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On October 19 2011 06:31 robbiek1 wrote:
In a ZvT, why do people always get broodlords over ultralisk? I find ultralisk just a little weaker, but they are cheaper, easier to build, and they work good against both mech and tank/marine.
And especially against mech, why do people get broodlords? Ultralisk make hellions useless, have 5 armor fully upgraded and they do extra damage versus armored.
In the current metagame, broods force a viking reaction out of terrans which you can either stuff with infestors or follow-up with a strong ground army. However, ultralisks are coming back into style in ZvT now that it is reasonable to use them in a remax situation. Just like zerglings though, they can range from ridiculously cost effective to super cost ineffective based on positioning and micro.
Pure straight-up mech simply does not have an answer for broods other than vikings. And it allows you to directly engage the mech ball, whereas even with the benefits that ultralisks confirm, straight up confrontation is a risky proposition (again, dependent on positioning and micro).
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On October 19 2011 05:35 Rk0 wrote:I have a LOT of trouble in ZvP I just cant do anything versus protoss as a zerg. They make 2 bases/3bases stay there all night long and when they finally head out they have hundrers of stalkers and 10 colussus trolling around, what to do? I tried zerg/roach/muta, roach/hydra/infest, roach/ling/infest combo but nothing seem to work. I am currently in gold and I dont promote because I keep losing to this imbalanced matchup. This game is a fucking joke and im currently pissed off. What to do versus a protoss that drinks tea till the 20 minute mark in their base? If any masters zerg/protoss could pm me with some coaching would be great because I am pretty clueless and attending a lan this weekend 
You may want to consider opening a help thread (and changing your attitude towards the game), but as general advice:
You say "What to do versus a protoss that drinks tea till the 20 minute mark" but it sounds like you're not awfully active either. You should always have some way to press aggression against a protoss other than a direct attack, when the protoss would likely win.
I didn't PM this because I don't know if someone else has helped you yet, so I didn't want to spam your inbox with something you have already been told. If you really want a coaching session... then I guess I could try but I've never been a particularly great teacher.
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I'm watching a PvT at the moment with standard marine/marauder/ghost/medivac with dual engineering bay versus a gateway/robo into templar composition. The outcome for the fights depends a lot on the upgrades and I thought the protoss could have an advantage in this. After all, he has the ability to use his observers to check for the exact moment the terran will have his upgrades kick in. Assuming the terran is diligent with continuing upgrades, if he spies on when 2/2 hits, he will also know exactly when 3/3 will hit.
I have honestly never heard of pros doing this, but can't they exploit these sort of timing windows?
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On October 19 2011 07:36 Grumbels wrote:
I'm watching a PvT at the moment with standard marine/marauder/ghost/medivac with dual engineering bay versus a gateway/robo into templar composition. The outcome for the fights depend a lot on the upgrades and I thought the protoss could have an advantage in this. After all, he has the ability to use his observers to check for the exact moment the terran will have his upgrades kick in. Assuming the terran is diligent with continuing upgrades, if he spies on when 2/2 hits, he will also know exactly when 3/3 will hit.
I have honestly never heard of pros doing this, but can't they exploit these sort of timing windows?
This may just be something that commentators just don't pick up on. I'd imagine that the higher up, more calculated players do this every game, but it isn't really something you would hear about without directly asking a player.
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On October 19 2011 07:36 Grumbels wrote:
I'm watching a PvT at the moment with standard marine/marauder/ghost/medivac with dual engineering bay versus a gateway/robo into templar composition. The outcome for the fights depends a lot on the upgrades and I thought the protoss could have an advantage in this. After all, he has the ability to use his observers to check for the exact moment the terran will have his upgrades kick in. Assuming the terran is diligent with continuing upgrades, if he spies on when 2/2 hits, he will also know exactly when 3/3 will hit.
I have honestly never heard of pros doing this, but can't they exploit these sort of timing windows?
