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On April 30 2012 02:51 ArcticRaven wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2012 21:11 VoirDire wrote:On April 29 2012 20:30 Prillan wrote:On April 29 2012 19:55 VoirDire wrote:On April 29 2012 19:16 ArcticRaven wrote:
In ZvP, when should i get my hive after a 3-hatch build ? With the first 100 gas. About ~7:00. I think he both need a lair and an infestation pit before that ^^ Oh, yea :D I read Lair, sorry. My way of doing it is when P manages to get his 3rd up, first take a 4th and then tech to hive. Ok thanks a lot ! But, although this might not be a simple question, why at this moment in particular ?
Because zerg can delay protoss 3rd very long by just churning out roaches in the midgame. But when P reaches a critical amount of sentries to defend his 3rd, roaches can't really do much.
In this stage of the game, P can't really attack either. Sentries can't really go on the offensive themselves and P needs some time to build infrastructure to accommodate his 3rd base income as well as getting some higher tier tech to be able to fight zerg from a supply disadvantage.
This is a good time to expand and start teching to infestor/brood lord.
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On April 30 2012 05:06 haaz wrote:
What are the weakness of playing gas first reactor hellion opening in each matchups?
It's a sure tell (especially since you won't have a marine to chase away a scouting worker) and not that hard to defend against if you know it's coming. It also delays your first orbital command so you'll be behind in eco.
The build has some uses 2on2 though.
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What would you all consider a good robo build that can defend a four gate? I'm only a plat player and I have to stop 4 gating myself and I am a fan of immortals. I read some builds but they all seem to be too dependant on perfect/near perfect execution and I'm just looking for a build with some "cushion" space.
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On April 30 2012 02:22 ibo422 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2012 18:49 Drowzee wrote:
simple question:
is it possible to defend a 4rax marine scv all-in (no gas) when going 1gate fe as protoss?
im struggling so hard with this. i scout no gas so i go 1gate fe. stalker scouts bunker at his natural so i have to expect a command center (which isn't the case). when i see him move along the middle of the map with his whole supply i have like 1 zealot, 1 sentry, 1 stalker and just completing 3 gateways.
to constant warp in sentries and constant force field my ramp don't work for me, because i don't have enough gas,
so: is it possible to defend with 1gate fe?
edit: platinum - low diamond range I could use some advice on this either.
Preferably you scout this a lot earlier than that. Pay attention when you scout his base, look for any SCV cuts, count his SCVs and see if it's at a reasonable number (he should have 14 mining when the barracks completes / orbital starts). Park a unit outside his base to see his push out asap.
Assuming you scout this last minute as you described:
It largely depends on the type of 1gate fe you chose. There are so many variants, some more greedy than others. Ultimately the answer to your question is Stalkers, and good micro. Engage him as soon as you can with your Stalkers and kite the hell out of him.
Note: Marines and SCVs both have 45hp, but one does significantly more damage. Focus fire appropriately where possible.
Some micro tips:
1. When you are forced to pull all your probes (make sure you do this preemptively, not after all your units are dead!), try to get a mineral walk on him to surround his marines. His SCVs are just tanks, marines are the dps units.
2. If possible, cancel your nexus and full wall your ramp with gateways. Shoot him from behind your wall with Stalker/Sentry.
3. If you already have a Sentry out, use the forcefield to buy you time. Don't try to get another Sentry out, get as many Stalkers as possible.
Basically, as soon as you know what's up (including scouting this absolutely last minute) do not warp in Sentries, you want Stalkers.
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Hi All,
Zerg player here ^_^
It's been a while since I last played (1.5-2yrs) and I've just started getting into SC2 again. What I've noticed is that quite a few builds have changed and it's switched to a lot more macro style by both Terran and especially protoss going FFE almost every game. Also I've noticed Zergs get their third INSANELY fast now..
Now what I'm wondering is if someone would be able to lay down some timings when I should expect these pushes from protoss and terran and what their popular builds are. For example I noticed protoss like to do a heavy gateway/immortal push at about 8:00min, but I am still unsure on when I should be preparing for other things such as reactor helions / banshees marine/tank push etc.
If someone would be so kind to mention these timings when T / P like to push out and what I should be scouting for to recognise which build they're going I'd greatly appreciate it ^_^
Thank you!!
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On April 30 2012 17:16 qwerty09 wrote:
Hi All,
Zerg player here ^_^
It's been a while since I last played (1.5-2yrs) and I've just started getting into SC2 again. What I've noticed is that quite a few builds have changed and it's switched to a lot more macro style by both Terran and especially protoss going FFE almost every game. Also I've noticed Zergs get their third INSANELY fast now..
