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Snoodles
Profile Joined March 2012
401 Posts
May 01 2012 15:41 GMT
#12361
If you're a terran getting 4gated, how do you prioritize what units to kill first? Sentries first or zealots? Stalkres?
Hulavuta
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States1252 Posts
May 01 2012 16:31 GMT
#12362
Is it realistic to have creep spread to my third by the time it's time to take it in ZvT or ZvP?
Done with Team Liquid for a while. Don't expect to find me here.
Boiler Bandsman
Profile Joined February 2012
United States391 Posts
May 01 2012 17:24 GMT
#12363
On May 02 2012 00:41 Snoodles wrote:
If you're a terran getting 4gated, how do you prioritize what units to kill first? Sentries first or zealots? Stalkres?


All of this applies to all gateway pressure, not just 4gates. That said, it depends on the situation.

When the toss is coming in for the kill, you want to go for zealots first, then any sentries with guardian shield you can reach easily, then stalkers, then the rest of the sentries. The reason for this is that zealots have raw dps that you just can't take, and guardian shield knocks your marine damage back by 33%. After that, the stalkers are the main dps in the protoss army. The sentries won't be able to run away because of their speed, and do they have hardly any damage output, so if you clean up the stalkers you'll get the sentries too.

Once the initial surge of the push abates and you feel like it's headed for the long game, try to snipe sentries while still avoiding zealot hits. Sentries are gas-intensive, and they also gain power as they build energy. Sniping them early on prevents this, and also forces the toss to make a gas choice between replenishing his sentries and teching.
A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head.
Iyerbeth
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
England2410 Posts
May 01 2012 17:29 GMT
#12364
On May 02 2012 01:31 Hulavuta wrote:
Is it realistic to have creep spread to my third by the time it's time to take it in ZvT or ZvP?


ZvP: If you're doing a fast third (like he FFE's, you respond with a third) then no, but otherwise absolutely, yes. On most maps it'd only be 2-4 from your natural to your third, so that really isn't long, especially if you have a creep Queen out (which can be used for your third if you'd like).

ZvT: Hellion harass is pretty much standard these days, and against a Terran who knows what they're doing you will have to figth to extend your creep, moving crawlers forwards and protecting your tumours with Queens or Lings/Roaches. With no pressue and a standard third timing though, on most maps you should be able to get very close to connected by the time you take it.
♥ Liquid`Sheth ♥ Liquid`TLO ♥
MrCash
Profile Joined October 2011
United States1504 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-01 19:28:34
May 01 2012 19:26 GMT
#12365
On May 02 2012 00:33 Attribute wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 02 2012 00:20 MrCash wrote:
On May 01 2012 18:45 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
On May 01 2012 09:24 MrCash wrote:
I did some testing for repairs as Terran.
The more SCVs are repairing a building the more expensive it becomes to do so.
I've tested this on Planetary fortress, auto-turrets, ravens and mules.
This is true for both minerals and gas.

I can't find any posts or articles relating to this topic.
My question: is this intentional or just a bug of the repair function?

This isn't a very complicated question, but might not be simple to answer, so not sure it belongs here.
Tips would be appreciated.
Edit: Please PM me if you have an answer.

You mean that if you have 2 SCVs repairing it costs twice as much? Or that the price per SCV goes up as you add more SCVs? If the first, there are no topics on it because it is obvious that that would be the case. If it's the second, maybe no one has realized it. I certainly am under the impression that the cost of repairing is just a function of the number of HP that you repair and not the number of SCVs doing the repairing.

If you think you've found something new, make a replay demonstrating it and put together a thread!


The cost doesn't double, the difference is more or less negligible.
It costs a tiny bit more to have more SCVs on repair.
Rough example: 500 hp of a PF to repair by 1 SCV costs ~18 mins and ~46 gas (which is also way different from Liquipedia article) and 10 SCVs repairing 500 hp would cost 20 mins and 50 gas.
I didn't save the exact numbers, but this idea is true of everything I tried this on.
The issue isn't the severity of cost, but it's accuracy and intention. Whether this is a bug/side effect or intended and simply not published.

Repair has easily calculable times and costs. To repair a unit to full health from 1 HP, it takes 25% of the minerals and gas that it cost to build the unit. If the unit is only 50% damaged, then it only costs half of what it would to repair it from 1 HP. The Repair time from 1HP is the same as the unit's build time and also scales based on how damaged the unit is. Having multiple SCV's working just increases the rate at while repairing is done, there is no penalty for doing so. See the Liquipedia page on Repair.