I know that a lot of timing attacks are based around attacking as soon as an upgrade like 2/2 or 3/3 finishes. These sorts of attacks are used to exploit the fact that you have an upgrade that your opponent doesn't, so checking what upgrades your opponent gives you info on whether you would be able to win a fight. I'm sure that pros use this info all the time to figure out whether they should be aggressive or passive
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On October 19 2011 07:48 Soluhwin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2011 07:36 Grumbels wrote:
I'm watching a PvT at the moment with standard marine/marauder/ghost/medivac with dual engineering bay versus a gateway/robo into templar composition. The outcome for the fights depends a lot on the upgrades and I thought the protoss could have an advantage in this. After all, he has the ability to use his observers to check for the exact moment the terran will have his upgrades kick in. Assuming the terran is diligent with continuing upgrades, if he spies on when 2/2 hits, he will also know exactly when 3/3 will hit.
I have honestly never heard of pros doing this, but can't they exploit these sort of timing windows? This may just be something that commentators just don't pick up on. I'd imagine that the higher up, more calculated players do this every game, but it isn't really something you would hear about without directly asking a player.
See, this sounds like the exact type of skill that could separate the very best from the merely mechanically skilled, so it's a pity it's not something that ever comes up. You always hear about player X waiting for his upgrades, but never accounting for his opponent's, which are just as relevant.
I was watching NASL one time and I think Gretorp recalled an interview with DeMuslim where he said that he scouted his opponent's build and realized he could exploit a timing window in a game versus White-Ra when he had four medivacs, since his opponent wouldn't have storm yet. Gretorp was using this example to say how awesome and complex the game is and how supersmart the pros are, but I didn't think this example was impressive at all. Literally all DeMuslim needed to have done was to have one look at a replay of White-Ra and notice that he has a weakness just before storm hits, note this timing and use it in a game. I could have done the same thing, even if not on the same level.
Dynamically accounting for upgrades is a lot more complex and would require more skill, I think, so it's a pity casters and/or players don't draw so much attention to it. And of course it's possible too that the game is simply too young still for these kinds of things to be really relevant.
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Can you you use corruption to delay a morphing zerg building (hatch-> lair, spire -> g. spire, etc)?
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Not sure if it's been asked but when does a standard 2-base 6-gate timing usually hit a Zerg's base?
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Can you grav lift burrowed units?
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On October 19 2011 11:09 GinDo wrote:
Can you grav lift burrowed units?
Test it yourself in unit tester?? We're not your army... this is the strategy section
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Is Charge Zealot Immortal Phoenix viable in PvZ? From a fheorycrafting POV, it seems to be!
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On October 19 2011 14:44 ToastieNL wrote:
Is Charge Zealot Immortal Phoenix viable in PvZ? From a fheorycrafting POV, it seems to be!
As a composition it might be a little bit too mineral heavy, has very little upgrade synergy (ground/air weapon and armor split), Huge tech deviations as it dips into all 3 protoss techs and then infestors would be a huge issue as they can completely lock down the zealots, phoenix, and the infested terrans are quite good against immortals. It also doesn't feature any splash damage so hydra's might also be an issue.
Ultimately any composition is "viable" given the timing and how it operates within a strategy is well thought out, but there are certainly restrictions which make some better than others for your ultimate late game composition.
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On October 19 2011 15:01 Dingobloo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2011 14:44 ToastieNL wrote:
Is Charge Zealot Immortal Phoenix viable in PvZ? From a fheorycrafting POV, it seems to be! As a composition it might be a little bit too mineral heavy, has very little upgrade synergy (ground/air weapon and armor split), Huge tech deviations as it dips into all 3 protoss techs and then infestors would be a huge issue as they can completely lock down the zealots, phoenix, and the infested terrans are quite good against immortals. It also doesn't feature any splash damage so hydra's might also be an issue. Ultimately any composition is "viable" given the timing and how it operates within a strategy is well thought out, but there are certainly restrictions which make some better than others for your ultimate late game composition.
And what about:
6 gate into Zealot Archon + Obs, slowly adding Immortals. Using a big Zealot/Archon/Immortal push to take a 3rd and add Stargate for Phoenix. Archons solve the gas problem. I think it is actually very, very strong!?
