle on queen/spore/infestor with ling counterattacks and get your own upgraded ultras faster)
both are perfectly fine, it's playstyle/game-dependant thing which you choose
ZvP: honestly I don't think anybody knows how to play that. Games at pro level are a complete mess. The safest way IMHO is opening roach/ravager and then going lurker/ling/hydra with drops to try and pull the immortal based P army apart. BLs are still very good, but you need to hit before tempests. Ultras in this matchup don't get much value because of usual double robo immortal.
ZvT: the "normal" anti-bio styles are:
-roach/ravager: it's like HotS roach/hydra (or I guess mass roach spam in WoL), you put on big pressure with your range/carapace upgrades and eventually get to hive (either ultras or BLs even)
-roach/ling/ravager: this one is a ultra rush playstyle, you start your hive around the same time you start your 4th and
use your army to deflect pressure up until you get to ultras with 8 or 9 armor and lings with adrenal (you upgrade melee/carapace in this style) and then start putting the pressure on T
very important in both styles to make a few infestors (either with or without pathogen glands), fungal helps A LOT with landing ravagers' biles onto bio. And while the biles deal with liberators in midgame, later on (around the time you grab your 5th with the melee style) you want to make a spire and get corruptors to deal with liberator armies that T transitions into
-LBM is playable in ZvT too, but it requires a really good start for Zerg and big map, be it with big bane bust or 2 base muta damage
Nerchio is personally my favorite player to learn from since his builds are usually very straight forward and rely on solid fundamentals:
ultra rush ZvT vs Polt (same series analyzed by PiG here)
ling/hydra/lurker counter attack ZvP vs Neeb
Nerchio shows how to ZvZ by dismantling Vortix and Scarlett.
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damn you guys are awesome, thanks a lot Ej_ and opisska. And swissman777, banerain was one of my favorite ways to play zvp, especially vs deathball play that was so popular back in the day.
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On June 04 2016 18:16 BelialSC2 wrote:
damn you guys are awesome, thanks a lot Ej_ and opisska. And swissman777, banerain was one of my favorite ways to play zvp, especially vs deathball play that was so popular back in the day.
I would like to note that Ej_ is leagues better than myself in understanding the game, so I would take his answers more seriously 
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Hi guys quick question : not sure if it happened in the big 3.0 patch but where did the block communication window go in 1on1, or Archon, or 2on2?
It used to be top right where it showed races and co, but all i see now is control and ally*? o_O
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I just got LotV recently after quitting HotS mid-2013. Played 55 games so far, reached plat (was formerly a Diamond) on EU.
I'm doing very well with PvP, but I'm encountering problems in the other matchups due to me not understanding the ramifications of their mechanics changes. Thus 2 simple questions:
1. How do you counter a proxy double rax? The raxes were halfway across the map. Basically the terran just massed up marines like crazy, none of my gateway units could break out of it. I met a guy who did this in back2back games and even knowing it was coming, I couldn't beat it.
2. Does forge FE in PvZ still work at all? I used that build all the way up to diamond in WoL and HotS, and these days I'm really getting fucked by zergs who do fast speedlings after doing the typical (?) 1-gate FE. I can wall off my main but as a tradeoff I always get ganked by mass speedlings. This is why I was hoping to fall back on the tried and tested FFE build.
Thanks for answers!
P.S LotV is incredibly awesome after how drab HotS was and I'm glad to be back
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Can you contaminate a morphing lair / hive to delay it?
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On June 15 2016 04:38 xAdra wrote:
I just got LotV recently after quitting HotS mid-2013. Played 55 games so far, reached plat (was formerly a Diamond) on EU.
I'm doing very well with PvP, but I'm encountering problems in the other matchups due to me not understanding the ramifications of their mechanics changes. Thus 2 simple questions:
1. How do you counter a proxy double rax? The raxes were halfway across the map. Basically the terran just massed up marines like crazy, none of my gateway units could break out of it. I met a guy who did this in back2back games and even knowing it was coming, I couldn't beat it.
2. Does forge FE in PvZ still work at all? I used that build all the way up to diamond in WoL and HotS, and these days I'm really getting fucked by zergs who do fast speedlings after doing the typical (?) 1-gate FE. I can wall off my main but as a tradeoff I always get ganked by mass speedlings. This is why I was hoping to fall back on the tried and tested FFE build.