Now what I'm wondering is if someone would be able to lay down some timings when I should expect these pushes from protoss and terran and what their popular builds are. For example I noticed protoss like to do a heavy gateway/immortal push at about 8:00min, but I am still unsure on when I should be preparing for other things such as reactor helions / banshees marine/tank push etc.
If someone would be so kind to mention these timings when T / P like to push out and what I should be scouting for to recognise which build they're going I'd greatly appreciate it ^_^
Thank you!!
That's not really a simple question with a simple answer, but I'll try to give you a very simple answer for PvZ:
The current standard is for P to FFE and Z to get a gasless fast third (or Roach/Ling all-in). The third goes down between 4 and 5 minutes. Protoss commonly tries some kind of pressure to force units and/or delay or destroy the third. This is defended with Queens and Spores if Protoss is going air, otherwise by dropping a Roach Warren and Evo Chamber at 7 minutes, which gets your first batch of Roaches out just in time to handle pressure that comes as Warp Gate finishes. The fast third lets Zerg do a maxed-out Roach timing attack at around 12 minutes. The flow of the rest of the game is determined by how much damage that attack is able to do (there's no clear consensus at the moment as to what the correct response to the 12-minute Roach timing is, but if you look around you can find lots of threads debating it).
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I'm having TvP problems. I go gasless FE into 3 rax, 2 medivac push @ 10 minutes (with stim, +1 and conc).
Let's say I scout double gas. I find no expansion. I scan at 6 minutes, and see only 2 gates. So I assume tech... what do I do? Could be blink stalkers. Could be DTs. Could be colossi. Because the tech is hidden, I have no clue what he's going for (and I don't have the luxury of spending 3-4 scans trying to locate his hidden tech, as that means I have no units to hold it off with). How do I react to this?
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Does anyone have a link to a replay of a protoss beating a 7RR after a FFE? Preferably from a pro player? (but any masters+ works)
I'm creating a video on FFE and the different things to watch out for I need a decent replay to go over the defence on.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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hey everyone i missed like 3 seasons on ladder in a row because of school and i haven't really had time to watch any SC either. =c( good news is that summer is upon us.lol. i like to play an aggressive style of zerg so my questions are as follow
1.) does any one have or can find replays of a solid FE with lots of roach baneling aggression vs terran
2.) does anyone have or can find replays of an aggressive muta build vs toss
3.) whats the meta game for zvz right now?.lol.
4.) last nut bot least anyone know of a streaming zerg player who plays really aggressive ?
thanks for all the help in advanced! hf gl!
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Hey guys, question about pvp. I"m getting sick of collosi wars nowadays in pvp and how a 15 min game builds to a 15 sec engagement and all and how for most of the game, its simply macro and get colli. I'm getting bored of that. What sort of builds are there that I can do that are micro-intensive without being all-in (i.e please don't say 4-gate, its too easy to hold and depends on my opponent to screw up for me to win). I'm just looking for openings or builds that place an emphasis on micro. It doesn't have to win me the game, just allow me to micro. Also, along that same vein, what can I do midgame that allows for some micro?
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Why do top level zergs typically 15 hatch in ZvT, as opposed to 16 hatch? I personally like 16 hatch because I don't need to stall drone production.
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I did some testing for repairs as Terran.
The more SCVs are repairing a building the more expensive it becomes to do so.
I've tested this on Planetary fortress, auto-turrets, ravens and mules.
This is true for both minerals and gas.
I can't find any posts or articles relating to this topic.
My question: is this intentional or just a bug of the repair function?
This isn't a very complicated question, but might not be simple to answer, so not sure it belongs here.
Tips would be appreciated.
Edit: Please PM me if you have an answer.
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On May 01 2012 08:59 FalconPunch wrote:
Why do top level zergs typically 15 hatch in ZvT, as opposed to 16 hatch? I personally like 16 hatch because I don't need to stall drone production.
Most pro zergs will go 14 or 15 hatch in ZvT because it is much safer against early pressures.
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On May 01 2012 09:24 MrCash wrote:
I did some testing for repairs as Terran.
The more SCVs are repairing a building the more expensive it becomes to do so.
I've tested this on Planetary fortress, auto-turrets, ravens and mules.
This is true for both minerals and gas.
I can't find any posts or articles relating to this topic.
My question: is this intentional or just a bug of the repair function?
This isn't a very complicated question, but might not be simple to answer, so not sure it belongs here.
Tips would be appreciated.
Edit: Please PM me if you have an answer.
You mean that if you have 2 SCVs repairing it costs twice as much? Or that the price per SCV goes up as you add more SCVs? If the first, there are no topics on it because it is obvious that that would be the case. If it's the second, maybe no one has realized it. I certainly am under the impression that the cost of repairing is just a function of the number of HP that you repair and not the number of SCVs doing the repairing.