You really didn't seem to read the post at all.
The whole point is that article is not universally correct.
Depending on how many SCVs are repairing, the cost doesn't stay the same. The time it takes to repair is not the only thing that changes when you add SCVs to repair, the cost goes up as well.
Also that calculation doesn't seem to apply to everything. For example the PF costs more gas to repair than mineral. The CC cost is 400, upgrade is 150/150. It costs more than double the gas to repair than minerals. This is true regardless of how many SCVs are repairing.
Mossen
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
43 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-01 20:49:08
May 01 2012 20:47 GMT
#12366
Is there a setting, mod or custom map that will enable me to zoom out the camera more? Whenever I start the game I feel like I'm playing at 640x480. The visible battle area just isn't big enough.
AyahuascaSage
Profile Joined January 2011
31 Posts
May 01 2012 21:08 GMT
#12367
On May 02 2012 05:47 Mossen wrote:
Is there a setting, mod or custom map that will enable me to zoom out the camera more? Whenever I start the game I feel like I'm playing at 640x480. The visible battle area just isn't big enough.


I have no idea about normal play on Bnet but it seems like the type of play modification that could be banned, however I remember playing some icjug maps that allowed you to zoom out as spectator but even then I don't think you could when you were playing.
PinheadXXXXXX
Profile Joined February 2012
United States897 Posts
May 01 2012 23:22 GMT
#12368
How much of a better economy does command center first actually give you compared to a 1rax gasless expand?
Taeja the one true Byunjwa~
InvincibleRice
Profile Joined March 2011
United States38 Posts
May 02 2012 01:08 GMT
#12369
Timing questions:
What is the fastest possible:
banshee
-cloaked banshee
banshee from 13gas
-cloakshee from 13gas
3hellion drop

Simple question:
What is the advantage of a low ground walloff as T?
At what point (in terms of marines sent) does a 12/14 2rax in TvZ become allin?
ibo422
Profile Joined April 2012
Belgium2844 Posts
May 02 2012 02:21 GMT
#12370
On April 30 2012 17:15 tuestresfat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 30 2012 02:22 ibo422 wrote:
On April 29 2012 18:49 Drowzee wrote:
simple question:
is it possible to defend a 4rax marine scv all-in (no gas) when going 1gate fe as protoss?
im struggling so hard with this. i scout no gas so i go 1gate fe. stalker scouts bunker at his natural so i have to expect a command center (which isn't the case). when i see him move along the middle of the map with his whole supply i have like 1 zealot, 1 sentry, 1 stalker and just completing 3 gateways.
to constant warp in sentries and constant force field my ramp don't work for me, because i don't have enough gas,

so: is it possible to defend with 1gate fe?

edit: platinum - low diamond range


I could use some advice on this either.

Preferably you scout this a lot earlier than that. Pay attention when you scout his base, look for any SCV cuts, count his SCVs and see if it's at a reasonable number (he should have 14 mining when the barracks completes / orbital starts). Park a unit outside his base to see his push out asap.

Assuming you scout this last minute as you described:

It largely depends on the type of 1gate fe you chose. There are so many variants, some more greedy than others. Ultimately the answer to your question is Stalkers, and good micro. Engage him as soon as you can with your Stalkers and kite the hell out of him.

Note: Marines and SCVs both have 45hp, but one does significantly more damage. Focus fire appropriately where possible.

Some micro tips:
1. When you are forced to pull all your probes (make sure you do this preemptively, not after all your units are dead!), try to get a mineral walk on him to surround his marines. His SCVs are just tanks, marines are the dps units.
2. If possible, cancel your nexus and full wall your ramp with gateways. Shoot him from behind your wall with Stalker/Sentry.
3. If you already have a Sentry out, use the forcefield to buy you time. Don't try to get another Sentry out, get as many Stalkers as possible.

Basically, as soon as you know what's up (including scouting this absolutely last minute) do not warp in Sentries, you want Stalkers.


Thank you for the indepth reply. I do indeed warp in more sentries with the thought "to buy myself more time" and can't kite 5 marines & 8+ scvs with 1-2 stalkers. I might try 1 gate expo again soon.
Schaudenfraud
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
United States38 Posts
May 02 2012 03:55 GMT
#12371
How many drones should i put on a pylon on my nat considering that i went 14-16 hatch then 14 pool and it seems like the probe ran away?
Mattson
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Canada188 Posts
May 02 2012 04:09 GMT
#12372
What are the pros/cons to setting your mousewheel to mouse 1?

