On March 29 2013 14:31 ApacheIIS wrote: I dealt with a terran today that turtled in his base with siege tanks, turrets, mines, vikings, and a few marines/bunkers. What is the best way to handle this and to end the game as quickly as possible as a terran player? I had a match that went for over an hour today trying to deal with this as I just couldn't get in. I ended up containing him but it just went on too long.
Edit: Sorry I should have put this in the terran strategy thread? Bad first post on the site
DAT FEEL. when you ling bane roach all in a toss and then they sit at their ramp with 6 centries...................... and you get trolled for another 30 minutes. you did the right thing in that you expanded and took the whole map. but you should have gone for more beefy units. you could have thrown down like 50 rax and 50 tech labs and just thrown marauders at him and you had the right idea with the battle cruisers but you only made a few. you should have traded marines, and popped out a lot more battle cruisers. you were a mostly marine army, vs siege tanks, mines, and banshees. you really could have done whatever you wanted. that was your only mistake, making lots of marines and losing a few drops. Its always better to just take the map and add on a lot more tech buildinds, get upgrades, its boring as hell but if you get too impatient and lose your whole army, he can counter and then youll REALLY feel dumb. youll learn later when your THAT far ahead, you really can just rally beefy units in and roll him over. but i would suggest just keep doing what your doing and dont take chances till you fully understand how to break a turtling player.
Thanks for your tips. Generally speaking currently I find I am pretty bad at transitioning into a late game strategy (I usually lose late game at the moment) so I need to practice that. It should help with transitioning into more suitable units to take on a turtle also. I have a feeling when he was trash talking me telling me to finish it he knew if I rushed him I'd lose my army.
Btw yeah my drops were pretty terrible that match, they did me no favours other than scaring him into being defensive. After those failed drops I'm sure he could have won if he moved out.
Question: I'm a lowly plat player and have a question about the metagame in zvz, which is muta vs muta seemingly 90% of the time. I've been doing a two base +1 speed roach timing that completely shuts down muta play. When I'm starting to get decent saturation, I take my gases, drone, get a lair and an evo chamber, start +1 missile, get a roach warren, make overlords, get roach speed, make a couple dozen roaches and the upgrades finish and the roaches arrive at his or her base just a few seconds before mutas come out. The roaches almost always do terrible damage, at least taking out an expansion and killing a bunch of drones. Because mutas aren't efficient at killing roaches, I can get a third, spore crawlers and a hydra den behind this and am in a terrific position.
The question: why doesn't this work in higher leagues? Are my opponents just not macroing good enough? Should they not be attacking my roaches? Should they be scouting better? I ask out of pure curiosity because this seems to work very well for me in my low league...
As the title of the video says: patrol split. You tell your marines to patrol away from the banelings and they split "automatically. This works because units that are on patrol start attacking as soon as an enemy gets in range. Other than that, it's just sick micro, which can be practiced.
On March 30 2013 03:37 TsogdrukRangdrol wrote: Question: I'm a lowly plat player and have a question about the metagame in zvz, which is muta vs muta seemingly 90% of the time. I've been doing a two base +1 speed roach timing that completely shuts down muta play. When I'm starting to get decent saturation, I take my gases, drone, get a lair and an evo chamber, start +1 missile, get a roach warren, make overlords, get roach speed, make a couple dozen roaches and the upgrades finish and the roaches arrive at his or her base just a few seconds before mutas come out. The roaches almost always do terrible damage, at least taking out an expansion and killing a bunch of drones. Because mutas aren't efficient at killing roaches, I can get a third, spore crawlers and a hydra den behind this and am in a terrific position.
The question: why doesn't this work in higher leagues? Are my opponents just not macroing good enough? Should they not be attacking my roaches? Should they be scouting better? I ask out of pure curiosity because this seems to work very well for me in my low league...
if your roach warren gets scouted. it can be easily stopped by spines/speed lings. if you scout a roach timing push, you should be making more spines/lings. not really trying to rush out mutas. once the mutas are out (even if delayed) you get total map control and you can pressure/take your own 3rd. (atleast thats how i deal with it and it works for me up to masters in WOL. i am high diamond in HOTS ) In WOL you could do this into infestors. the reason it doesnt work anymore is because its almost impossible to defend mutas/take a third with infestors. even with hydras its REALLY REALLY hard to defend or get any kind of map control vs mutas. i wish i could add a replay but i havent even tried it in a while i tried so many things when i first got the game cuz i used to do it a lot in WOL. I tried, roach/hydray, roach/queen, roach infestor. and none of it worked vs a good muta player.
this video is cute ^_^ but yeah its a joke. the automaton 2000 is a machine. humans cant split like that. even with the "patrol" technique, it just cant be done. I posted an answer a few days ago where some guy was asking if some dude was hacking. and my answer was "yes" lol
[/QOUTE]Theres a trick ive seen terran players do where they use the patrol command to get the marines to move back and when in range, one by one they turn and fire. but not even marine kings splits look like that.