If you think you've found something new, make a replay demonstrating it and put together a thread!
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On May 01 2012 08:59 FalconPunch wrote:
Why do top level zergs typically 15 hatch in ZvT, as opposed to 16 hatch? I personally like 16 hatch because I don't need to stall drone production.
An earlier hatch means earlier creep spread and drones earlier in position if you need them to repel bunkers.
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On May 01 2012 18:45 AmericanUmlaut wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 09:24 MrCash wrote:
I did some testing for repairs as Terran.
The more SCVs are repairing a building the more expensive it becomes to do so.
I've tested this on Planetary fortress, auto-turrets, ravens and mules.
This is true for both minerals and gas.
I can't find any posts or articles relating to this topic.
My question: is this intentional or just a bug of the repair function?
This isn't a very complicated question, but might not be simple to answer, so not sure it belongs here.
Tips would be appreciated.
Edit: Please PM me if you have an answer. You mean that if you have 2 SCVs repairing it costs twice as much? Or that the price per SCV goes up as you add more SCVs? If the first, there are no topics on it because it is obvious that that would be the case. If it's the second, maybe no one has realized it. I certainly am under the impression that the cost of repairing is just a function of the number of HP that you repair and not the number of SCVs doing the repairing. If you think you've found something new, make a replay demonstrating it and put together a thread!
The cost doesn't double, the difference is more or less negligible.
It costs a tiny bit more to have more SCVs on repair.
Rough example: 500 hp of a PF to repair by 1 SCV costs ~18 mins and ~46 gas (which is also way different from Liquipedia article) and 10 SCVs repairing 500 hp would cost 20 mins and 50 gas.
I didn't save the exact numbers, but this idea is true of everything I tried this on.
The issue isn't the severity of cost, but it's accuracy and intention. Whether this is a bug/side effect or intended and simply not published.
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On May 01 2012 08:07 mahi29 wrote:
Hey guys, question about pvp. I"m getting sick of collosi wars nowadays in pvp and how a 15 min game builds to a 15 sec engagement and all and how for most of the game, its simply macro and get colli. I'm getting bored of that. What sort of builds are there that I can do that are micro-intensive without being all-in (i.e please don't say 4-gate, its too easy to hold and depends on my opponent to screw up for me to win). I'm just looking for openings or builds that place an emphasis on micro. It doesn't have to win me the game, just allow me to micro. Also, along that same vein, what can I do midgame that allows for some micro?
Might I suggest some Void Ray focused Stargate play? Void Rays are excellent against Colossi given that they do extra damage to armored and massive targets, of which the Colossus is both. The Void Ray's need to charge up, ability to fire while moving, and ability to move back while maintaining fire is very conducive to a focus on micro.
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On May 02 2012 00:20 MrCash wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 18:45 AmericanUmlaut wrote:On May 01 2012 09:24 MrCash wrote:
I did some testing for repairs as Terran.
The more SCVs are repairing a building the more expensive it becomes to do so.
I've tested this on Planetary fortress, auto-turrets, ravens and mules.
This is true for both minerals and gas.
I can't find any posts or articles relating to this topic.
My question: is this intentional or just a bug of the repair function?
This isn't a very complicated question, but might not be simple to answer, so not sure it belongs here.
Tips would be appreciated.
Edit: Please PM me if you have an answer. You mean that if you have 2 SCVs repairing it costs twice as much? Or that the price per SCV goes up as you add more SCVs? If the first, there are no topics on it because it is obvious that that would be the case. If it's the second, maybe no one has realized it. I certainly am under the impression that the cost of repairing is just a function of the number of HP that you repair and not the number of SCVs doing the repairing. If you think you've found something new, make a replay demonstrating it and put together a thread! The cost doesn't double, the difference is more or less negligible. It costs a tiny bit more to have more SCVs on repair. Rough example: 500 hp of a PF to repair by 1 SCV costs ~18 mins and ~46 gas (which is also way different from Liquipedia article) and 10 SCVs repairing 500 hp would cost 20 mins and 50 gas. I didn't save the exact numbers, but this idea is true of everything I tried this on. The issue isn't the severity of cost, but it's accuracy and intention. Whether this is a bug/side effect or intended and simply not published.
Repair has easily calculable times and costs. To repair a unit to full health from 1 HP, it takes 25% of the minerals and gas that it cost to build the unit. If the unit is only 50% damaged, then it only costs half of what it would to repair it from 1 HP. The Repair time from 1HP is the same as the unit's build time and also scales based on how damaged the unit is. Having multiple SCV's working just increases the rate at while repairing is done, there is no penalty for doing so. See the Liquipedia page on Repair.
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EPT