Do you set mwheelup and down to mouse 1 or just mwheel up?
Cynicism isn't wisdom; it's a lazy way to say that you've been burned. Seems if anything you'd be less certain after everything you ever learned.
TheCasualGamer
Profile Joined March 2012
New Zealand15 Posts
May 02 2012 04:17 GMT
#12373
I know this is a really newbie question, and I apologise for that, but when you are zerg, what do the two rally points from your hatchery do? I've never actually known a use for them, I've always just set them out of habit and watching other people do it.
"My name is Jang JaeHo, I play Jerg"
Dingobloo
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Australia1903 Posts
May 02 2012 04:21 GMT
#12374
On May 02 2012 13:17 TheCasualGamer wrote:
I know this is a really newbie question, and I apologise for that, but when you are zerg, what do the two rally points from your hatchery do? I've never actually known a use for them, I've always just set them out of habit and watching other people do it.


One is for drones, the other is for units, the drone one will only be set if you click on a mineral patch, the unit one will be set if you press anywhere else.
Mattson
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Canada188 Posts
May 02 2012 04:23 GMT
#12375
On May 02 2012 13:17 TheCasualGamer wrote:
I know this is a really newbie question, and I apologise for that, but when you are zerg, what do the two rally points from your hatchery do? I've never actually known a use for them, I've always just set them out of habit and watching other people do it.


The yellow one is your drone rally point. When you have a hatchery selected, press G, and then click a mineral patch and all drones from that hatchery will go to where ever they're rallied.

It's helpful.
Cynicism isn't wisdom; it's a lazy way to say that you've been burned. Seems if anything you'd be less certain after everything you ever learned.
Snoodles
Profile Joined March 2012
401 Posts
May 02 2012 04:33 GMT
#12376
On May 02 2012 02:24 Boiler Bandsman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 02 2012 00:41 Snoodles wrote:
If you're a terran getting 4gated, how do you prioritize what units to kill first? Sentries first or zealots? Stalkres?


All of this applies to all gateway pressure, not just 4gates. That said, it depends on the situation.

When the toss is coming in for the kill, you want to go for zealots first, then any sentries with guardian shield you can reach easily, then stalkers, then the rest of the sentries. The reason for this is that zealots have raw dps that you just can't take, and guardian shield knocks your marine damage back by 33%. After that, the stalkers are the main dps in the protoss army. The sentries won't be able to run away because of their speed, and do they have hardly any damage output, so if you clean up the stalkers you'll get the sentries too.

Once the initial surge of the push abates and you feel like it's headed for the long game, try to snipe sentries while still avoiding zealot hits. Sentries are gas-intensive, and they also gain power as they build energy. Sniping them early on prevents this, and also forces the toss to make a gas choice between replenishing his sentries and teching.


Thanks boiler bandsman. I intuitively go for sentries because i know they cost 100 gas but I didn't realize that I should kill zealots first. Hopefully my armies will live longer now!
cyrexMF
Profile Joined May 2012
Latvia2 Posts
May 02 2012 05:32 GMT
#12377
9 pylon. Which probe should i take,at the mineral line or outgoing?Why sometimes probe whants to take minerals and only then build gateway etc.?
phiinix
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States1169 Posts
May 02 2012 05:41 GMT
#12378
On May 02 2012 14:32 cyrexMF wrote:
9 pylon. Which probe should i take,at the mineral line or outgoing?Why sometimes probe whants to take minerals and only then build gateway etc.?

#1: when you have 100 minerals. It's really not that important.
#2: Small thing, but where ever the probe builds the gateway, it will be close to the nexus then the mineral field, so it saves a little bit of time.

Neither of these will affect your game btw.
MessInTheRuins
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany35 Posts
May 02 2012 09:04 GMT
#12379
When I encounter a SCV building something, I sometimes cannot [A]ttack him to stop him from constructing. Is there any way via hotkeys to get my drone to attack the SCV?

tl;dr: cannot A-left click a scv in a building because its changing positions, how can I attack him?
Iyerbeth
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
England2410 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-02 09:23:51
May 02 2012 09:22 GMT
#12380
On May 02 2012 18:04 MessInTheRuins wrote:
When I encounter a SCV building something, I sometimes cannot [A]ttack him to stop him from constructing. Is there any way via hotkeys to get my drone to attack the SCV?

tl;dr: cannot A-left click a scv in a building because its changing positions, how can I attack him?


When you can a click on it, hold shift and spam attack move on it. As it moves, the drone will continue to attack it regardless, so long as it can get to the location.

On May 02 2012 12:55 Schaudenfraud wrote:
How many drones should i put on a pylon on my nat considering that i went 14-16 hatch then 14 pool and it seems like the probe ran away?


If you're worried about cannons, 4 per Pylon, if you think it's just to block you or force you to pull, then just wait for lings. Realisticially though, in ZvP a 15 pool first and expand with your lings coming faster is safer and since you can get an earlier Queen, it doesn't really hurt your eco.
♥ Liquid`Sheth ♥ Liquid`TLO ♥
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