How much does APM really matter? I'm just getting into the multiplayer for SC2, or I am at least trying to, and I noticed that my average APM for the first game was 121. Admittedly, most of this was from spamming marines out of my barracks control group, but I'm not sure about how to determine if this is a true measure, or what to do with this number.
On March 30 2013 13:20 Pretzul wrote: How much does APM really matter? I'm just getting into the multiplayer for SC2, or I am at least trying to, and I noticed that my average APM for the first game was 121. Admittedly, most of this was from spamming marines out of my barracks control group, but I'm not sure about how to determine if this is a true measure, or what to do with this number.
APM is a tricky debate. in theory, higher apm = more actions = more things you can do at once, but it is not always the case. a high APM that is used correctly without wasteful actions is certainly an indicator of skill, but simply spamming to get a high APM has nothing to do with skill or ability.
I see a ton of threads about hotkey layouts here on TL. Does the hotkey layout really make much of a difference? Many pros seem to still use standard layout or rarely even completely weird setups. EDIT: When I talk about 'difference' I do not mean that I suddenly become a better player (which is not true at all) but rather whether the difference in comfort is actually noticeable.
On March 30 2013 13:20 Pretzul wrote: How much does APM really matter? I'm just getting into the multiplayer for SC2, or I am at least trying to, and I noticed that my average APM for the first game was 121. Admittedly, most of this was from spamming marines out of my barracks control group, but I'm not sure about how to determine if this is a true measure, or what to do with this number.
You need a certain APM to play the game depending on your race and strategy. Obviously, if you are faster, it gives you the possibility to play better. BUT don't focus too much on APM. Spamming will actually cause you to play worse without making you faster overall. In the end, APM is just one part of the game that does not even make a proper statement about the efficiency and usefullness of your actions but simply the speed. You can definitely be in grandmaster with less than 150 APM. But obviously higher APM is still better. However, don't waste time and thought on it, a high APM will come by itself through enough practice. And with APM alone you can't win games.
On Korhal City, if you kill the collapsable rocks that block the 3rd/4th when an expansion is already built there, does it crush the hatchery/nexus/cc?
On March 31 2013 03:14 YumYumGranola wrote: On Korhal City, if you kill the collapsable rocks that block the 3rd/4th when an expansion is already built there, does it crush the hatchery/nexus/cc?
Collapsible rocks deal 500 damage to everything they land on. So it will not kill a town hall unless it has less than 500 hp (usually 1/3 or 1/4 of full hp, depending on the building).
If i nexus first, and have 16 probes mining minerals in my main, and 0 at my natural, should i send some from my main to my nat and then rally the nexus's normally, or not send any to my nat and rally both nexus to the nat while leaving 16 in my main. Which is more efficient?
Quick question: How did they nerf the infestor? As a Terran player I'm really glad zerg players don't use infestors anymore but what made it so weak now that most players prefer the flying thing over an infestor?
On March 31 2013 17:31 deanyo wrote: If i nexus first, and have 16 probes mining minerals in my main, and 0 at my natural, should i send some from my main to my nat and then rally the nexus's normally, or not send any to my nat and rally both nexus to the nat while leaving 16 in my main. Which is more efficient?
Rally to your natural once you have 16 probes since that is the optimum number, anything over that gives you slightly faster income but you would rather have them at your nat. Anything over 24 is over saturated.
I asked this questions a few pages back, but no one bit, so I try again.
I'm wondering the most effective way to target siege tanks on infestors and banes during a battle. Do you just spam right click on every small group you see or what?
On March 30 2013 23:58 Luzian wrote: I see a ton of threads about hotkey layouts here on TL. Does the hotkey layout really make much of a difference? Many pros seem to still use standard layout or rarely even completely weird setups. EDIT: When I talk about 'difference' I do not mean that I suddenly become a better player (which is not true at all) but rather whether the difference in comfort is actually noticeable.
It's not exactly something that's necessary, however it does just simply allow you to be slightly faster in your actions. I can imagine if you don't know what to do with the actions it won't make a difference. Also, as for the difference in comfort, I personally find it actually makes a large difference. It's just so much easier to move my finger 1/2 keys across rather than across the whole keyboard in alot of cases.
EPT
and you had the right idea with the battle cruisers but you only made a few. you should have traded marines, and popped out a lot more battle cruisers. you were a mostly marine army, vs siege tanks, mines, and banshees. you really could have done whatever you wanted. that was your only mistake, making lots of marines and losing a few drops. Its always better to just take the map and add on a lot more tech buildinds, get upgrades, its boring as hell but if you get too impatient and lose your whole army, he can counter and then youll REALLY feel dumb. youll learn later when your THAT far ahead, you really can just rally beefy units in and roll him over. but i would suggest just keep doing what your doing and dont take chances till you fully understand how to break a turtling player. 