As for the upgrade synergy, I would mostly rely on Ground upgrades, only Air Attack (sniping Overlords/Infestors/running roaches)? Might actually make a shield upgrade viable
(something like, +1 atk +1 armour + 1 air attack into +2 attack + 1 armor + 1 shield +2 air attack) Keeping the VR/Carrier transitioning open too!
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On October 19 2011 10:20 HollowCost wrote:
Not sure if it's been asked but when does a standard 2-base 6-gate timing usually hit a Zerg's base?
There are many variations with blink, different numbers of gates, and different forge upgrade timings, but the range for 6gate allins is usually around 9-11 minutes.
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On October 19 2011 15:23 ToastieNL wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2011 15:01 Dingobloo wrote:On October 19 2011 14:44 ToastieNL wrote:
Is Charge Zealot Immortal Phoenix viable in PvZ? From a fheorycrafting POV, it seems to be! As a composition it might be a little bit too mineral heavy, has very little upgrade synergy (ground/air weapon and armor split), Huge tech deviations as it dips into all 3 protoss techs and then infestors would be a huge issue as they can completely lock down the zealots, phoenix, and the infested terrans are quite good against immortals. It also doesn't feature any splash damage so hydra's might also be an issue. Ultimately any composition is "viable" given the timing and how it operates within a strategy is well thought out, but there are certainly restrictions which make some better than others for your ultimate late game composition. And what about: 6 gate into Zealot Archon + Obs, slowly adding Immortals. Using a big Zealot/Archon/Immortal push to take a 3rd and add Stargate for Phoenix. Archons solve the gas problem. I think it is actually very, very strong!? As for the upgrade synergy, I would mostly rely on Ground upgrades, only Air Attack (sniping Overlords/Infestors/running roaches)? Might actually make a shield upgrade viable (something like, +1 atk +1 armour + 1 air attack into +2 attack + 1 armor + 1 shield +2 air attack) Keeping the VR/Carrier transitioning open too!
This isn't a simple question with a simple answer. Develop your strategy, go play 20-30 games with it against a variety of Zerg strats, analyze how it works out and put together a strategy guide thread with replays and an explanation of your timings and transitions and why you think this strategy is strong.
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On October 13 2011 08:16 Karellen wrote:
is marine tank viking still viable in TvT?
It's the standard nowadays!
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Does guardian shield work like armor with regard to multipart attacks? So would a colossus under guardian shield actually take 4 less damage from a viking attack?
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On October 19 2011 16:31 hangarninetysix wrote:
Does guardian shield work like armor with regard to multipart attacks? So would a colossus under guardian shield actually take 4 less damage from a viking attack?
Yes.
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Not sure if simple question, but should be simple answer
Standard macro TvP, mmmgv, good EMPs into me trading very well against his army, but when i scan his nat to see if it is safe to bust in i see ~20 chargelots with nice ups. my army hp all halved and i realize I cant engage because chargelots will either rip my army apart or will take too much concentration to micro and i will mismacro too much so I pull back. Eventually I lose the game even with proper EMP/engagements because chargelots are just too much to deal with~_~
Question - How do you deal with chargelots as of current patch (post 4.0) ? BF hellions dont cut it anymore and Ill be damned to suddenly use them late game with no ups. Ghosts and their snipe sounds good on paper but just not efficient enough and the energy would be much better off EMPing. Yes, ofc, if you did proper harrassments and manage to absolutely destroy his main army with little losses this wont be a problem considering the zealots will be in small amounts.
My current take on this is to quickly switch to air and catch him off guard (spending warpgates on zealots = no real aa), or just to NOT play macro games properly against toss and just open with punishing builds that will guarantee an optimal midgame situation for me or just outright kill him.
Im also looking for ways to deal with protoss when both players just finished a huge engagement, heavy losses on both sides but because protoss can just spam chargelots and A click into your nat with low stalker/archon support, you either micro like a god or just lose the game because of this bullshit.
TL;DR: Play mmmvg macro game vs standard deathball toss with HT/archon later on. How to deal with the chargelots after engagement efficiently without huge army?
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Should I build 4 or 6 Hellions if i want to do a well timed Reactor Hellion FE in TvZ?
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EPT