Thanks for answers!
P.S LotV is incredibly awesome after how drab HotS was and I'm glad to be back
1. Like before against proxy raxes. Make stalkers and outmicro the marines. Usually terrans proxy 4 or 5 raxes though with only 2 they can't get a lot of marines out.
2. FFE is possible, certainly not in the meta.( probably want to cannon their 3rd base since you have the forge). In any case you should be able to wall off your natural before any speedling attack hits you. (maybe not Ulrena or endion) Then you need to make adepts behind the wall to kill the lings.
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On June 15 2016 02:33 Quateras wrote:
Hi guys quick question : not sure if it happened in the big 3.0 patch but where did the block communication window go in 1on1, or Archon, or 2on2?
It used to be top right where it showed races and co, but all i see now is control and ally*? o_O
It should still be there (for me it is there at least.)
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Canada8160 Posts
You can hit f11 to manage in game communication as well
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does someone have a TvZ hellbat timing BO which hits like or finishes at 4min into the game? I've read in Ruffs Stream that if Zerg goes 3 Hatch that this timing can kill Zerg and you might get a BO win, sounds good if you scout it, no? Would rly like to try that one out, all my attempts with reaper FE hit like half to one minute to late imo
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I have been playing SC2 since release, albeit off and on. I mostly play team games but want to start putting in a lot of time into 1v1. I have probably only played 10 games (of any kind) with LotV. The highest league I ever achieved in 1v1 was Platinum. I guess I am really lost on where I even begin with my questions, but I will try my best:
- I really enjoy Terran as a race. I like doing multiple drops in different locations (although I am not that good at doing this.) I also enjoy them as a race (the way the look, sound effects, etc.) I play mostly bio (in any matchup.) I've read that Terran is a challenging race to play among the others. Is this true? What is a good 'beginner' race?
- I've honestly never followed build orders of any kind whatsoever. What are some simple orders to learn? Should I pick three (one for each match up) and focus on that exclusively?
- Is it worth it to practice against the AI to improve macro/mechanics, or should I just play against real opponents?
Any other advice you can give me would be very much appreciated.
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On June 17 2016 05:26 Air.SWP wrote:
I have been playing SC2 since release, albeit off and on. I mostly play team games but want to start putting in a lot of time into 1v1. I have probably only played 10 games (of any kind) with LotV. The highest league I ever achieved in 1v1 was Platinum. I guess I am really lost on where I even begin with my questions, but I will try my best:
- I really enjoy Terran as a race. I like doing multiple drops in different locations (although I am not that good at doing this.) I also enjoy them as a race (the way the look, sound effects, etc.) I play mostly bio (in any matchup.) I've read that Terran is a challenging race to play among the others. Is this true? What is a good 'beginner' race?
- I've honestly never followed build orders of any kind whatsoever. What are some simple orders to learn? Should I pick three (one for each match up) and focus on that exclusively?
- Is it worth it to practice against the AI to improve macro/mechanics, or should I just play against real opponents?
Any other advice you can give me would be very much appreciated.
Before I say anything, I firmly believe that the best way to improve is to play what you think is fun and the rest will follow through.
So if you like Bio, keep playing Bio! Sure it might be challenging, but if it's the most fun for you, then enjoy playing it the most - and then you'll just get better at it. Same thing happened with me and mech. I play mech in all three match ups because I think it's the most fun and not because it's the most powerful. But because I play mech so much I'm better at playing TvP mech than TvP Bio!
But enough about me! Let's answer some of your questions!
- I would say that Terran is the most "challenging" race, though I would call myself biased so I'd get a second opinion. That said, if you're comfortable playing Terran then playing the other races may be difficult for you as each race is quite different. (Duh!) If I were to guess, I would say Protoss is the "easiest" race, but they're a mystery to me so I can't really say. Again, get a second opinion on this. I also would say that this is highly subjective anyways, so I wouldn't get too worked up about it.
- I don't know what I would say personally about build orders, but I believe the common consensus is that for each match up you should have a build order and just practice that. I think what might be better though would be to have a "plan" for each match up. E.g., my plan for TvZ is to end up with Hellbats, Thors and Liberators. (Very, very loose play by the way, you can have more detailed plans than this!) Having a plan is certainly more vague than having a build order (So it might be better to go for a build order) but I would argue that it's better to have a plan than no plan at all.
- Playing against the A.I. is a GREAT way to test out build orders and practice macro or do other exercises. Of course it doesn't give you "ladder experience", and the only way to get that is to play on the ladder, but I do think playing against A.I. can help your fundamentals!
- Again, I honestly think the best thing you can do is to just have fun. Everything will follow if you're playing the game for a good time, but always feel free to ask for advice or suggestions! I know Team Liquid has helped me a lot over the years for StarCraft II. Never be afraid to ask anything!
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On June 17 2016 08:41 Frudgey wrote:
Before I say anything, I firmly believe that the best way to improve is to play what you think is fun and the rest will follow through.
So if you like Bio, keep playing Bio! Sure it might be challenging, but if it's the most fun for you, then enjoy playing it the most - and then you'll just get better at it. Same thing happened with me and mech. I play mech in all three match ups because I think it's the most fun and not because it's the most powerful. But because I play mech so much I'm better at playing TvP mech than TvP Bio!
But enough about me! Let's answer some of your questions!
- I would say that Terran is the most "challenging" race, though I would call myself biased so I'd get a second opinion. That said, if you're comfortable playing Terran then playing the other races may be difficult for you as each race is quite different. (Duh!) If I were to guess, I would say Protoss is the "easiest" race, but they're a mystery to me so I can't really say. Again, get a second opinion on this. I also would say that this is highly subjective anyways, so I wouldn't get too worked up about it.
- I don't know what I would say personally about build orders, but I believe the common consensus is that for each match up you should have a build order and just practice that. I think what might be better though would be to have a "plan" for each match up. E.g., my plan for TvZ is to end up with Hellbats, Thors and Liberators. (Very, very loose play by the way, you can have more detailed plans than this!) Having a plan is certainly more vague than having a build order (So it might be better to go for a build order) but I would argue that it's better to have a plan than no plan at all.
- Playing against the A.I. is a GREAT way to test out build orders and practice macro or do other exercises. Of course it doesn't give you "ladder experience", and the only way to get that is to play on the ladder, but I do think playing against A.I. can help your fundamentals!
- Again, I honestly think the best thing you can do is to just have fun. Everything will follow if you're playing the game for a good time, but always feel free to ask for advice or suggestions! I know Team Liquid has helped me a lot over the years for StarCraft II. Never be afraid to ask anything!
Thank you!! Where can I find some build orders? What is an effective way to keep scouting with Terran against all races? Have map control against each race?
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MINES vs ZERG regardless
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Is it just me or are all Zergs now transitioning back to ling banes?
Tanks are not helping so I'm back to hots style mmm, along with drilling claws working surprisingly well against ultras late game.
So my first question is
Can mmm be a style against roach ravager compositions also?
And my second question is
Can mines be used along with liberators also against late game TvZ againsy ultralisks?
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On June 30 2016 04:41 buchh wrote:
MINES vs ZERG regardless
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Is it just me or are all Zergs now transitioning back to ling banes?
Tanks are not helping so I'm back to hots style mmm, along with drilling claws working surprisingly well against ultras late game.
So my first question is
Can mmm be a style against roach ravager compositions also?
And my second question is
Can mines be used along with liberators also against late game TvZ againsy ultralisks?
I've been playing pure bio against Roach Ravager and bio mine against LBM to great success. Mines are my primary counter to ultralisks these days, even going up to three fact double reactor, often skipping libs entirely since corruptors / vipers counter them so hard. I find its better to just keep the pressure on with mass bio than try to beat ultralisks head on.
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Why do people make tons of Infestors but I never see Pathogen Glands researched anymore?
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Does anyone know numerical value of adept shade's movement speed? I couldn't find it in-game or liquipedia.
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On June 30 2016 05:31 Coffeeling wrote:
Why do people make tons of Infestors but I never see Pathogen Glands researched anymore?
Usually making infestors without the glands means you want a few of them at a timing, so you don't bother with the time and cost of the upgrade. Also you are then extra careful not to lose them.
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Do people use the camera hotkeys and what do you set them to? Do people use the 'check event' button that's normally set to spacebar I think?
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EPT
